Most dated Star Trek episode or movie

[HIjol]

Neelix was keeping you busy, huh?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact...how could you know?...seems there was some issue with herbs he needed for his famous "Heart of Targ" recipe...just my luck to draw duty...would much rather have had a mushroom, pepperoni and extra onion pizza, with an ice cold Michelob...

 

[Smellmet]

TMP has obviously dated, but it has a classic/epic feel to it that the other movies rarely managed, combined with it's incredible score, I look at it a lot more fondly these days, and see it for what it was, a very ambitious movie of it's time. A perfect example of this is TFF, which came out a decade later, but boasts crappy sets, and by far the worst visual effects in the entire series. It look bad in 1989 and looks positively dreadful now - compare it to another film from the same year, The Abyss (which had admittedly a higher budget) and you'll see what I mean, that film has the X-Factor that I was using to describe TMP.

Beyond these I think First Contact and to a lesser extent Insurrection have dated quite badly also.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

^First Contact dated? Thou surely jests.

 

[Smellmet]

Absolutely it has, I watched it the other day for the first time in a while and, yes I think it has dated a lot, it looks the older film than Generations in fact and bar the odd sequence (fleet battle and spacewalk) it looks like a TV show - everything has a small scale feel to it, especially the scenes on Earth. Even some of the Borg just have a 'bloke in a rubber suit' feel and look to them. Some of the visuals look a bit sub par too these days - earth from space being a culprit that comes to mind.

I used to to love First Contact, and I still like it, but it's sheen is long gone and I know think it has been a tad overrated down the years.

 

[{ Emilia }]

"Code of Honor" is by far the most dated episode in my opinion. Its blatant racist undertones are so awkward and out of place in TNG.

To quote Jonathan Frakes it was a "racist piece of shit".

 

[The Old Mixer]

I knew that "Eden" would take a beating, but I think that in-universe, the explanation for the space hippies works...they're idealistic naturalists in a technological "utopia". And in reality, I consider it to be a fun little sign o' the times.

I'll go with "Turnabout Intruder" for having inexcusable in-universe implications that still stir up debate today. (And please, let's leave it at that...the last thing we need is Yet Another Endless Janice Lester Thread.)

Most timeless is tough...somebody nominated "The City of the Edge of Forever", that sounds about right.

^What's even more dated about "The Game" is how totally lame the game actually is. Even Pong is more complicated.

But Pong doesn't give you orgasms...

...does it?

The most dated episode? "Space Seed," obviously, since I don't recall any genetically engineered supermen taking control of the planet, causing wars and killing millions of people, then skipping town aboard a sleeper ship back in 1996.

I've said it before: Bill Clinton doesn't get nearly enough credit for the way he handled the Eugenics Wars.

Too bad most Americans were too busy watching the O.J. trial and Tonya & Nancy to pay attention to Khan's rise . . ..

To be fair though, it was only those of us who dressed up as Cybermen or other spacemen in our tin foil hats that escaped the effects when Pres. Clinton used the Star Wars System (That Pres. Reagan installed) to wipe the memories of the whole incident

But it still had its repercussions. Who do you think Monica was really working for...?

"Code of Honor" is by far the most dated episode in my opinion. Its blatant racist undertones are so awkward and out of place in TNG.

To quote Jonathan Frakes it was a "racist piece of shit".

"Code of Honor" isn't so much dated as it was a piece of shit right out of the gate.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

"Code of Honor" is by far the most dated episode in my opinion. Its blatant racist undertones are so awkward and out of place in TNG.

To quote Jonathan Frakes it was a "racist piece of shit".

Well, I disagree with Frakes - a white privileged male - since I see it as an ambitious episode. Trek rarely never did have that many black people onscreen again. And, speaking of racism in Trek - particularly in TNG - Trek rarely seemed to have their black people rarely in intimate relationships with people of other races. Of course, if there was an Asian female, she would be automatically linked up with a white male character and no discussion made about it.

Interestingly, the white people who complain about this episode - Code of Honor - usually want to claim that the episode is racist because a black man has interest in a white female. (Hmm, complaining about racism with racism).

If the episode was so bad, I do wish the Ligonians would have been seen again and expanded upon. Alas, TNG got a lot whiter as the seasons went on anyhow.

For me, the most dated episode probably has to be 'Let This Be Your Last Battlefield.' (The vote probably could have gone to 'This Way to Eden,' but I could easily see that particular episode done in TNG's 1st season).

 

[{ Emilia }]

Interestingly, the white people who complain about this episode usually want to claim that the episode is racist because a black man has interest in a white female. (Hmm, complaining about racism with racism).

