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Would you use a transporter?

If it doesn't, then you wouldn't notice the difference between old you and new you, it would just feel like one continuous experience.
Only to the new you. The original would be dead.

Except, if the soul doesn't exist then consciousness is an illusion, and if you didn't notice a difference there would be no difference.

I think therefore I am. I think I'm the same person therefore I am.

Precisely...

...however, I grok the science and technology behind either form of transport, Matter/Energy/Matter or Duplicate made, (and I do not think they are the same thing, with apologies to sojourner above)

...what I struggle with is the ability of the technology to reform/duplicate our intangibles...

...Consciousness...Mind...Soul...Spirit...

...but I want that tech and other Star Trek tech SO badly...

...wanna know Roddenberry (and associates) gift?

...look what we do here on this blog...long for...argue about...discuss...need...want...hope for...share...emote

...it is real for us...real as anything we have...going on 50 years

"...These are the voyages...." ...indeed
 
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My point is this though, assuming the premise that there is no literal soul.

The experience of consciousness does not reside in the matter that makes up our body, it is an effect created by the chemical and electric reactions going on in our brain. Exactly reproduce the same chemical reactions, there's no break in the experience of consciousness. From our perspective nothing would change or be different.
 
If I were in the future in StarTrek, and transporters were common place yes. Otherwise Id be like Bones.
If it were today, or slightly into our own future, I'll be too old to care, maybe Id sign up to test them!
 
The experience of consciousness does not reside in the matter that makes up our body, it is an effect created by the chemical and electric reactions going on in our brain. Exactly reproduce the same chemical reactions, there's no break in the experience of consciousness. From our perspective nothing would change or be different.
Try it this way.

Through technology an exact copy is made of you, but you aren't killed in the process, for a period of time you and the copy both exist.

Subsequently you are killed in a event completely unrelated to the copying process.

With the copy still alive, are you still alive?

From my perspective the answer would be no.

'0'
 
I would use the heck out of it - to move cargo. I'd put UPS and FedEx out of business. Would I put myself or someone I care about through it in the normal way? No way, for reasons already stated by others: the copy isn't me. Now, I might make copies if I could reproduce Riker's accident. I like myself enough to know that we'd get along famously and make a ton of money - not to mention the sex benefits, which I will not go into but I'm sure pretty much anyone who has given any real thought to Troi's situation in the first episode with Thomas Riker has considered. ;)
 
Too bad Trek shied away from episodes about religion. They could have had a great episode where a conscientious objector to transporter use has to be emergency beamed up and then subsequently accuses the captain on behalf of his own murder.
 
^ I doubt Starfleet would allow crewmembers to object to transporter use. There's just too much likelihood of it being essential.

They didn't let McCoy opt out, did they?
 
It's doubtful that anyone who refused to use the transporter, for whatever reason, would be allowed to join Starfleet.


'0'
 
^ I doubt Starfleet would allow crewmembers to object to transporter use. There's just too much likelihood of it being essential.

They didn't let McCoy opt out, did they?
Not until he was an Admiral. By which point, the *real* McCoy had been dead a long time and so had many, many transporter produced replicas of him.

OK, then it could have been a visiting scientist of the week.
Or really, pretty much any time the hero ship has flown in to respond to a distress call and beamed an alien crew out just before their ship explodes, with no time to explain transporters or ask if it is okay.
 
Using a transporter: nay. To go by what we see on the shows, the chances are too high that I'll wind up split up between two bodies, stuck dealing with an evil twin, get randomly recombined with somebody else, get beamed into a wacky alternate universe or just straight up die horribly and explode.
 
If the transporter was a kill/copy machine, then no, I wouldn't use it. However the transporter as portrayed in the series does not seem to be regarded by such (doesn't Emory say something to that effect in ENT 'Daedalus'?). Everyone treats it as a way of getting themselves---not some exact copy---from A to B.
 
Well, the current me right now is entirely different matter than the Phil Lynch of 10 years ago, right? Ship of Theseus paradox and all that. So what's the dif if it happens much quicker? After a transporter, the new me has all my memories, so "Phil Lynch" with all his awesomeness and suckishness goes on, even if it is a copy. And the copy feels like it's still me.

And I think it highly probable the "soul" is made-up. (No offense if you think otherwise.)

So sure. It gets me down to the planet with heroic people and a yeoman who is also hot, to have adventures. Unless my shirt be red.
 
Well, the current me right now is entirely different matter than the Phil Lynch of 10 years ago, right? Ship of Theseus paradox and all that. So what's the dif if it happens much quicker?

