Riker wanted the Enterprise but Picard wouldn't move on.
Why Not 2 Captains?
- Thread starter 2takesfrakes
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Doesn't explain why Dax didn't switch to a red uniform though. Data did when acting as XO, after all.
(Hell, since Dax was usually at the helm of the Defiant, which was a Command Division role in the other series, she should probably have worn red whenever she was aboard the ship...)
That was always my reading - he always thought Picard was going to retire or be promoted to a desk job in a relatively short timeframe (as Kirk had post-TOS/pre-TMP) and was holding out for the E-D, not the crummy little Melbourne or whatever.
Doesn't answer my question. Why is one officer who holds a rank less than captain but is in command of the ship called a Captain, while another officer who also holds a rank less than Captain and is also in command of the ship not called Captain?
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You guys are forgetting a few things here:
Scotty was given a promotion to the rank of captain, but specifically, "captain of Engineering" in TSFS. He wasn't going to be demoted from that rank/position after his role in sabotaging Excelsior and stealing the Enterprise. His rank of captain was also pretty unimportant to him, as well see in "Relics." He never wanted command and wasn't a command-line officer anyway. You could have the rank of captain and be an engineer or doctor but not be trained for command.
Which brings us to Leonard McCoy. He's an admiral when we see him in "Encounter At Farpoint," and it's not too hard to imagine that he was promoted to the rank of captain at some point not too long after the events of TUC. He testified at his hearing that he was "standing down," but apparently he didn't. That said, he would have had the rank of captain, but would not have had command training or be in line for command.
Spock made it clear to Kirk in TWOK that he was content to command the Enterprise, as a training vessel, under normal circumstances. He turned over command of the Enterprise to Kirk because of the situation. Kirk is still referred to as admiral in the film, but that's only to avoid confusing the audience. He was the captain (office) of the Enterprise in that situation and would have been referred to as such.
This is probably to avoid any confusion seen in TMP, when Kirk demotes Decker to commander (rank) and assigns him to the position of XO. Kirk is called captain through the film, but he's still got the rank of admiral. Technically, Decker should have remained a captain and simply been demoted in position to XO, not rank.
Consider also Troi in the final seasons of TNG. She decides to take the command readiness test and succeeds. She also holds the rank of lieutenant commander. She could have easily moved from wearing a blue shirt to a red shirt given the fact that she was now trained in the command line. If memory serves, this was done in the Titan novels. with Troi now a full commander and holding a position of tactical adviser or some such.
Finally, Crusher was a full commander throughout TNG. In the possible future of All Good Things, she's a captain, but not just in rank; she's also switched to command division (I'd imagine) as she's wearing command red.
Scotty was given a promotion to the rank of captain, but specifically, "captain of Engineering" in TSFS. He wasn't going to be demoted from that rank/position after his role in sabotaging Excelsior and stealing the Enterprise. His rank of captain was also pretty unimportant to him, as well see in "Relics." He never wanted command and wasn't a command-line officer anyway. You could have the rank of captain and be an engineer or doctor but not be trained for command.
Which brings us to Leonard McCoy. He's an admiral when we see him in "Encounter At Farpoint," and it's not too hard to imagine that he was promoted to the rank of captain at some point not too long after the events of TUC. He testified at his hearing that he was "standing down," but apparently he didn't. That said, he would have had the rank of captain, but would not have had command training or be in line for command.
Spock made it clear to Kirk in TWOK that he was content to command the Enterprise, as a training vessel, under normal circumstances. He turned over command of the Enterprise to Kirk because of the situation. Kirk is still referred to as admiral in the film, but that's only to avoid confusing the audience. He was the captain (office) of the Enterprise in that situation and would have been referred to as such.
This is probably to avoid any confusion seen in TMP, when Kirk demotes Decker to commander (rank) and assigns him to the position of XO. Kirk is called captain through the film, but he's still got the rank of admiral. Technically, Decker should have remained a captain and simply been demoted in position to XO, not rank.
