Mad Men, Season 7: Discussions, spoilers, reactions

[Jonas Grumby]

^Well, it's not all about money, or Don never would have had the votes to be kept around post-contract-breach.

That was more about who does and who doesn't want to see Jim Cutler's power increased. While I'm sure Roger and Pete (and likely Bert, too) personally like Don better than Jim, that vote was really about Don's proven record versus Jim Cutler's vision of an agency centered around Harry Crane and an IBM computer.

...Roger, Pete, and Bert were giving up a ton of cash to side with Don.

I'm sure they didn't see it that way. Roger, Pete and Bert know that Don is the kind of talent that makes an agency more profitable. Choosing that great, long-term financial advantage over the comparatively minor financial boost of splitting up Don's share doesn't make their votes for Don not about the money.

 

[gblews]

^Well, it's not all about money,

True, as Bert so eloquently pointed out to Roger in their little conversation in Bert's office. Even though he had just called Don a "pain in the ass" (as many great artists are), but explained that Don was a part of his team.

 

[BennieGamali]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5F9_7XyaQQ
The 60s!

 

[the G-man]

Since the season is over, I wanted to come back to this. All of the above is plausible, but I just don't think the show did a very good job of letting us know just why it was that she had SUCH animosity toward Harry being a partner....As Cos pointed out, most of the men in the office who have been there for a while have insulted Joan including the partners, well Don, Roger, and Bert, but the only one she is hostile toward is Don and we are told why....my own explanation for her animosity toward Harry is that she feels he is beneath her and just not worthy of respect OR a partnership. Or it might be that she simply didn't want any additional partners who she would take part of the companies' (her) profits.

A few thoughts, in addition to the "Harry is a dick" theory, some of which others may have touched on:

• 
  1. Don, Roger and Bert are all older than Joan and Joan worked for all of them in the past. Even Pete, as young as he is, made partner before her (being something of a "founding" member of SCDP). Even if only subconsciously she might see herself as a bit subordinate to them or at least appreciate them for their accomplishments. Furthermore, they (all but Don) asked her to sleep her way to the top. So even if they've insulted her about it, she knows they owed her. Harry, on the other hand, is some young "punk" who was low man on the totem pole and so she may not be able to accept him as her equal as readily.
  
  2. Harry basically created his current job by stealing it from her. She resents that.
  
  3. She sees Harry as being handed something she had to do some pretty desperate things to get.

On another note, does anyone else wonder if Harry tipping off Don about the cigarette meeting wasn't intentional and/or part of a plan by Cutler (figuring that Don would, in fact, respond by breaking the amended partnership agreement)? It would explain why Cutler was so quick to offer Harry a partnership thereafter and why he assumed that Harry was solidly anti-Don in the event he (Harry) got a partner vote on the matter.

 

[Warped9]

I wondered about Harry knowingly or unwittingly setting Don up for Cutler to have an excuse to jettison Don.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

^ I did, too.

Cutler seems to have been good for Harry, getting him his computer, pushing to emphasize Harry's "Media" department, even supporting him becoming a partner.

The only reason I can see for Harry to warn Don about the tobacco deal on his own would be some sense of loyalty to Don, and Harry has never really struck me as the type.

 

[dansigal]

^ I did, too.

Cutler seems to have been good for Harry, getting him his computer, pushing to emphasize Harry's "Media" department, even supporting him becoming a partner.

The only reason I can see for Harry to warn Don about the tobacco deal on his own would be some sense of loyalty to Don, and Harry has never really struck me as the type.

I don't think it was a set up. For one, it was completely random that Harry ran into Don in LA. Considering Harry showed up at that party with someone who wasn't his wife and clearly seemed embarrassed about it, I just don't think it was purposeful. Second, helpful or not to Cutler's attempt to get Don out (and it ultimately wasn't helpful), Don's actions in the tobacco meeting were pretty embarrassing to Cutler and Lou and likely also hurt the chance of the firm landing the account with the proviso that Don be removed, which I think was Cutler's ultimate goal in that scenario.

As for Harry warning Don about the meeting, I don't think it was out of loyalty, as much as Harry has always kind of looked up to Don, not in an admiration type of way, but in a star struck "he's the cool kid, and I can be cool too if we're friends" kind of way.

