Last Classic Who Story you watched

[kirk55555]

Ghost Light was very mediocre. It wasn't terrible, but I can't think of anything good to say about it.

It's a really hard story to follow, especially while you're watching it. Unlike most Doctor Who episodes, there's never a point where they all just stop and the Doctor explains what the hell is going on. Mostly, the Doctor seems to expect Ace to figure it out on her own. However, I do like that speech from the Doctor about the things he hates.

The speech was ok, but it felt like he was being a jerk to Ace. Basically, he's saying that the things he hates are much more important than hers, and hers don't even matter. He's been a jerk to Ace several times, and never for any real reason. He's honestly more of an ass than the 6th at times, if only because he seems to have more extreme mood swings. I think I've figured out my opinion of the 7th. He can be good, when he has good material (like Battlefield and Delta and the Bannermen). But if he's got bad material he doesn't do anything to make it better.

For example, even in his worst serials, Colin Baker always did a pretty good job of making his stuff at least worth seeing (except for the parts of Mindwarp when he was being controlled and not acting normal). As another example, Tom Baker made The Android Invasion at least not put me to sleep. But the 7th Doctor doesn't make his parts in bad stories particularly worth watching. Since I've disliked a good portion of his stories early on its really made me fairly uninterested in the Doctor himself. I'm thinking this is more of a writing problem than an acting problem, because the 7th's personality doesn't really entertain me much even in good stories. He just doesn't feel like a very interesting character. Hopefully The Curse of Fenric and Survival are good showings from the Doctor, it would suck to see his run end like it started.

It's interesting seeing your reactions to these: for me the MCCoy stories break down fairly easily into three groups...

Good: Remembrance, GhostLight, Fenric and Survival.
Watchable: Battlefield, Greatest Show, Dragonfire and Happiness Patrol (actually, HP is could have been great, but isn't, so it ends up as watchable as a middle ground).
So God Awful That It Was Embarrassing To Be Interested in Doctor Who Back Then: Time and the Rani, Paradise Towers, Silver Nemesis and Delta (though I do quite like Delta part one). In the entire 50 year run, Time and the Rani and Silver Nemesis are the only two where I'd genuinely say I'd sooner they'd never been made.
As the phrase goes, Your Mileage May Vary!

Yeash, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. There are several Doctor Who stories I loathe that people love (the easiest example is from New Doctor who, where I HATE Human Nature/The Family of Blood), and some others I thought were ok but most people hate (like The Twin Dilemma).

 

[DWF]

Ghost Light was very mediocre. It wasn't terrible, but I can't think of anything good to say about it.

It's a really hard story to follow, especially while you're watching it. Unlike most Doctor Who episodes, there's never a point where they all just stop and the Doctor explains what the hell is going on. Mostly, the Doctor seems to expect Ace to figure it out on her own. However, I do like that speech from the Doctor about the things he hates.

The speech was ok, but it felt like he was being a jerk to Ace. Basically, he's saying that the things he hates are much more important than hers, and hers don't even matter. He's been a jerk to Ace several times, and never for any real reason. He's honestly more of an ass than the 6th at times, if only because he seems to have more extreme mood swings. I think I've figured out my opinion of the 7th. He can be good, when he has good material (like Battlefield and Delta and the Bannermen). But if he's got bad material he doesn't do anything to make it better.

The seventh Doctor was a puppet master and really what he put though, she needed to go though it. And really if you didn't like what he had to do in Ghost Light, you're really going to hate his actions at the end of Curse Of Fenric.

 

[kirk55555]

I still haven't seen a good example of him being a "puppet master", at least any more than the other Doctors. All the versions of The Doctor are clever enough to trick their enemies, they just usually stop at that. 7th is just playing intentional mind games with his companion, seemingly for his own amusement. His games had no benefit for Ace in Ghost Light, just like his complete dismissal of her feelings on clowns in The Greatest Show in the Galaxy didn't amount to anything but him being an ass.

If calling him a puppet master means that he tricks people while often an unlikeable jerk, then I'd agree to that. He just doesn't seem to have much use for being nice. He's been weird like that the last few stories. He goes between being bland to being a complete jerk within the span of an episode. The 6th Doctor may have been argumentative, but I always got the feeling that he cared about his companions, and people in general. I wouldn't be surprised if the 7th only keeps Ace around to toy with. I feel like he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice her life if it suited his purposes and not be too broken up about it. I think he's fond of her, but I also think he's ready and willing to use her in whatever way he thinks he needs to. This has only really occurred to me recently. He was much friendlier when Mel was around. Ace as a character deserved a much better Doctor. With the 6th I think she'd have been great and had a better relationship.

