Scenes where Kirk is slower than the audience

[Robert Comsol]

Inspired by that thread (or is it "threat"?) that has been closed in the fan art section, I rewatched "Assignment Earth" tonight.

The episode revolved about the uncertainty whether the Gary 7 character was benign or malicious which was considerably troubling Kirk.

Near the finale Spock is trying to figure out the controls of that alien technology (from a planet still unknown in the 24th Century though located in UFP core territory) to prevent World War III.

Roberta has Gary 7's device, bears it on Kirk but is stopped by Gary 7 who informs her (and Kirk and Spock) that it was set on "kill". Now, obviously, Gary 7 has just saved Kirk's life and, IMHO, established his good intentions and what does Kirk do?

He hesitates for several seconds (which seemed like minutes to me) before asking Spock to move aside and let Gary 7 do what he promised to do.

Did the director think that it would take audiences that long to understand that Gary 7 meant good or was that just another extra added drama and tension?

Anybody remember similar scenes where Kirk was still trying to figure something out, most audiences had already grasped?

Bob

 

[STR]

The entirety of the Gorn episode, which is ironic given that he calls the Gorn slow.

 

[scotpens]

The entirety of the Gorn episode, which is ironic given that he calls the Gorn slow.

Because it takes Kirk a while to realize that he has the materials on hand to make gunpowder? How many people know the formula for gunpowder even today?

 

[Metryq]

obviously, Gary 7 has just saved Kirk's life

There was nothing obvious about it. Gary might have been applying all kinds of reverse psychology. Here's the Enterprise on a first intentional time travel mission, and they are instructed to observe, only. Along comes a guy equipped with all manner of subtle and highly advanced technology, and who seems to know a great deal about "future" history.

The problem with time traveling is realizing that someone else may be far ahead of your understanding of a situation, and thus focused on the same events for ulterior motives. Suddenly an observation mission demands your active involvement. And you wonder why Kirk hesitates?

People like Kirk (or cops) are trained to be in control of a situation. (Which is why arguing with a cop is a bad idea. Better to take up any gripes with your lawyer later.) Yet being in control also means understanding that doing nothing is just as much a decision as taking some course of action.

For the out-of-universe explanation, time is often expanded or contracted in a production so that the audience has time to grasp what is going on.

 

[The Old Mixer]

"Vulcan biology? As in the biology of Vulcans?"

"But...you're not a fish, Mr. Spock."

As for the question about Kirk's hesitation in AE, I think that it was clearly for dramatic tension. We the audience had learned a lot more about Gary Seven at that point than Kirk and Spock knew.

 

[GeorgeKirk]

There's a bit in Wink of an Eye where he slows way down.

 

[Melakon]

For a brilliant scientist, Spock seems exceedingly slow during some of the events of "The Galileo Seven".

 

[MacLeod]

Inspired by that thread (or is it "threat"?) that has been closed in the fan art section, I rewatched "Assignment Earth" tonight.

The episode revolved about the uncertainty whether the Gary 7 character was benign or malicious which was considerably troubling Kirk.

Near the finale Spock is trying to figure out the controls of that alien technology (from a planet still unknown in the 24th Century though located in UFP core territory) to prevent World War III.

Roberta has Gary 7's device, bears it on Kirk but is stopped by Gary 7 who informs her (and Kirk and Spock) that it was set on "kill". Now, obviously, Gary 7 has just saved Kirk's life and, IMHO, established his good intentions and what does Kirk do?

He hesitates for several seconds (which seemed like minutes to me) before asking Spock to move aside and let Gary 7 do what he promised to do.

Did the director think that it would take audiences that long to understand that Gary 7 meant good or was that just another extra added drama and tension?

Anybody remember similar scenes where Kirk was still trying to figure something out, most audiences had already grasped?

Bob

Just because Seven said it was set to Kill doesn't mean it was set to kill. As someone said it might have been a ploy to gain Kirks trust for ulterior motives. Yes that might be a somehwat cynical viewpoint but it's still a possibility that Kirk would have to consider.

 

[Greg Cox]

Inspired by that thread (or is it "threat"?) that has been closed in the fan art section, I rewatched "Assignment Earth" tonight.

The episode revolved about the uncertainty whether the Gary 7 character was benign or malicious which was considerably troubling Kirk.

Near the finale Spock is trying to figure out the controls of that alien technology (from a planet still unknown in the 24th Century though located in UFP core territory) to prevent World War III.

Roberta has Gary 7's device, bears it on Kirk but is stopped by Gary 7 who informs her (and Kirk and Spock) that it was set on "kill". Now, obviously, Gary 7 has just saved Kirk's life and, IMHO, established his good intentions and what does Kirk do?

He hesitates for several seconds (which seemed like minutes to me) before asking Spock to move aside and let Gary 7 do what he promised to do.

Did the director think that it would take audiences that long to understand that Gary 7 meant good or was that just another extra added drama and tension?

Anybody remember similar scenes where Kirk was still trying to figure something out, most audiences had already grasped?

Bob

Just because Seven said it was set to Kill doesn't mean it was set to kill. As someone said it might have been a ploy to gain Kirks trust for ulterior motives. Yes that might be a somehwat cynical viewpoint but it's still a possibility that Kirk would have to consider.

Plus, after "City on the Edge of Forever," Kirk knows better than most how much damage even a well-intentioned time traveler can do. And he still knows next to nothing about Seven at that point (unlike the viewer, who has seen enough to confirm that Seven is a good guy).

A mysterious stranger, working for unknown aliens, who may or may not be from the future, is tampering with an atomic weapons test in Earth's past. Kirk's uncertainty seems perfectly plausible under the circumstances. Indeed, one would hope that Kirk would think twice before taking Seven at his word.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

How about "Wolf in the Fold"? Kirk sends Scotty and a female tricorder technician off to be alone in an isolated room, despite having just recently found Scotty standing over a stabbed woman in the street with the knife in his hand and no explanation.