 

[the G-man]

Don's actions in the tobacco meeting were pretty embarrassing to Cutler and Lou and likely also hurt the chance of the firm landing the account with the proviso that Don be removed, which I think was Cutler's ultimate goal in that scenario

Could be...unless you consider that we're only a year (or less) away from the ban on tobacco ads on TV/radio. I can't believe that the big agencies weren't aware that was coming down the pike. So why was Cutler so desperate to land them, unless he knew it wasn't worth much as an account except as "bait" to oust Don?

Just when it appeared that Bert would go out without a fitting ending we get the biggest surprise scene of this season. Just perfect. It was so Mad Men/Sopranos, presenting a fantasy scene in the midst of all that drama. The fact that it was a xong and dance

I was thinking: As for Don seeing the apparition of Bert, this is at least the second time (the young Marine he met in Hawaii being the other I recall) where Don has "seen" dead people. Between that, the fact that there's a grave out there somewhere with his name (literally) on it and all the references to Tobacco = death this season, I really do think Don is a goner by the final episode.

 

[Warped9]

On the hand some folks could be reading way to much into small things that might not mean anything at all. They could just as easily be red herrings to create misdirection and thereby heighten what actually unfolds because so many might be expecting something else.

Just saying.

 

[the G-man]

Could be, but at some point too much misdirection becomes bad writing.

 

[gblews]

^ I did, too.

Cutler seems to have been good for Harry, getting him his computer, pushing to emphasize Harry's "Media" department, even supporting him becoming a partner.

The only reason I can see for Harry to warn Don about the tobacco deal on his own would be some sense of loyalty to Don, and Harry has never really struck me as the type.

I don't think it was a set up. For one, it was completely random that Harry ran into Don in LA. Considering Harry showed up at that party with someone who wasn't his wife and clearly seemed embarrassed about it, I just don't think it was purposeful. Second, helpful or not to Cutler's attempt to get Don out (and it ultimately wasn't helpful), Don's actions in the tobacco meeting were pretty embarrassing to Cutler and Lou and likely also hurt the chance of the firm landing the account with the proviso that Don be removed, which I think was Cutler's ultimate goal in that scenario.

I agree. It is just too complicated a scenario that isn't at all confirmed on screen.

Don's actions in the tobacco meeting were pretty embarrassing to Cutler and Lou and likely also hurt the chance of the firm landing the account with the proviso that Don be removed, which I think was Cutler's ultimate goal in that scenario

Could be...unless you consider that we're only a year (or less) away from the ban on tobacco ads on TV/radio. I can't believe that the big agencies weren't aware that was coming down the pike. So why was Cutler so desperate to land them, unless he knew it wasn't worth much as an account except as "bait" to oust Don?
I don't think this cigarrete account is the type that would cost the firm too heavily if they abroptly lost it (due to govmint regulations) a year or so after it's acquisition. The firm is pretty diversified now, not like in the beginning when Lucky Strike comprised much of the firm's income.

Just when it appeared that Bert would go out without a fitting ending we get the biggest surprise scene of this season. Just perfect. It was so Mad Men/Sopranos, presenting a fantasy scene in the midst of all that drama. The fact that it was a xong and dance

I was thinking: As for Don seeing the apparition of Bert, this is at least the second time (the young Marine he met in Hawaii being the other I recall) where Don has "seen" dead people. Between that, the fact that there's a grave out there somewhere with his name (literally) on it and all the references to Tobacco = death this season, I really do think Don is a goner by the final episode.

That's why I wrote, "biggest surprise scene this season rather than the entire series.

I'm almost at a point where I am willing to say that I just don't think this (Don's death) is going to happen. I think we are still reaching for things that aren't really there, rather than taking some things that actually are there into consideration. The season ended with (ghost) Bert giving out more sage advice; "there is more to life than money" (more or less), and Don seems to take this to heart and actually seems to think about the concept. The character is shown moving closer and closer to being a whole person, finally. To kill him now, would seem to be something added for shock value. I'd be willing to bet that Bert's will be the show's last death among the regular cast.

Besides, Weiner and/or staff reads the internet stuff. I'm sure he is aware that a lot of fans are anticipating a Don/Roger/Megan death. He doesn't seem like the type to allow it to appear that the fans were that much in his head. One other thing, I also think that show runners like him and Vince Gilligan are acutely aware of the stigma of the Sopranos' ending (personally thought Tony's ending was artistic and lovely). I think we'll see something definitive but still unexpected, or done in an unexpected way.

On the hand some folks could be reading way to much into small things that might not mean anything at all. They could just as easily be red herrings to create misdirection and thereby heighten what actually unfolds because so many might be expecting something else.

Just saying.

Word.