In one case, that of biological aging, Phil has worked as a continuous system (cells being replaced in a continuously functioning system, just as the "working" ship of Theseus continues to function as a system as one plank is replaced at a time) over time. In another case, that of teleportation, there is a discontinuity. You cease to exist, however briefly, as a system. Your matter is converted into energy (all the planks shattered into sawdust) and then rearranged in a different space. A system, indistinguishably similar to your own, appears in a different space.

Consider that, by your logic, one might murder you in five minutes without harming you. This would NOT do you (present you, pre-five-minutes-from-now-you) any harm. Or perhaps let's make it five days or five years. I think you would object that future you is still you - at least in any case where this was a real-world situation removed from the cozy confines of philosophical reasoning.

The Ship of Theseus line of reasoning pushes us to accept a purely functionalist reading of identity. Under this view, we would view "you" as a sort of computer program or computer file like an MP3. So long as the information is conserved and reinstantiated in a functioning system, there is no loss. And if the only thing that causes us to resist this line is a lingering superstition about "souls," then it would seem that we have no good reason to object to stepping on the transporter pad. But identity might not lie in any soul or in mere functionality.

I think prudential reasoning would or should stop you from hopping in the transporter.

______________

I might allow for a replicator transporter to make a copy of me somewhere else. Perhaps my copy would materialize on a starship and observe great adventures. But would I (the original) really feel like I was one with my copy who warped away from Earth and never returned? No. I would feel cheated. I would wish that "I" were the one on the starship and NOT my copy. A conventional transporter, however, would not put me on the starship either! "I" would be destroyed and a perfect copy would enjoy all those adventures. In neither case (duplicator or destroyer) would I (as I understand myself as a conscious creature) be able to get to the ship by using the transporter. Without benefit of a shuttle craft, I would have to resign myself to accepting that I would never really know (first hand) what it is like to be on a starship (if Tapestry and Below Decks are any indicator, however, perhaps it's not all it's all that great!).
 
I'm watching TOS: The Tholian Web right now, and have noticed something possibly atypical in a transporter sequence, if anyone more skilled in technobabble theory wants to study the scene. I don't seem to have a counter display available on my dvd player, so I'll have to describe the scene. I'm watching an old dvd that has the original effects, on an old fashioned picture tube made in the late 20th century. If you're watching on one of those newfangled flat screens, your mileage may vary. If this looks too long for you to read, my apologies.

1. Defiant: Spock, McCoy, and Chekov are preparing to beam back. Kirk tells Scott to energize.
2. Enterprise: Scott acknowledges and initiates transport. We see 3 faint beam-ins momentarily, which then fade.
3. Defiant: the Spock's group is still standing there, shifting their weight slightly as Kirk watches.
4. Enterprise: Scott monkeys with the controls and tries again.
5. Exterior: Defiant blinks slightly, nearly disappearing in one frame, but immediately returns.
6. Defiant: more standing around.
7. Enterprise: Scott works the slider bars. Spock and party materialize and Spock orders Scott to beam over Kirk.
8. Defiant: Kirk stands around, perhaps checking the bridge readouts.
9. Enterprise: Chekov turns on the viewer while Scott and his assistant keep working.
10. Defiant: Kirk still seems to be looking at the bridge displays.
11. Enterprise: the viewer shows the Defiant nearly disappear again, but it's barely visible in one frame before it returns.
12. Defiant: Kirk waits.
13. Enterprise: we see the Defiant completely disappear, Chekov announces it's vanished. Attempts to lock on are unsuccessful.

The odd thing about all this to me is we never see any beam out effects on the Defiant. The heavy effects cost of this episode is probably the real world reason for this. All transporter effects for this sequence are on the Enterprise.

So in this particular case, we don't see the subject disintegrate before starting to appear at the destination. Could this be happening all the time? Could it signify that some sort of anchor is established as part of the normal process? Could the subject's consciousness/soul be what's being anchored prior to disintegration?

It's 2am here so none of this may make any sense.
 
Could it signify that some sort of anchor is established as part of the normal process? Could the subject's consciousness/soul be what's being anchored prior to disintegration?

It's 2am here so none of this may make any sense.

Well, if you're going in for a traditional soul, then trenknobabble is out of it. What can we really say about the properties of a soul?

As for consciousness, I don't see how it could anchor identity in the way you suggest. There are classic thought experiments which challenge the idea that consciousness is an all-or-nothing sort of affair.

That is, unless I am misreading you. Not sure.
 
I'm only using those two terms as I'd seen them mentioned in a few of the posts. I'm just trying to throw out ideas based on what I'd watched, to see if it helps support any of those earlier theories. I'm not personally advocating either position.
 
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