Something about Redemption Part II

[jimbotron]

If it's one thing TNG really cheaped out on, it's the secondary bridge sets. The bridges of Romulan Warbirds are a joke, especially considering how much bigger they are than the Galaxy Class.

You can always tell they were just walls and a chair, except for the occasional usage of the redressed battle bridge set.

What struck me as odd was DS9's Jem'Hadar where the Odyssey (Galaxy Class) had a small boxy bridge. They couldn't find a day to use the TNG bridge set?

 

[Armored Saint]

The Ent-C's disappearance didn't do anything to cause the war, odds are the war was already going to happen.

What stopped the war was their sacrifice.

Why would they have answered to a Klingon distress signal if they were already at war? There was a small war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire and a big war between the Federation and the Romulan Empire, so it was correct for Starfleet to help Klingon ships against Romulan ships?

 

[Robert Comsol]

Recorded events in "our" universe:

PICARD: Enterprise C? She was lost at the battle of Narendra III, defending a Klingon outpost from the Romulans.

Recorded events in the parallel timeline of "Yesterday's Enterprise":

DATA: The Enterprise C was last seen near the Klingon outpost Narendra Three exactly twenty two years, three months and four days ago.

CASTILLO: We were negotiating a peace treaty when I left.

GARRETT: We were responding to a distress call from the Klingon outpost on Narendra Three. The Romulans were attacking it. We engaged them, but there were four warbirds.

GARRETT: We barely escaped with our lives. If we returned, we'd be destroyed.

GARRETT [OC]: This is Captain Garrett of the Starship Enterprise, to any Federation ship. We have been attacked by Romulan warships and require immediate assistance. We've lost warp drive. Life support is failing.

GARRETT: There was a fierce volley of photon torpedoes. We were hit. A bright light, and then here.

RIKER: There's no record of the Romulans ever assaulting the Enterprise C.

The big "something" about "Redemption II", however, is that according to Guinan (and Sela) Tasha was sent into the past by Captain Picard, which is not what happened in "Yesterday's Enterprise", so historic events in both realities don't necessarily need to match.

Bob

 

[miklatov]

in the real timeline, the Ent-C is destroyed. Obvious wreckage, prisoners, and survivors to tell the story. lot easier to see how peace can come from that.

Exactly what I was thinking - Even in the absence of survivors there could have even been a flight recorder from the Ent-C floating around in the wreckage (hopefully with any bits from the future erased! ) and presumably bits of hull that were damaged by Romulan weaponry. Wouldn't take a Sher'lar Kohms to put two and two together.

No Ent-C wreckage = Federation cowards - They are without honour!
Ent-C wreckage = They fought with honour!

 

[Dukhat]

It's all right there in the episode.

As Anwar stated, the Enterprise-C did not cause the war (I believe Castillo or Garrett even said that there was a peace treaty in the works when they left). In the normal timeline, it responded to the Klingons' distress call and was destroyed while fighting off the Romulan attackers of Narendra III. When the ship was destroyed, two things happened:

1. Survivors of the Ent-C were captured by the Romulans (including the alternate Tasha Yar).

2. The Klingons saw the Ent-C's sacrifice on their behalf as honorable, and decided to become friends with the Federation.


When the Ent-C was taken out of the equation because of the spacial anomaly, two things happened:

1. There were no Ent-C survivors, because there was no Ent-C to battle the Romulans.

2. Because there was no Ent-C to battle the Romulans, Narendra III was completely destroyed. Even if the Klingons there had known that the Ent-C at least tried to answer their distress call, they all got killed when the Romulans attacked.

Because in the altered timeline there were no witnesses to the attack, it became a non-event, and at some point later on relations between the Federation and the Klingons deteriorated. Whatever peace treaty had started pre-2344 went down the toilet, and the two powers started a war.

When alternate-Picard sent the Ent-C back to 2344 (with alternate-Yar, who was always supposed to go back too), the timeline corrected itself.


It's just like the "Data's head buried in 1800's San Francisco" thing. In JJ Abrams's nuTrek, Data's head is still buried in San Fran in the JJverse (because it shares a common past with the Prime unverse) even though Data will most likely not even exist in this new timeline (or his circumstances will be radically different than the prime timeline).

 

[Robert Comsol]

Am I the only wondering why the Klingons would start a war against those that came to their rescue (Federation) and not against the attacker (Romulan Star Empire)?

Even if the Federation had withdrawn from these peace treaty negotiations (in order not to be drawn into a Klingon-Romulan war), the foremost enemy of the Klingons still remained the Romulans.