Consider also Troi in the final seasons of TNG. She decides to take the command readiness test and succeeds. She also holds the rank of lieutenant commander. She could have easily moved from wearing a blue shirt to a red shirt given the fact that she was now trained in the command line. If memory serves, this was done in the Titan novels. with Troi now a full commander and holding a position of tactical adviser or some such.
Finally, Crusher was a full commander throughout TNG. In the possible future of All Good Things, she's a captain, but not just in rank; she's also switched to command division (I'd imagine) as she's wearing command red.
Audiences - even of the time - seem to have been ahead of the writers and producers. They could've handled, understood and accepted 2 individuals of Captain's rank aboard ENTERPRISE. And why shouldn't it be Riker as the second?
He's everything you could ask or hope for in a STARFLEET officer. The women of the Galaxy, whether they be Leaders of entire worlds, or Plain Janes from Genderless planets, they all recognized a Winner when they saw one. Audiences do not always need everything spelled out for them, but how many more hints, clues and indications were necessary to carry the idea across that William Thomas Riker was Captain's Rank Material?
As it was, the producers, writers, et al, decided to show their discression by holding Riker back ... and keeping a Good Man down. But Riker loved his friends aboard ... and the status and prestige of being a command officer aboard the infamous USS Enterprise. All of this did help to get that jagged little pill down easier. But Riker really should've held the rank of Captain ...
He's everything you could ask or hope for in a STARFLEET officer. The women of the Galaxy, whether they be Leaders of entire worlds, or Plain Janes from Genderless planets, they all recognized a Winner when they saw one. Audiences do not always need everything spelled out for them, but how many more hints, clues and indications were necessary to carry the idea across that William Thomas Riker was Captain's Rank Material?
As it was, the producers, writers, et al, decided to show their discression by holding Riker back ... and keeping a Good Man down. But Riker loved his friends aboard ... and the status and prestige of being a command officer aboard the infamous USS Enterprise. All of this did help to get that jagged little pill down easier. But Riker really should've held the rank of Captain ...
So you mean that Riker had an entitlement mentality? That is, that he felt like he was entitled to be captain of the Enterprise whenever Picard was to vacate the position.
If that was the case, not only was Riker pathetic for always whining about wanting a ship of his own to command but never pro-actively doing anything to achieve his desire; but he was also foolish.
That is not how promotions necessarily happens.
Just because Riker was the number 2 man on board the Enterprise didn't entitle him to permanently take over the center seat after Picard vacated it. There is no set procedure in any naval fleet, as far as I know, where the xo automatically becomes the permanent captain of a ship after his predecessor moves on to something else.
Also, if Riker felt as though it was beneath him to be captain (position) of a ship other than the Enterprise, then he was arrogant. Jellico was right about Riker.
And if Riker couldn't handle leaving the comfort of the Enterprise to be captain of a different but unfamiliar ship, then he was weak and unsuited to be captain in the first place.
For all those reasons, Riker didn't deserve to be captain (neither in rank nor position).
I thought that Picard was a commodore anyway? It's never stated on screen as such, but in Redemption and First Contact he is in charge of more than one ship. That's what a commodore does in the current naval structure. Essentially a person with the rank of captain who supervises more than one ship.
I seem to recall multiple high-ranking officers (including Admirals) on the US carriers engaged at Midway. They had to transfer around to meet up and when one was damaged/sunk. Not really certain, though, long time I learned that.
Well, heck, in 1944 and 45 the same ships would be called the Third Fleet or the Fifth Fleet, depending on whether Admiral Halsey or Admiral Spruance was leading the current operation. (They had reasons that made sense at the time. That it was confusing to the enemy was a bonus.)
Mind, that was also commanding a lot of ships.
None of that changes the fact that he saved humanity in BOBW, which shows he's fit for the role of captain and was after characters were trying to get him to leave the Enterprise.
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