 

[DWF]

I still haven't seen a good example of him being a "puppet master", at least any more than the other Doctors. All the versions of The Doctor are clever enough to trick their enemies, they just usually stop at that. 7th is just playing intentional mind games with his companion, seemingly for his own amusement. His games had no benefit for Ace in Ghost Light, just like his complete dismissal of her feelings on clowns in The Greatest Show in the Galaxy didn't amount to anything but him being an ass.

If calling him a puppet master means that he tricks people while often an unlikeable jerk, then I'd agree to that. He just doesn't seem to have much use for being nice. He's been weird like that the last few stories. He goes between being bland to being a complete jerk within the span of an episode. The 6th Doctor may have been argumentative, but I always got the feeling that he cared about his companions, and people in general. I wouldn't be surprised if the 7th only keeps Ace around to toy with. I feel like he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice her life if it suited his purposes and not be too broken up about it. I think he's fond of her, but I also think he's ready and willing to use her in whatever way he thinks he needs to. This has only really occurred to me recently. He was much friendlier when Mel was around. Ace as a character deserved a much better Doctor. With the 6th I think she'd have been great and had a better relationship.

He does feel for Ace and much more than he did for Mel, poor Mel he left on frozen planet with only Glitz as company. But he did make Darvos blow up Skaro and it's own sun, make the Cybermen destory their own fleet in Silver Nemesis, he also tricked Light into destorying himself. And I don't think he's a jerk, but he is the last Doctor I'd to make angry.

 

[NightJim]

1st Doctor:
An Unearthly Child

2nd Doctor:
Tomb of the Cybermen

3rd Doctor:
Spearhead from Space
Doctor Who and The Silurians
The Three Doctors

4th Doctor:
everything up to The Deadly Assassin (The Face of evil is the next one I need to see)

5th Doctor:
The Five Doctors
The Caves of Androzani

6th Doctor:
Everything

7th Doctor:
watched first 2 seasons, this is the one that's currently my priority to watch

8th Doctor:
Everything (televised, so that means The Movie + Night of the Doctor)

9th:
Everything

10th:
Everything

11th:
Everything

Ha, this list practically mirrors mine at the start of the year.

Recently was shamed/lambasted into watching them in order. Got as far as Dalek Invasion of Earth before I jumped to late Troughton (who I've seen last year's two finds and War Games on top of Tomb). I do enjoy Hartnell, but they're a little bit of a slog, one after the other. I've gone late Troughton because I want to watch more Pertwee because I've only seen Daemons, and felt watching Invasion first was a good shout.

 

[kirk55555]

I've just kind of jumped around the classic Doctors. I was watching a good deal of the 4th for awhile, then I decided to go through the 6th since his run was fairly short, and after I was done with him I decided to go through the 7th. After I finish McCoy's era, I'll probably go back to watching the 4th, possibly watching some of the other Doctors occasionally, depending on my mood.

 

[kirk55555]

He does feel for Ace and much more than he did for Mel, poor Mel he left on frozen planet with only Glitz as company. But he did make Darvos blow up Skaro and it's own sun, make the Cybermen destory their own fleet in Silver Nemesis, he also tricked Light into destorying himself. And I don't think he's a jerk, but he is the last Doctor I'd to make angry.

All the Doctors I've seen trick people. I don't remember the 7th blowing up Skaro (and it seemed fine in the TV movie when he went there to pick up The Master's "remains" ) but I'd say that 10 and 11 have tricked more Daleks than him. I could see any Doctor doing what he did in any of those situations mentioned, they just wouldn't be jerks while doing it.

Personally, the last Doctor I'd want to make angry would be the War Doctor. Sure, the 7th may be a master at mental torture, but the War Doctor seems like he'd be more threatening.

 

[DWF]

He does feel for Ace and much more than he did for Mel, poor Mel he left on frozen planet with only Glitz as company. But he did make Darvos blow up Skaro and it's own sun, make the Cybermen destory their own fleet in Silver Nemesis, he also tricked Light into destorying himself. And I don't think he's a jerk, but he is the last Doctor I'd to make angry.

All the Doctors I've seen trick people. I don't remember the 7th blowing up Skaro (and it seemed fine in the TV movie when he went there to pick up The Master's "remains" ) but I'd say that 10 and 11 have tricked more Daleks than him. I could see any Doctor doing what he did in any of those situations mentioned, they just wouldn't be jerks while doing it.

Personally, the last Doctor I'd want to make angry would be the War Doctor. Sure, the 7th may be a master at mental torture, but the War Doctor seems like he'd be more threatening.

