Trek's lowest moment
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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If you met a person from the 1850s and he asked you "Where do I go to buy a slave?" How would you respond to him? Would you really be respectful of his viewpoint?
I have a hard time thinking of examples where the cast were that directly smug, and it wasn't a case where people were being harmed/enslaved/persecuted, except maybe The Neutral Zone and Encounter at Farpoint. There's a difference between tolerating differing opinions and enabling them to inflict harm on others based on those opinions.
I have a hard time thinking of examples where the cast were that directly smug, and it wasn't a case where people were being harmed/enslaved/persecuted, except maybe The Neutral Zone and Encounter at Farpoint. There's a difference between tolerating differing opinions and enabling them to inflict harm on others based on those opinions.
That's easy: just say "You can't, because we don't do that anymore" and then leave. No need to cop an attitude.
None of the 20th-century characters in "The Neutral Zone" had any potential or ability to inflict harm, and they certainly were not down to the level of slavery.
Hey now, I like that episode.
There are way worse moments than that IMO.
-TATV (whole thing)
-Seven and Chakotay getting together
-The entire episode of "Masks" in TNG
-Tom and Janeway making lizard babies (although I do love that episode for it's wackiness)
-Riker always putting his leg up and displaying his junk whenever a woman is around (not literally but you know what I mean lol)
-Crusher talking to some ghost alien and thinking they are lovers (I forget the episode title) but that was facepalmig
-Troi and Worf getting together
With compassion, certainly initially, I would inform them that slavery has been outlawed in the America, but they can hire employees if they require workers.
If in the 24th century, while not something I would do myself, if they want to experience what it's like to buy a slave we have this thing down the corridor called a "holodeck" where they can ...
I would take into account where they're from first, slavery could have been the standard of their society, and they easily could see it as the norm. I would (as stated above) inform them that the practice of chattel slavery is illegal here.
I would also let pass that I consider the practice to be wrong.
If they absolutely insisted on possessing a slave here in America, there's alway the S&M community.
On the surface I would tentatively agree with that. However, differing opinions (especially if you don't agree with them) should be protected.
Actions are a different matter.
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If someone from 1850 suddenly found himself in 2014, I think he'd have more on his mind than where to buy a slave.
If someone from 1850 suddenly found himself in 2014, I think he'd have more on his mind than where to buy a slave.
American Horror Story comes to mind. It wasn't quite an accurate picture of modern race relations, but it did show a racist from that time just absolutely enraged that a black man had become president, and that black folks could be treated with respect. That's a start
If someone from 1850 suddenly found himself in 2014, I think he'd have more on his mind than where to buy a slave.
American Horror Story comes to mind. It wasn't quite an accurate picture of modern race relations, but it did show a racist from that time just absolutely enraged that a black man had become president, and that black folks could be treated with respect. That's a start
"We don't sell slaves in this establishment, sir, but I'd like to help you out. No one will take those gold coins. Give them to me and I'll give you these very valuable paper dollars in return. Glad to help. Have a nice day."
It was a lot more common to see Picard say something like this:
Jean-Luc said:
Than something like this:
Jean-Luc said:
Apart from Picard running down the Ligonians in that latter quote from Code of Honor, I can't think of many examples of characters in TNG actually denigrating or mocking less "advanced" cultures. Occasionally coming off as a touch condescending and certain of their own achievements, sure -- which was leavened by their having some genuine achievements to point at, it's fair to say -- but it's a far less common dynamic than popular imagination seems now to deem it to be, and they more often had some nuance about it and willingness to see their own flaws.
I think it's developing into one of those things that people falsely "remember" to have "always" happened on TNG in the same way that in TOS Kirk is imagined to have "always" been hopping into bed with green-skinned women.
I remember some Ex-Army guys getting massively PO'ed when Picard called the American Army Uniform Q called a "costume".
If any of us saw the way French Aristocrats dressed about 200 years ago, I'm pretty sure we'd think of them as bizarre costumes too.
It seems like it's only the 20th century that's not allowed to be disrespected.
If any of us saw the way French Aristocrats dressed about 200 years ago, I'm pretty sure we'd think of them as bizarre costumes too.
It seems like it's only the 20th century that's not allowed to be disrespected.
Yep. I was going to mention that, too.
It's not just some obscure example buried deep in the first season somewhere. It happens right out of the gate, in the first few minutes of "Encounter at Farpoint". People aren't misremembering anything. From the episode:
What makes Picard's lines even more unintentionally ironic, beyond what Anwar said, is that Picard is himself in uniform, complete with rank pips. The lines are subject to further criticism, on account of out-of-universe irony, by the fact that it is Patrick Stewart who is actually in costume there. It's unfortunate that Q's boldfaced line, which is actually rather brilliant and pointed, has to be undermined by being placed among the really ham-fisted, condescending, and frankly embarrassing nonsense that Picard has to say.
Add the fact that they changed or redesigned the uniform around every 3 years about 4 times.
It looked more like for vanity reasons than logistics.
It looked more like for vanity reasons than logistics.
STAR TREK seems replete with "Lowest Moments," does it not? How could any one of them ever hope to be singled out as THE lowest? There's so many!
Again, if common Joe ran into someone dressed up like a French Aristocrat from the 1700s, would he think "Wow, that's cool!" or would he think "Wow, what a weird costume..."?
Folks in the 24th Century are under no obligation to worship the 20th Century and think everything we did was awesome or everything we wore was great. It's fully possible they will look back at our clothing and think, by their standards, that it was all bizarre.
The Jason Alexander "Ultimate Trek: Star Trek's Greatest Moments" - it's horrible, for one, and the actor playing McCoy (Dana Gould) 'dies' to kick off the tribute to DeForest Kelley who had died the previous year.
At the end, Kirk (Alexander), Spock, and McCoy end up taking position on Voyager's bridge for some reason.
At the end, Kirk (Alexander), Spock, and McCoy end up taking position on Voyager's bridge for some reason.
Trek's lowest moment was when it used absurd pseudoscience straight out of late nineteenth century "racial science" and early 20th century eugenics to justify passively committing genocide. Then to top it off, they congratulate themselves on their "moral sophistication" and use it as a basis for the odious Prime Directive.
When Picard was calling the uniform a "costume", I am pretty sure it was ment as critism for the medals decorating the uniforms. The Trek uniforms are all simple in design, reduced to rank and department, the most basic information about the position one has in the team - nothing that decorates the ego of the person wearing it, unlike many uniforms do today.
Take a look at the dress uniforms of Kirk's era. They have those.
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