From what I've read that is not the main issue most people have with this episode but the portrayal of a "tribal" culture with very archaic rituals and laws that seem uncivilized and barbaric coupled with casting only black actors even though that wasn't part of the script.
I think the original director was fired along the way because of that and Les Landau was hired to somehow finish the episode at least.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Interestingly, the white people who complain about this episode usually want to claim that the episode is racist because a black man has interest in a white female. (Hmm, complaining about racism with racism).

From what I've read that is not the main issue most people have with this episode but the portrayal of a "tribal" culture with very archaic rituals and laws that seem uncivilized and barbaric coupled with casting only black actors even though that wasn't part of the script.
I think the original director was fired along the way because of that and Les Landau was hired to somehow finish the episode at least.

I still don't see a major fail.

It's almost as if someone's faux pas actually turned into something that could actually be, as aforementioned, ambitious. Again, if the episode was so allegedly bad (it wasn't) it would have been awesome for the producers to come back to this world and expand on them.

There are TNG fans that gush over season 3 - 6. Well, Season 3 could have had the Ligonians return, and show them as a culture that was on the level of the Vulcans. Or even a higher level.

Too, Western (e.g. American) culture is pretty good in pushing Eurocentric ideas and pushing the idea that anything Afrocentric is bad. For instance, I don't see anything wrong with the Ligonians being inspired by African tribal cultures, as well as being inspired by Asian influences. However, I do see a potential problem where it is the white TNG officers coming down to save the Ligonian civilization, which I didn't really see happen.

At the time, I had a schoolboy crush on Tasha Yar, so I thought it was kinda interesting to see a black man interested in her....and Yar in him. (I still find Lt. Yar pretty cool, and was upset when Denise Crosby left after the 1st Season).

They should have got someone like Stephen Barnes, or the amazing Octavia Butler to write an episode featuring the return of the Ligonians. Octavia Butler has actually written amazing - yes, that word again - interracial stories, as well as stories that have Asian characters. However, it's easy for the white producers to just claim 'racism' and bury the idea.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I still don't see a major fail.

That's your opinion. You still can't explain away the racist content. If it doesn't bother you then there's nothing I can do to change that.

It's almost as if someone's faux pas actually turned into something that could actually be, as aforementioned, ambitious.

There isn't anything ambitious about this stereotypical casting. An all-black cast portraying a civilization where women fight to the death over men and everybody acts like a savage isn't ambitious either.
You're trying to be oh-so-edgy here by saying they could've turned that around but that's not what's on the screen.

And it's not just white people complaining about that episode either. Just saying before you start complaining about "political correctness".

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I still don't see a major fail.

That's your opinion. You still can't explain away the racist content. If it doesn't bother you then there's nothing I can do to change that.

Just like it's your opinion that the episode is racist.

There isn't anything ambitious about this stereotypical casting. An all-black cast portraying a civilization where women fight to the death over men and everybody acts like a savage isn't ambitious either.

Yeah, well, the entire 1st season had Michael Dorn portraying a savage. And, majority of TNG had black male guests portraying Klingons. Every Asian female on the show was automatically paired with a white male, while black characters were primarily regulated to staying with one another in regards to intimate relationships. So, there has been a lot more stereotyical casting in Star Trek, particularly TNG.

You're trying to be oh-so-edgy here by saying they could've turned that around but that's not what's on the screen.

And it's not just white people complaining about that episode either. Just saying before you start complaining about "political correctness".

I don't know what you mean by the comment 'oh-so-edgy.' It's not necessarily rocket science to ask a professional writer - the aforementioned Steven Barnes or Octavia Butler - to expand on a alien race, especially if they think it might be offensive. In this case, towards African Americans.

As for the term 'PC,' I also don't know what you mean. In my experience, it's usually white individuals who use it when people ask for more diversity in the media, or complain about things in the media that may be offensive.

And I'm sure there aren't just white people complaining about Code of Honor, but the white fans (and white cast members of TNG) are the more vocal about this particular episode. I don't recall hearing anything in Ebony magazine, or Jet magazine, or anything from the NAACP...Al Sharpton...or Jesse Jackson. Just primarily white Star Trek fans on Star Trek fan boards continually bringing the episode up.

 

[Christopher]

"Code of Honor" is by far the most dated episode in my opinion. Its blatant racist undertones are so awkward and out of place in TNG.

To quote Jonathan Frakes it was a "racist piece of shit".

The thing about "Code of Honor" is that it's racially dated in ways most viewers don't even realize. What stands out for most viewers are the "African" accents and the perception that the Ligonians are a tribal African stereotype, but they weren't scripted that way at all. They're actually a hodgepodge of Hollywood Orientalist and noble-savage cliches. The scripters reportedly modeled them largely on samurai culture, while the dialogue likens them to imperial China and mentions their use of Native American-style "counting coup." And their wardrobe is based on Hollywood-style Middle Eastern and Southeast Asian costuming conventions, with a bit of futuristic material added to create an "alien" impression. So basically the script threw in a whole bunch of the "exotic Other" cliches you would've seen throughout '60s and '70s TV, mostly Orientalist stereotypes. (Not really so different from the Capellans of "Friday's Child," say, or the "Space Mongol" Klingons of TOS.) It was the director's decision to cast them as all-black and have the actors use "African" accents, adding a whole other level of racial complication that tends to overshadow the rest in most viewers' eyes.