I don't know you could've forgotten how the story ended, the Doctor programmed the Hand Of Omega to destroy Skaro's sun, after making sure the right Daleks got the Hand, he then angered Darvos into using it. But instead of destroying Gallifrey the Hand destroyed Skaro's sun. And yes Skaro returned in the TV movie, not that it meant much. The seventh Doctor was a real manipulator and puppet master of the Doctors.

 

[kirk55555]

Remembrance of the Daleks was fairly boring, so I just forgot how it ended. Apparently he didn't destroy Skaro well enough. But, you're right. He is a manipulator, and he showed his true colors as a malevolent puppet master in the horrible Curse of Fenric. This serial alone made me outright hate the 7th Doctor. I was right when I said he didn't care about Ace. She was only ever a part of some stupid plan. Plus, at this point she basically has stockholm syndrome, so she didn't even leave this sociopath after he revealed his true intentions in making her his companion, and his real opinion of her. She'd be in better company, and be safer, if she was traveling with The Master or The Rani. They at least are fairly open about their motivations. The Doctor hides his evil by pretending to be nice around some people, while screwing around with Ace and others behind their backs.

The War Doctor got a bad deal, it's actually the 7th incarnation of this timelord who doesn't deserve to be called The Doctor. I have to take back one of my problems with the 8th Doctor movie. The 7th Doctor deserved to die of medical malpractice. Even bumping his head on the TARDIS console like the 6th Doctor is too dignified for this a-hole. Heck, I think it would have been perfect if the 7th would have died choking on a peanut. The show definitely deserved to get cancelled during this era. If they wanted to have a show about an evil Timelord, they should have just made The Master the main character. His evil actions would at least have made sense.

I don't really blame McCoy for this. He seems like a good actor, its the writers that ruined his version of the Doctor. The 7th was at least not a horrible, evil person during his first stories. He was just a bit bland.

I didn't even bother with Survival. I refuse to watch one more second of the 7th Doctor. It helps that Ace becoming a cheetah person is extremely stupid sounding, and not something I'm interested in. Its surprising how things can take a bad turn so quickly, but this last season took the 7th Doctor from just being bland to being loathsome.

In the end, the 7th doctor had 2 good stories, Delta and the Bannermen and Battlefield, both of which could have been easily written for almost any Doctor (although the 1st wouldn't fit in Battlefield, because of the UNIT stuff). The 7th Doctor had nothing to do with the quality of either story. He also had one or two average stories, and several outright horrible stories. Outside of the two stories I mentioned as being good, I wouldn't rewatch anything else with the 7th Doctor. He was cruel, petty, uncaring, evil, and just all around unlikeable. He's hopefully the closest we'll ever get to having The Valeyard as the main character.

Next up, whenever I get to it, will probably be the 4th Doctor story The Face of Evil. I'll be happy to get back to watching a likeable Doctor again (meaning any Doctor but 7).

 

[DWF]

The Doctor had to make her lose faith in him, but in the end Ace had to fogive herself for his hatred of her own mother. And had the series continued on to a 27th season Ace would've gone to Galifrey to become a Time Lord herself. Curse of Fenric was an excellent story and the longer version is even better.

 

[kirk55555]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't recall her ever saying she hated her mother before this story, but either way it was all just him playing mind games again. I don't care if he tried to calm her down afterward, he was obviously finally telling her what he actually thought of her. It wasn't just to take down some moronic forcefield powered by trust (which is a stupid idea even from a series that gave us a robot made of candy).

The Ace Time Lord thing is weird because I don't think you can just become a Time Lord. As far as I know there were never non-gallifreyan Time Lords. I think River Song somehow got Time Lord biology (two hearts, etc) by being born on the TARDIS so it made sense with her, but Ace was an average human. I don't think you can just "learn" to be a Time Lord.

Then again, from what I've read if the show had continued it would have been revealed that Time Lords were born from a loom. This was supposed to make The Doctor more "mysterious", and of course it would be an excuse to finally remove Susan as an actual relative, since a bunch of writers over the years seemed to loathe the idea that the Doctor would ever have sex or kids I'm pretty sure the writers/people in charge of McCoy's era were completely out of their mind, and very definitely horrible writers. I'm glad the show was killed before the "cartmel masterplan" got on TV, and that new Doctor Who was able to completely ignore it.


In the end, its just my opinion. I hate the 7th, and I think he was a psychopath devoid of compassion or the ability to care about people. But I'm finally done with him. I can go back to watching all the other Doctors, who happen to be generally good people and not evil a-holes.

 

[starsuperion]

greatest classic Troughton episode, that was recreated..and new found episodes added..

ENEMY OF THE WORLD! I highly recommend it!!