If her parents ever read the mission report, they'd have a good case for Kirk's court-martial regardless of the Redjack angle. Kirk was incredibly reckless, or "slow" beyond all belief, to put her in that position.

 

[Timo]

One could argue Kirk was trying to make a point there, and the attempt backfired mightily...

Kirk seems pretty slow to realize that Sam Cogley is the worst possible lawyer for him in "Court Martial". The senile geezer does nothing but let pass opportunities to challenge, inquire or influence. Why is Kirk resigned to doing the same, rather than, say, whipping his fellow officers into working harder on the practical angles of the case? But "Court Martial" is among those episodes where Kirk has an excuse for being somewhat stunned...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

"Vulcan biology? As in the biology of Vulcans?"

"But...you're not a fish, Mr. Spock."

By the fish comment, Kirk was implying that Spock as an intelligent and logical being should not be at the mercy of such irrational and purely animal drives.

As for "Vulcan biology/biology of Vulcans," Spock was being uncharacteristically reticent and Kirk was trying not to be too direct in return while still extracting the information from him. I don't see either of these as Kirk not getting it.

 

[Robert Comsol]

One could argue Kirk was trying to make a point there, and the attempt backfired mightily...

Like his little power play with Commissioner Ferris in "The Galileo Seven"?

Come on, there must be something wrong with somebody like Scotty who never socializes with his crewmates and has his head stuck into technical journals (look, who's talking now ).

Bob

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Indeed, one would hope that Kirk would think twice before taking Seven at his word.

Yes!

Imagine if Kirk was too set in his own suspicion and/or defensive behavior to rely on--as Spock put it--human intuition? There goes history. Jumping the gun on any decision is never wise.

 

[Shawnster]

Saavik: Admiral, the crew of the Reliant are lying to us about their comms and are now raising shields. Should we do something?

Kirk: Nah, let's wait intil they lock weapons before we worry.

 

[Mario de Monti]

How about the end of Whom Gods Destroy, where Garth masquerades as Kirk and Spock can´t tell the two apart? It should have been the easiest thing for Kirk to prove to Spock he was the real Kirk: he simply could have told Spock a small and unimportant detail, that only the real Kirk could know - like what they had for lunch the day before

Likewise it would have been just as easy for Spock to come up with a question along these lines, so I guess this is an instance where Kirk and Spock are incredibly slow

Mario

 

[Timo]

Saavik: Admiral, the crew of the Reliant are lying to us about their comms and are now raising shields. Should we do something?

Kirk: Nah, let's wait intil they lock weapons before we worry.

To be sure, being attacked by a fellow starship would be almost unthinkable. The one time it happened to Kirk, it was his starship that was doing the attacking...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mario de Monti]

Saavik: Admiral, the crew of the Reliant are lying to us about their comms and are now raising shields. Should we do something?

Kirk: Nah, let's wait intil they lock weapons before we worry.

To be sure, being attacked by a fellow starship would be almost unthinkable.

That´s right, and Kirk didn´t have much more to go on than a gut feeling that something was wrong. And still he DID put the ship on yellow alert prior to the Reliant raising her shields. So I´d say he acted pretty well under the circumstances.

Mario

 

[Timo]

The encounter raises an interesting question: why didn't the shields of the Enterprise snap up lightning fast when Kirk did give the order? They do that on other occasions.

1) Perhaps raising of shields is a process that must be started well in advance of the actual order being given? A ship on a peaceful footing might be incapable of defending herself as quickly as a ship on a war footing, because the shield generations haven't been preheated or whatnot. In that case, we could argue that Kirk should have ordered yellow alert earlier, "just in case", there supposedly being no harm to being prepared.

Then again, there may well be harm to being prepared. If the Reliant were in distress calling for rapid evacuation, then having the Enterprise shields up would be a deadly mistake.

2) Perhaps Kirk's command isn't followed merely by Sulu's keypress, but a whole chain of events below decks? In "Corbomite Maneuver", phaser crews drilled for better reaction time, and in "Balance of Terror", we saw them in action, putting a lie to the perception that the big guns fire immediately and all by themselves when Sulu presses the button at the helm console. In that case, the slowly or incorrectly acting trainees are to blame.

Then again, Kirk could be blamed for not giving his inexperienced bunch of kids the necessary extra time by anticipating. If this is a rarely visited corner of space where no other starships are supposed to dwell, shouldn't the ship be on alert all the time anyway? (Kirk's never was in TOS, but this "Kirk is slow or stupid or silly" discussion could eventually cover that, too.)

3) Perhaps shields did come up at once, but the point-blank hits collapsed them just as quickly, and Sulu was struggling with re-raising them? We often see shields or weapon systems go down in battle, only to be brought back on in a matter of seconds; the 2009 movie has a notable incident of this type, for example. The only way to blame Kirk in that case would be for allowing the suspicious starship to approach to such a deadly range.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[trevanian]

If you go by the RELIANT's displays, the shields raise pretty damn slowly, starting on one edge and wrapping around over a period of a couple seconds ... AN ETERNITY, as TFF's Kirk would say. I guess you can dismiss the graphic and just assume the shields form around the entirety at the same time, and maybe 'puff' outward as they energize, but that's running counter to onscreen evidence, and it is ANIMATED evidence, not just an old p2 graphic left over and slapped in place (of course, then there's the opening shot of TWOK,which is animated but shows a wireframe E that is a bit removed from what we see in the movies, a version that was what they started with 1978 for TMP but which changed by the time the film came out. Just undercut my own argument, didn't I?)