 

[the G-man]

Weiner and/or staff reads the internet stuff. I'm sure he is aware that a lot of fans are anticipating a Don/Roger/Megan death. He doesn't seem like the type to allow it to appear that the fans were that much in his head. One other thing, I also think that show runners like him and Vince Gilligan are acutely aware of the stigma of the Sopranos' ending (personally thought Tony's ending was artistic and lovely). I think we'll see something definitive but still unexpected, or done in an unexpected way.

You may be right and so far Weiner's earned my trust on this.

At the same time, if we are going to talk stigmatized endings, look at the outrage in some corners from how HIMYM ended precisely because the fans were set up to expect one ending and didn't get it. A similar backlash occurred with Lost. Weiner may want to consider each before he gives the fans what they perceive as too many misdirections and red herrings.

Either way, sucks we have to wait a year to find out.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I was thinking: As for Don seeing the apparition of Bert, this is at least the second time (the young Marine he met in Hawaii being the other I recall) where Don has "seen" dead people. Between that, the fact that there's a grave out there somewhere with his name (literally) on it and all the references to Tobacco = death this season, I really do think Don is a goner by the final episode.

Don has had visions of people since near the start of the series, including Anna and his brother. I don't think him seeing Bert is foreshadowing anything.

Some people have been expecting Don to die from the beginning, between those who interpret the title sequence literally and those who just think it's the fittingly depressing ending. I don't think Mad Men as a show has ever promised anything in particular for its characters' endgames, though.

 

[the G-man]

I was thinking: As for Don seeing the apparition of Bert, this is at least the second time (the young Marine he met in Hawaii being the other I recall) where Don has "seen" dead people. Between that, the fact that there's a grave out there somewhere with his name (literally) on it and all the references to Tobacco = death this season, I really do think Don is a goner by the final episode.

Don has had visions of people since near the start of the series, including Anna and his brother. I don't think him seeing Bert is foreshadowing anything.

But that's sort of my point. He's consistently, since the beginning of the show, seen visions of dead people. Typically, that's foreshadowing of something.

 

[CaptainCanada]

But that's sort of my point. He's consistently, since the beginning of the show, seen visions of dead people. Typically, that's foreshadowing of something.

I wouldn't say so. It's a storytelling device to dramatize what's on his mind. Per Weiner, the point of the most recent one was Don having a realization about how, as the song says, "the best things in life are free".

 

[Lord Garth]

That was a great Mad Men mid-season finale. It makes the ridiculous wait between different halves of the season more tolerable because this was a good breaking point.

Last season was Don vs. Ted with this half of the season continuing the theme except with Roger vs. Jim and Bert's death caused Roger to "make thunder", which were his words to Duck in S2 and what led to PPL purchasing Sterling Cooper.

Last year, when Duck told Pete that Burt Peterson was at McCann for some reason, I knew that McCann would work its way back into the story. Except the way I predicted it last year was the series ending like this. link

Winter 1970: Chevy is lost, Don dies around the time it becomes publicly known he's Dick, whatever SCDPCGC is called ends up bought out by McCann, and Burt Peterson fires Roger. Peggy replaces Don. Pete has the power and prestige he always wanted but it doesn't mean anything because no one likes him.

I wonder how much of that, or any of it, will be right.

I was on right track even if the details were different. Some of those details might even still pan out.

 

[the G-man]

Does the New Mad Men Teaser Hint at a Major Time Jump?

• As the Huffington Post points out, the cue, here, is not visual, it’s audio. That’s Diana Ross’s “Love Hangover” playing over the trailer and, brace yourself, that song didn’t come out until 1976. Sure, Mad Men has used anachronistic music in the past, but, for the most part, creator Matthew Weiner prefers to stick to contemporary jams.
  
  So could the final season take a larger-than-usual jump to the 70s, or will it keep the action in 1969, tying up both the series and the decade in a tidy bow? Tune in to find out when Mad Men returns for its final season on April 5. Pete will be waiting.

I think its misdirection. It'd be hard to age Sally an additional six years, if nothing else.

If anything, I could the time jump in the finale, something that ties into the bicentennial, but the rest of the season being soon after the "Waterloo" episode."

Either way, can't wait to find out.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

As you said, it would be hard to add six years to Sally's age and that alone tells me it's probably misdirection.

Honestly, it doesn't make any sense to time jump it. The whole point of the show is the 60's.

 

[gblews]

I think we're being told that it's the 70's but not necessarily 1976. Still, we'll have to wait to find out for sure.