Dolphins are people too. Cetecean ops as canon!

[2takesfrakes]

The images in the original post seem interesting, had they been able to realize those as actual sets on TNG. But the idea of dolphins exchanging in conversation with Picard, no matter how sincerely acted on his part, would've come across as Ludacris. It would've been laughed at, by the general public. I do not see how it could've been handled, or what purpose dolphins would've served onboard.

How the hell could you ever evacuate these dolphins, without use of the transporter, if an emergency ever came up, of if the ship was set on self-destruct and the window for escape was very limited. Answer: it would've never come up. We would've never seen it. Fans would bring it up, but it would never be shown, because there's no point. It's expensive, and it adds nothing to a story that isn't specifically about them. As a visual, an interior set, it would've been striking, just to have an aquarium of that size onboard. But it's probably best left to novels, anyway.

 

[Trekker4747]

The images in the original post seem interesting, had they been able to realize those as actual sets on TNG. But the idea of dolphins exchanging in conversation with Picard, no matter how sincerely acted on his part, would've come across as Ludacris. It would've been laughed at, by the general public. I do not see how it could've been handled, or what purpose dolphins would've served onboard.

How the hell could you ever evacuate these dolphins, without use of the transporter, if an emergency ever came up, of if the ship was set on self-destruct and the window for escape was very limited. Answer: it would've never come up. We would've never seen it. Fans would bring it up, but it would never be shown, because there's no point. It's expensive, and it adds nothing to a story that isn't specifically about them. As a visual, an interior set, it would've been striking, just to have an aquarium of that size onboard. But it's probably best left to novels, anyway.

The blueprints to the ship, designed by Sternbach, show dedicated lifeboats connected to the cetacean ops tanks.

Presumably in any evacuation scenario the need to evacuate would be communicated to the cetaceans who would then go to the lifeboats and escape with the rest of the crew. (I'd assume also any responsible for any of other forms of animal life on the ship would evacuate them as well.) Also in some situations I'm sure the cetaceans and other animals on the ship could be transported off, aquatic life transported into the waters of the planet be evacuated to or possibly in large tanks transported with the aquatic life. If they can transport shuttle craft and other large objects transporting a giant fish tank shouldn't be too hard. (It may be a separate peace not hard-connected to the ship's architecture.)

Without looking it up again or checking in either the tech manual or other places I believe "cetacean ops" assisted in navigation in some manner. It's "possible" they may have also went on the occasional "away mission" to communicate with alien aquatic life forms with intelligence. (There may have been something similar to a universal translator for aquatic life to use to communicated with alien aquatic life.)

Keep in mind mammalian aquatic life her on Earth in the present day have shown many signs of intelligence and not only that sapience. (Sapience is different than sentience. Most mammal life is sentient. "Sentience" was a term Trek mis-used many times.) Whether we can ever learn to communicate directly with these forms of life remains to be seen, but I can shrug that say in Trek's time if they can communicate with alien race they've never talked to before through the magiks of the Universal Translator then they should have ways of communicating with intelligent aquatic life from Earth that seems to have a language or some form of communicating.

 

[Robert Comsol]

The images in the original post seem interesting, had they been able to realize those as actual sets on TNG. But the idea of dolphins exchanging in conversation with Picard, no matter how sincerely acted on his part, would've come across as Ludacris. It would've been laughed at, by the general public. I do not see how it could've been handled, or what purpose dolphins would've served onboard.

I agree on the first part. As a prerequisite to feature such a scene it would have required a thouroghly educated "general" audience.

But as to the purpose of "why", I think T'Girl nailed that down earlier: If the Federation was serious about exploring M class planets they'd surely encounter many planets with oceans.
Inevitably, IMHO, any exploration worthy of the word would require investigation of both what's on land and what's in the oceans (and Star Trek made it abundantly clear that probes or drones wouldn't be doing the job entirely)

The other thing that comes to mind is the Cetecean "probe" from ST IV that came, vanished and was never heard or seen again.
In the context of the film it was necessary for humpback whales to communicate with the probe, but they could have transferred their knowledge to dolphins.

Next to exploring the oceans of alien M class worlds, dolphins aboard the Enterprise-D could have been an asset just in case a Starfleet ship would re-encounter this Cetecean probe or something like it.

Bob

 

[varek]

Would dolphins need a tank, or could they function in a suit or with a breathing adaptor?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Also if Starfleet was serious about all-inclusiveness, treating everybody equally regardless of practical considerations such as not having breathable atmosphere in common, there would be sections of the ship permanently set to different atmospheres. A big tank for aquatic species such as Xindi, some decks where the atmosphere is poison to humans, etc.

I tend to think rather than that they paired personnel together by shared habitat and instead of a deck with a dolphin tank they had entire aquatic ships. It kind of makes sense to cover multiple atmospheres if the ship is assigned to deep space as the Enterprise D was supposed to be until they decided local politics were more fun, but for ships that aren't on deep space exploration it's just not efficient to support more than one type of atmosphere.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Upon further reflection, that Humpback Whales were deemed by THE VOYAGE HOME to be sentient is one thing. That this might apply to Dolphins, or even Sperm Whales, for that matter, is quite a leap to make, even in-universe. Also, that an alien Whale species could've built The Probe in some oceanic environment strains all credibility. Technology can only develop on dry land, as it is dependent upon fire to do so. Cats, very nearly, were granted the same status as Humpbacks in STAR TREK due to episodes like "Catspaw" and the one with Gary 7 in it. You know these writers are nearing Creative Bankruptsy, when they start endowing common animals with intelligence, wisdom and abilities far beyond that of the average Human Being ...

