New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

[Hound of UIster]

The idea that the Empire was strictly xenophobic never felt right to me. I mean it's a big galaxy with a history that includes a thousand generations of Republic rule across a million worlds. You'd think things would be pretty cosmopolitan. If nothing else humans would be collectively outnumbered a trillion to one, which seems to make an all human military an untenable idea.

Not really at all. If the civilian population isn't organized on any level militarily and the humans have a futuristic military with Star Destroyers and Death Stars, it's not going to be much of a fight. The technological advantage demolishes the argument that skewed alien to human ratio would prevent human dominance.

The officers are a bit a a problem, but I'm willing to overlook it for the same real world practical reasons I overlook that the vast majority of rebel soldiers being human.

You are basically trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Putting a conclusion before evidence. The original idea of a racist empire was derived first from the evidence of the military being mostly composed of humans.

 

[Corran Horn]

IIRC the only indication of this in the films is just one line in ANH (the detention block scene) and the fact that every imperial officer and trooper we see is human. The abundance of humans in the military can be accounted for by the idea that the bulk of the troopers are still clones.

To play devil's advocate (because I like the EU and generally 'like' the anti-alien facet of the Empire because it makes them more evil) Garindan is clearly working for/with the Imperials when he rats out the heroes at docking bay 94.

The Empire certainly called in non-humans when the bounty hunters were gathered in ESB. Piett calls them scum collectively, not just Bossk and Zuckuss.

 

[cooleddie74]

Also, there's Grand Admiral Thrawn. Humanoid, but very clearly not a human. Even in the heyday of the EU when the Empire was described as ultra-xenophobic and the Emperor as wanting to suppress or crush all non-human influences there were a few aliens who rose through the ranks because of unique talents, skills or connections. There weren't many, but every so often the Emperor and his moffs saw that they were useful and could make their regime even stronger.

 

[Corran Horn]

Also, there's Grand Admiral Thrawn. Humanoid, but very clearly not a human. Even in the heyday of the EU when the Empire was described as ultra-xenophobic and the Emperor as wanting to suppress or crush all non-human influences there were a few aliens who rose through the ranks because of unique talents, skills or connections. There weren't many, but every so often the Emperor and his moffs saw that they were useful and could make their regime even stronger.

That's an EU construct though. COMPNOR came out of the gaming materials I believe so that's pre-Thrawn, even.

 

[davejames]

I suppose it makes sense, but personally I'd rather keep the more overt parallels to racism and xenophobia out of SW. It just feels a bit too real world for my taste. I prefer the more innocent, movie serial simplicity of the original movies myself, with all of their straight up, evil bad guys.

If you wanna give them a little depth, that's fine, but I'm not looking for some kind of real world commentary from SW (especially after already getting more than enough of that from the prequels).

 

[Reverend]

The officers are a bit a a problem, but I'm willing to overlook it for the same real world practical reasons I overlook that the vast majority of rebel soldiers being human.

You are basically trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Putting a conclusion before evidence. The original idea of a racist empire was derived first from the evidence of the military being mostly composed of humans.

OK, so by that logic the Rebel Alliance is also racist since it's mostly composed of humans? No. I didn't think so either.

Perhaps is more of a class thing with the officer corps drawing from the various prestigious military academies in the core systems (Coruscant, Corellia etc.) where humans are more common because that's where they came from. By contrast most non-human military officers were trained in the kind of strictly local militias we saw on Naboo, Mon Cala, Umbara etc. In that case the distinction would be more economic and class based rather than any strict xenophobic doctrine.

IIRC the only indication of this in the films is just one line in ANH (the detention block scene) and the fact that every imperial officer and trooper we see is human. The abundance of humans in the military can be accounted for by the idea that the bulk of the troopers are still clones.

To play devil's advocate (because I like the EU and generally 'like' the anti-alien facet of the Empire because it makes them more evil) Garindan is clearly working for/with the Imperials when he rats out the heroes at docking bay 94.