 

[kirk55555]

So, before getting back to the 4th Doctor, I decided that I'd watch the next 3rd Doctor story I needed to see, The Ambassadors of Death. This was a horrible idea. The premise wasn't bad, and when it did plot important stuff it was decent, but being seven episodes killed the story. It became really tedious, and there was a lot of padding. The Doctor, Liz and the Brigadier were good, but it just went on way too long. I'm just glad that, whenever I get to Inferno, I'll finally be done with 7 episode stories. Well, after that sidetrack in Doctor Who viewing, the next story I watch will definately be the 4th Doctor story The Face of Death.

 

[starsuperion]

So, before getting back to the 4th Doctor, I decided that I'd watch the next 3rd Doctor story I needed to see, The Ambassadors of Death. This was a horrible idea. The premise wasn't bad, and when it did plot important stuff it was decent, but being seven episodes killed the story. It became really tedious, and there was a lot of padding. The Doctor, Liz and the Brigadier were good, but it just went on way too long. I'm just glad that, whenever I get to Inferno, I'll finally be done with 7 episode stories. Well, after that sidetrack in Doctor Who viewing, the next story I watch will definately be the 4th Doctor story The Face of Death.

Inferno is a really great story. I enjoyed it immensely..not to mention that as far as mirror universes go, it gave me that impression that someday the series could go back and touch base on that universe. I would love to see the Master from Inferno's universe Teaming up with the Doctor of this universe to fight an evil version of the Doctor, that would be amazingly cool!

 

[Timewalker]

So, before getting back to the 4th Doctor, I decided that I'd watch the next 3rd Doctor story I needed to see, The Ambassadors of Death. This was a horrible idea. The premise wasn't bad, and when it did plot important stuff it was decent, but being seven episodes killed the story. It became really tedious, and there was a lot of padding. The Doctor, Liz and the Brigadier were good, but it just went on way too long. I'm just glad that, whenever I get to Inferno, I'll finally be done with 7 episode stories. Well, after that sidetrack in Doctor Who viewing, the next story I watch will definately be the 4th Doctor story The Face of Death.

Face of Evil.

I liked Inferno, and it's one of the few stories that had a personal impact on the Doctor in later stories (ie. he had flashbacks about it).

Inferno is a really great story. I enjoyed it immensely..not to mention that as far as mirror universes go, it gave me that impression that someday the series could go back and touch base on that universe. I would love to see the Master from Inferno's universe Teaming up with the Doctor of this universe to fight an evil version of the Doctor, that would be amazingly cool!

There wasn't a mirror-Doctor in Inferno, though.

 

[kirk55555]

So, before getting back to the 4th Doctor, I decided that I'd watch the next 3rd Doctor story I needed to see, The Ambassadors of Death. This was a horrible idea. The premise wasn't bad, and when it did plot important stuff it was decent, but being seven episodes killed the story. It became really tedious, and there was a lot of padding. The Doctor, Liz and the Brigadier were good, but it just went on way too long. I'm just glad that, whenever I get to Inferno, I'll finally be done with 7 episode stories. Well, after that sidetrack in Doctor Who viewing, the next story I watch will definately be the 4th Doctor story The Face of Death.

Face of Evil.

I liked Inferno, and it's one of the few stories that had a personal impact on the Doctor in later stories (ie. he had flashbacks about it).

I mistyped (which is stupid because I didn't make the mistake the several other posts where I mentioned it). I guess Ambassadoirs of Death was still distracting me . I've heard good things about Inferno, and I'll definitely watch it. I just feel like getting back to the 4th, and after Ambassadors of Death I'm not quite up for another 7 parter so soon.

 

[diankra]

Ambassadors is a salvage job; David Whitaker wrote a Troughton story - possibly a semi-sequel to Enemy of the World, it got knocked back, Malcolm Hulke ended up writing a new story that used some of Whitaker's attempt to rewrite it for UNIT.
Actually I quite like it. But it's a bit of a mess as well.

 

[kirk55555]

The Face of Evil was a good serial. It was interesting to see the primitive tribe react to the Doctor as"the evil one". Leela was interesting, and she seems like she'll be a good companion. The computer was creepy when it was yelling at the Doctor using his own voice which shifted to a kids voice. The Doctor's appearance in the story was a bit weird. When he first leaves the tARDIS, he turns to the camera and starts talking to it. Maybe he was supposed to be talking to itself, but it was still unusual. Next up will be The Robots of Death.

 

[Timewalker]

It's good to hear you enjoyed it. And you're in for a treat; Robots of Death is one of the best of the Tom Baker stories.

 

[Sindatur]

Robots of Death is great. And, yea, I really like Leela's Introduction. Matter of fact, I enjoy all of Leela's stories, I think there's only one story that's well-panned, and another some people take alot of points off for offensive stereotyping (Though, others think it's the best story of Leela's Run).