A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Obviously it's early to call it, but I've a suspicion that Lady Stoneheart won't appear in the tv show. Based on absolutely nothing. Feel free to quote this post when I'm proved wrong.

 

And that's the reason why they should change the timing even when it makes no sense at all? It's obvious that UnCat is the "last shot of the season finale" material. If it does happen at the end of this season finale, it may even be the best possible last shot of a season finale up to date, or at least it would share that place with the hatching of dragons from season 1.

 

I love the way it's written as if it's a work of a Citadel master, with titles like "The Glorious Reign" and "Queer Customs of the South" (Dorne). But I hope they will correct the spelling mistakes - I've just looked at the Stark family tree, and they spelled Jeyne as Jayne, and also made a typo in Tyrion's name.

 

So with next episode being called "Mockingbird" and the preview showing crazy Aunt Lysa threaten to toss Sansa off the Eyrie, I was wondering... is Lysa going to die this week? IIRC it didn't take him long in the books.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking they could play out that whole arc in just a few scenes, from Petyr stoking Lysa's jealousy to Lysa trying to kill Sansa to Petyr sending his new bride through the Moon Door.

 

She doesn't appear until the very last page. I expect this to be the final fade to credits scene of the season.

 

I'm also expecting this...it'll be a nice contrast to Danys' crowd-surfing last year.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-of-too-much-incest-with-brother-9373928.html

Some sick fucks running this show

 

I am no book purists but I would be shocked if he did not kill her. That would be a far more significant change than anything else to date

 

I believe they've pretty much already established he will; because the show uses a badge instead of a chain for the Hand's symbol of office, Tyrion will strangle Shae with that gold necklace he gave her last season.

 

^^^Yep, and the show she put on for everyone at court to aid the case against him put another nail in the coffin. Once he finds her in daddy's bed, that will seal her fate.

 

I still consider Tyrion's murder of Shae to be his moral event horizon. Up to that point, he really wasn't as bad as everyone else. Killing Shae and then his father, though, essentially represents him becoming his father--ruthless and amoral.

 

^ Some would say that he was giving them their just desserts. It's certainly open to debate but I'm not sure I'd agree that his actions were amoral. Cold-blooded, yes, but revenge usually is.

 

Let's see: public, humiliating, betrayal by the woman he loved and a father who was willing to destroy or take the rest of his life to achieve his own ends.

I'm willing to give Tyrion a pass on both of those killings.

 

Yeah, it's totally cool to kill people because they were mean to you.

Killing Tywin could be stretched to self-defense, though it's incredibly questionable as to whether killing Tywin makes Tyrion's life any less threatened. One could more easily argue that adding patricide on top of regicide and escape from justice only means the bounty on his head will be higher with no real benefit to himself.

Killing Shae, on the other hand, is completely indefensible.

 

Just to play devil's advocate - using wildfire (essentially a weapon of mass destruction so dangerous that its use is morally questionable) during the battle of the Blackwater (killing thousands) did not represent crossing a moral event horizon, but knocking off two people whose actions would knowingly result in your death did?

 

The wildfire was used solely against an invading force that intended to sack the city. War sucks, but under the circumstances it was either Stannis loses a lot of soldiers or lots of people in King's Landing die.

I mainly object to Tyrion's murder of Shae because she's completely defenseless when he does it, and she holds no power over him at that point. Tywin is slightly more understandable, since Tywin is an ongoing threat, yet his death only further seals Tyrion's fate.

 

Framing what Shae did as just "being mean to him" is a bit disingenuous. Her false testimony sealed his guilty verdict along with a likely death sentence. Sure, she's probably not a threat anymore at that point. If I knew that someone had tried to kill me, my morality sure as hell isn't the thing that would keep me from responding in kind. It would be the risk of failure and thus renewed attempts on my life, and it would be the risk of legal ramifications. Tyrion's gonna be on the lam regardless.

I'll happily join in with the rest of the cheering immoral viewers when Tyrion does the deed.

 

Framing someone with the result that you're sentenced to death goes a little bit beyond 'being mean to you.' And we're not dealing with 21st century western civilisation morality. Was what Tyrion did any worse than Ned Stark beheading the nights watch deserter or Robb executing Lord Karstsrk, Dany crucifying the city elders, Jon beheading Janos Slynt, etc?

 

Ned, Robb and Jon were all in their legal rights to do what they did as Lords/Kings/Commanders. And Dany is learning that what she did was maybe not the best thing to do.

There's also the side-point that Shae was most likely coerced into testifying and saying what she did. I mean, she embarrassed herself when she revealed their sex life just as much as she embarrassed Tyrion. Yet Tyrion never stops to think that maybe she DIDN'T do it out of spite despite knowing Cersei had a hand in everything.