The Empire certainly called in non-humans when the bounty hunters were gathered in ESB. Piett calls them scum collectively, not just Bossk and Zuckuss.

You know I'd totally forgotten about Garindan. I suppose he could just be a local informant looking for a payday, but the Imperials did seem totally willing to act on his word.

I suppose it makes sense, but personally I'd rather keep the more overt parallels to racism and xenophobia out of SW. It just feels a bit too real world for my taste. I prefer the more innocent, movie serial simplicity of the original movies myself, with all of their straight up, evil bad guys.

If you wanna give them a little depth, that's fine, but I'm not looking for some kind of real world commentary from SW (especially after already getting more than enough of that from the prequels).

Pretty much how I feel. These guys blow up populated planets, we don't need them to be space Nazis too <insert Indiana Jones reference>. Mind you, by the look of the uniforms, perhaps the Imperial Japanese Army would be a closer parallel.

 

[Skywalker]

So I've been watching The Clone Wars recently (having given it a pass while it was airing) and I've actually been enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would. I regret not following it as it was airing, though it's also kind of nice being able to marathon the show and watch the episodes in chronological order.

I'm glad that so many people who worked on TCW are sticking around for Rebels. And while I'm looking forward to this new cartoon, does anyone else wish it had a different focus? With the sequel trilogy coming soon and putting the spotlight back on the OT characters, setting Rebels during the three-year gap between ANH and TESB, and focusing on Han, Luke, Leia, etc., could have been a lot of fun, and provide a nice parallel to TCW.

 

[Christopher]

I'm glad that so many people who worked on TCW are sticking around for Rebels. And while I'm looking forward to this new cartoon, does anyone else wish it had a different focus? With the sequel trilogy coming soon and putting the spotlight back on the OT characters, setting Rebels during the three-year gap between ANH and TESB, and focusing on Han, Luke, Leia, etc., could have been a lot of fun, and provide a nice parallel to TCW.

I dunno... I have expressed some disappointment in the past that the characters were all unfamiliar, but on reflection, it's probably better to have characters whose futures aren't constrained by existing continuity and who are free to grow and develop.

 

[Mr Light]

I'm glad that the series is focused on a single ship and crew. I've been rewatching Clone Wars recently and I often get uninterested in episodes that don't have Anakain and Obi-Wan and Ahsoka in them. Particularly if it stars the clones, who remain interchangeable ciphers to me no matter how much they try to differentiate them.

 

[Skywalker]

I can understand that, but so far I've enjoyed the episodes that have featured other characters showing different events going on across the galaxy. Anakin, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka can't be there for everything.

In a Rebels focused on the OT crew I was imagining something similar. The occasional episode focusing on Lando, or Wedge, etc. Even Darth Vader or Boba Fett on occasion. But Christopher makes a good point, by focusing on new characters the writers have a lot more room to work with.

 

[Gaith]

With the sequel trilogy coming soon and putting the spotlight back on the OT characters, setting Rebels during the three-year gap between ANH and TESB

I know that's the official Party line, but three whole years, my ass. Try six months to a year, tops.

 

[Skywalker]

I think I'll take the official party line over your ass.

 

[Masiral]

I'm glad that so many people who worked on TCW are sticking around for Rebels. And while I'm looking forward to this new cartoon, does anyone else wish it had a different focus? With the sequel trilogy coming soon and putting the spotlight back on the OT characters, setting Rebels during the three-year gap between ANH and TESB, and focusing on Han, Luke, Leia, etc., could have been a lot of fun, and provide a nice parallel to TCW.

I dunno... I have expressed some disappointment in the past that the characters were all unfamiliar, but on reflection, it's probably better to have characters whose futures aren't constrained by existing continuity and who are free to grow and develop.

Yeah, that was somewhat of an issue for me with TCW - we know that Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme, Dooku, Yoda, Grievous, etc. survive to be in Episode III, which can lessen the stakes of an episode dramatically.

 

[cooleddie74]

I think I'll take the official party line over your ass.