Klingons may be irrational but I don't think they'd ever be that stupid to exhaust their military supplies in a war with the Federation, being aware they would fall prey to the Romulans eventually.

Bob

 

[Dukhat]

Am I the only wondering why the Klingons would start a war against those that came to their rescue (Federation) and not against the attacker (Romulan Star Empire)?

In the altered timeline the Klingons didn't know that the Ent-C came to the rescue because the ship vanished before it could successfully fend off the Romulan attackers. The Romulans then completely destroyed Narendra III before anyone knew who did it, and presumably left no survivors as witnesses. Then the Klingons might never have known who actually destroyed the outpost.

 

[Anwar]

Am I the only wondering why the Klingons would start a war against those that came to their rescue (Federation) and not against the attacker (Romulan Star Empire)?

Even if the Federation had withdrawn from these peace treaty negotiations (in order not to be drawn into a Klingon-Romulan war), the foremost enemy of the Klingons still remained the Romulans.

Klingons may be irrational but I don't think they'd ever be that stupid to exhaust their military supplies in a war with the Federation, being aware they would fall prey to the Romulans eventually.

Bob

Throughout all of Trek, the Klingons and Feds have been seen more as equals with the Romulans being a little bit behind them (and trying to get ahead). The Klingons probably would go to war with the ones they always saw as a true rival over the less powerful one.

Until DS9 and the Cardassians, of course.

 

[jimbotron]

I figured the Klingon/Federation war occurred in the YE timeline because the Enterprise-C responded to the distress call and disappeared after they were attacked. The Klingons would have interpreted that as a cowardly and dishonorable act.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Am I the only wondering why the Klingons would start a war against those that came to their rescue (Federation) and not against the attacker (Romulan Star Empire)?

In the altered timeline the Klingons didn't know that the Ent-C came to the rescue because the ship vanished before it could successfully fend off the Romulan attackers. The Romulans then completely destroyed Narendra III before anyone knew who did it, and presumably left no survivors as witnesses. Then the Klingons might never have known who actually destroyed the outpost.

That wasn't a question I was asking because I had already provided myself the above theory how to make sense of the events two weeks ago:

Intermission – The mission objective of the Enterprise-C

The plot premise of “Yesterday’s Enterprise” revolves around the apparent necessity of the Enterprise-C to distract the Romulan warbirds attacking (and eventually destroying) the Klingon outpost at Narendra III long enough to ensure the escape of some Klingon survivors to be able to later tell what actually happened.

• The Romulans probably made a stealth attack with the intention to destroy the outpost, first took out the outpost’s long range communications (which wouldn’t be without historic precedent) and next any potential eye-witnesses, hoping then to somehow frame the UFP (possible with the help of the Duras family)
• The Enterprise-C responded to the distress call (short range communications) from the Klingon outpost (during peace treaty negotiations between the United Federation of Planets and the Klingons). Starfleet, however, and apparently the Klingon High Command never learned what was going on (“other” Riker: “There's no record of the Romulans ever assaulting the Enterprise-C”)
• The Enterprise-C arrived and engaged the four warbirds, but was crippled by a “fierce volley of photon torpedoes” and then disappeared into the future. Apparently the “C” didn’t destroy one warbird (“other” Riker: “Captain Garrett says there were four Romulan warbirds. The Enterprise-C would be outmanned and outgunned.”)
• The Enterprise-C returned to the battle, patched up, recharged and with Tasha Yar’s tactical competence (but with just as much chances as a snowball in hell according to realistic expectations) – and must have distracted the warbirds long enough and thus enable one or some Klingon survivors to escape unnoticed by the Romulans and to tell what really happened: “Enterprise-C? She was lost at the Battle of Narendra III, defending a Klingon outpost from the Romulans.” (Picard in “Redemption, Part II”).
• The “C” and the Klingon outpost were destroyed by one or some of the Romulan warbirds. The survivors of the Enterprise-C were abducted to Romulus (“other” Picard: “The Narendra Three outpost was destroyed. It is regrettable that you did not succeed. A Federation starship rescuing a Klingon outpost might have averted twenty years of war.” Unlike Picard, the “other” Riker correctly grasps the situation: “That won't accomplish anything, sir. There's no way they can save Narendra III.”)

Nevertheless, it's nice to see that we can agree on something.

Bob

 

[Dukhat]

That wasn't a question I was asking...

Certainly sounded like a question to me. If you're just going to post rhetorical questions so you can keep redirecting things to another post that I have no intention of reading or contributing to, please make that clearer next time so I won't bother wasting my time answering them.