 

[RandyS]

Most Dated: "The Way To Eden"

Most Timeless: "The Inner Light" [They could broadcast this, and they likely will, in a century and its heartfelt story will still touch emotions]

So, in 100 years it'll still be annoying the hell out of people?

Seems fair, I guess.

Now, to answer the question:

Most dated: TOS' "The Way to Eden"

Most timeless: I'm not sure.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

Most Dated: "The Way To Eden"

Most Timeless: "The Inner Light" [They could broadcast this, and they likely will, in a century and its heartfelt story will still touch emotions]

So, in 100 years it'll still be annoying the hell out of people?

In what way is it annoying people?

 

[Push The Button]

THE VOYAGE HOME feels the most "dated," to me. It's completely forgettable. The humour is lame, the action is weak and to cap it all off, if that's the phrase, there is no tension in this movie. Nothing's really at stake, other than bussing a tank of whales in the invisible ship of makebelieve. It's not even that they visit the 80's that dates it, it's the script, the ad libs and Nimoy's direction. There's nothing pan-generational about this film. It's of it's day - that's it and all about it.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought IV was meh. The only scene I like at all is the one where Bones and Scotty are giving Nichols the formula for transparent aluminum. That's cool. The rest is a self-indulgent bore.

Scotty, my favorite character, using a Mac, my favorite computer. That scene always puts me into geek overload.

"Hello Computer?"

 

[RAMA]

One thing I love about STNG-R is how it shows how much of a cinematic quality seeps into a TV show that is now revealed through the obvious visual depth and clarity of HD, and how a show from the late 80s and early 90s actually doesn't look so dated.

Now TOS, that has looked dated since Space:1999, Star Wars, etc. In fact, one thing that shocked me about Lolani is how closely it mimicked the "tone" and pace of TOS, and how the nostalgia trip kind of backfires and makes TOS seem even more dated, as opposed to JJ Abram's movies for example, which make the same in-universe period seem fresh. I didn't completely dislike Lolani, there was a lot of effort and some good script moments, but I kept just wanting them to have her ask for asylum..problem solved.

RAMA

 

[Shawnster]

As well, this kind of stupid episode had been on TV for a while (and was the plot of a 1968 movie also made by Paramount.) Nobody making it seemed to notice that said space hippies had no Vietnam War to bedevil them, no threat of nuclear Armageddon to destroy them and no having lived in the 20th century on Earth in the United States for them to even be getting any idea about how 'unnatural' society was. Also, nobody seemed to notice that the lead hippie is an old man by hippy standards and might have been told to get lost or go away (another thing shared with the above-mentioned movie, which has an old man in a bowler hat among a bunch of young flower children!)

Actually, the age factor was not an issue with the hippie generation in the 60s. Timothy Leary influenced a lot of kids in the 60s, and he was born in 1920, making him 49 by the time Way to Eden aired. Charles Manson was born in 1934 and his cult following started in 1967, when he was about 33. Coincidentally, Skip Homeier, who played Dr. Severin, was also born in 1934. So the actor playing the part of this cult leader was the exact same age as a real cult leader from the same time.

 

[The Old Mixer]

And IIRC, Skip Homeier played the judge of the Manson trial in Helter Skelter....

(Cue Twilight Zone theme...or "Helter Skelter"....)

 

[T'Girl]

Interestingly, the white people who complain about this episode usually want to claim that the episode is racist because a black man has interest in a white female.

Which would indicate they didn't pay attention to the storyline, the leader wasn't personally attracted to Yar, he simply saw her as someone who could be manipulated into killing his wife. According to the story this wasn't the first time he attempted this.

It wasn't sexual desire, it was greed. he wanted his wife's property

How is two women fighting over man more racist than what we saw in Amok Time? Or when Scotty tried to fight Apollo over Carolyn. Or Kirk fighting Flint over Rayna. Or Rojan fighting Kirk for Kelinda's attentions and succeeding.

Given all the "white planets" we saw on screen, we should have seen many more "black planets," not just the one.

Racist my ass.

 

[Maurice]

Afraid to say you are wrong, Flappy Bird was a very addictive and low res game for mobile phones.

It's faux low res. It's not actually low res.

Even after seeing that ghastly chest hair and foofy 1980s 'do...

That word doesn't mean what it appears you think it means.