Same here. It was three years, maybe a little bit more. It's not that it's the official timespan between those two movies and we're supposed to accept it, it's that a gap of three years makes sense.

 

[Christopher]

I dunno... I have expressed some disappointment in the past that the characters were all unfamiliar, but on reflection, it's probably better to have characters whose futures aren't constrained by existing continuity and who are free to grow and develop.

Yeah, that was somewhat of an issue for me with TCW - we know that Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme, Dooku, Yoda, Grievous, etc. survive to be in Episode III, which can lessen the stakes of an episode dramatically.

Not what I meant. There's much more to a story than whether characters live or die. I'm talking about character development and change, about the ability to put characters through big, transformative events that change their relationships and life paths. For instance, TCW couldn't have Anakin and Padme get divorced, or conversely have their marriage exposed and Anakin defrocked as a Jedi for it. It couldn't show, say, Padme defecting to the Separatists or Dooku getting arrested and sent to prison for his war crimes -- unless it was a temporary development that got comfortably reset to the status quo. Heck, the whole reason they created Ahsoka and kept her so central, and the reason they focused so much on the clone characters, was so that they'd have characters they could actually change and develop and be freer to tell stories about. That's what made Ahsoka's arc and those of some of the clones so much richer than the Anakin or Obi-Wan stuff.

 

[davejames]

I'm glad that the series is focused on a single ship and crew. I've been rewatching Clone Wars recently and I often get uninterested in episodes that don't have Anakain and Obi-Wan and Ahsoka in them. Particularly if it stars the clones, who remain interchangeable ciphers to me no matter how much they try to differentiate them.

Yeah same here. I know there are tons of people who are utterly fascinated with everything to do with the Clone Troopers (motivating Sideshow to produce a 1/6 figure for every possible variation and color), but I've just never understood the appeal myself. And the same goes for the OT's Stormtroopers for that matter, which people are equally obsessed with... for some reason.

As for Rebels, I think it's likely the writers will find ways to expand the stories or tell many of them in different ways-- starting an episode with a flashback perhaps, or on another planet, or only involving one or two characters on a mission. I doubt it's going to be a formulaic TNG kind of thing, with nearly every episode starting and ending on the ship.

 

[Gaith]

Same here. It was three years, maybe a little bit more. It's not that it's the official timespan between those two movies and we're supposed to accept it, it's that a gap of three years makes sense.

Disagree. The way Han talks at the beginning of Empire, he's pretty much been holed up with the Rebels ever since Yavin, unable to smuggle along his old haunts because of Jabba's bounty. So we're really supposed to buy that after three years of hanging around with them, he's still itching to get back to his old ways, still has barely made a move on Leia? Okay, maybe Leia's been busy elsewhere a few months, and maybe he's been mostly helping with the move to Hoth. Hence my "up to a year" measure. But three years, no, that just doesn't wash.

 

[Reverend]

Same here. It was three years, maybe a little bit more. It's not that it's the official timespan between those two movies and we're supposed to accept it, it's that a gap of three years makes sense.

Disagree. The way Han talks at the beginning of Empire, he's pretty much been holed up with the Rebels ever since Yavin, unable to smuggle along his old haunts because of Jabba's bounty. So we're really supposed to buy that after three years of hanging around with them, he's still itching to get back to his old ways, still has barely made a move on Leia? Okay, maybe Leia's been busy elsewhere a few months, and maybe he's been mostly helping with the move to Hoth. Hence my "up to a year" measure. But three years, no, that just doesn't wash.

I don't think it was so much an itch to get back to his old ways as it was a need to clear his debt to Jabba and get the price off his head. He's fully on board with the rebel cause, but he's no good to them if bounty hunters are taking pot shots at him wherever he lands. This much is made pretty clear in tESB.

 

[JD]

^Which, IMO at least, works a little better if there is a bigger gap and he's spent more time trying to avoid Jabba's people.

 

[davejames]

Han also seems far more sober and mature at the start of ESB than at the end of ANH, which makes me think he's been fighting with and helping out the rebels for quite a while. Certainly more than six months or a year anyway.