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
You just described Babylon 5.

 

[Trekker4747]

Upon further reflection, that Humpback Whales were deemed by THE VOYAGE HOME to be sentient is one thing. That this might apply to Dolphins, or even Sperm Whales, for that matter, is quite a leap to make, even in-universe. Also, that an alien Whale species could've built The Probe in some oceanic environment strains all credibility. Technology can only develop on dry land, as it is dependent upon fire to do so. Cats, very nearly, were granted the same status as Humpbacks in STAR TREK due to episodes like "Catspaw" and the one with Gary 7 in it. You know these writers are nearing Creative Bankruptsy, when they start endowing common animals with intelligence, wisdom and abilities far beyond that of the average Human Being ...

Keep in mind going by strict, true, definitions pretty much all mammalian life is sentient. All mammals show some degree of intelligence and awareness. This can even apply to many types of fish, birds, reptiles and amphibians. You pretty much have to go all the way to insects, arachnids and much smaller forms of animal life to find animal life on Earth that isn't sentient.

Humans are not the only sentient lifeforms on the planet. Trek often got this very, very mixed up.

*Sapience* is something else entirely and only a handful of species on this planet, other than humans, have demonstrated a level of sapience. Whales and dolphins are among some of the animals that have shown some level of sapience.

 

[T'Girl]

Technology can only develop on dry land, as it is dependent upon fire to do so. .

High temperature volcanic vents.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I miss hippy dippy Kumbaya Trek.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Technology can only develop on dry land, as it is dependent upon fire to do so. .

High temperature volcanic vents.

... forget it.

 

[Smellincoffee]

I've never heard of this! I wonder why it wasn't mentioned in Dark Mirror, since that featured a dolphin-like scientist.

 

[RAMA]

Checking the Claim: A Device That Translates Dolphin Sounds Into English

Researchers used new technology to interpret a dolphin noise they say translates loosely to "seaweed"

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innov...dolphin-sounds-into-english-180950472/?no-ist​

http://www.newscientist.com/article...RSS|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|online-news#.UzdjRK1dVcv

http://www.speakdolphin.com/ResearchItems.cfm?ID=20

https://www.thedodo.com/breakthrough-communication-dol-392908976.html

 

[2takesfrakes]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
You just described Babylon 5.

I never saw anything of BABYLON 5, actually, so I was unaware of that! Andreas Katsulas (!!!) and Walter Keonig are in it, of course. Bruce Boxleitner's wife stars in it, too, as is character's wife, if I'm not mistaken. That much I know. But it is starting to sound corny ...

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
You just described Babylon 5.

I never saw anything of BABYLON 5, actually, so I was unaware of that! Andreas Katsulas (!!!) and Walter Keonig are in it, of course. Bruce Boxleitner's wife stars in it, too, as is character's wife, if I'm not mistaken. That much I know. But it is starting to sound corny ...

B5 is my favorite TV series of any genre. The first year seems slow until you realize how many themes were set in motion that flower in the later years. I have seen it through four times now and this summer might be time for - ummm - Babylon FIVE!

 

[Rick Sternbach]

Would dolphins need a tank, or could they function in a suit or with a breathing adaptor?

Delphinids require wet, so they could exist in a water-filled space aboard ship, or in a suit. Mind you, both options require highly efficient filter mechanisms, since a typical tursiops or orca sloughs off a complete skin layer per day. I designed a pressure suit for a tursiops back in 1974 or so, using a special soft coupler to work with the blowhole, and a sonar-to-radar convertor in the bubble helmet to allow the dolphin to sense objects in the surrounding space.

Rick

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I did this Star Trek roleplaying thing back in the mid nineties and one person roleplayed a dolphin-like creature who had a rig of a bunch of tiny tractor beams to move and manipulate panels.

It is very hard to get an objective handle on exactly what the cutoff is for what animals get rights and what animals are food and pets. For me it would have something to do with the ability for abstract reasoning.

Most animals do have some degree of self awareness but it's more "If I do A, I have observed that B happens. B is good. Therefore I will now do A". For sapience there would have to be some degree of: "I want B, but I can't currently get B. I need to come up with a new idea C which based on my knowledge of the universe, I theorize will result in B".

If that were the cutoff it would apply to apes.

 

[Trekker4747]

Would dolphins need a tank, or could they function in a suit or with a breathing adaptor?

Delphinids require wet, so they could exist in a water-filled space aboard ship, or in a suit. Mind you, both options require highly efficient filter mechanisms, since a typical tursiops or orca sloughs off a complete skin layer per day. I designed a pressure suit for a tursiops back in 1974 or so, using a special soft coupler to work with the blowhole, and a sonar-to-radar convertor in the bubble helmet to allow the dolphin to sense objects in the surrounding space.

Rick

Thanks for the input, Rick!