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Where Nomad Has Gone Before? Not exactly...

I admit that I have a real soft spot for TMP. Unpopular though the pyjama uniforms are, the ships and the overall constitution of the crew has never looked better. If they had gone as far as ST09 and given each of the supporting cast a couple of character moments to shine, spread throughout the movie instead of concentrated, such as they are, in the very early part, I think it would be my favourite too.

I think the uniforms are perfect for the tone of TMP--just like the pilots, each a chillier work of SF than the series in regular production: no red and orange hi-lights in "The Cage," muted gold and pale blue uniforms, no bright red shirts and no micro-mini-dresses in both pilots. The color scheme of the sets and uniforms in TMP suggest that this is a science fiction film first, a Star Trek film second. Each subsequent film was most definitely Star Trek first. There's nothing wrong with that but I like the air of unfamiliarity in TMP.
 
Sadly, I have to say that I enjoyed the OP of this thread more than I enjoyed TMP itself. The pacing of your post was far better, and in my opinion, that was the downfall of the first movie. I couldn't care less about the notion that it somehow ripped off the premise of "The Changeling" or some other episode - sure, it's similar to some, but sometimes events in real life ARE similar to one another. I had no problem with the message or it not being an "action movie". But even without requiring an action movie, TWELVE MINUTES of beauty shot flyby of what is, yes, a beautiful ship is still way, way too much. And those shots of people walking across the primary hull are neat, especially for the time period when they were filmed, but they're also just way, way too long. Sometimes less is more, and I also think Robert Wise was a little too in love with paying homage to Stanley Kubrick.
 
Over the years I've seen people compare TMP to 2001: A Space Odyssey or saying that TMP was a 2001 wannabe. I never could get that connection. The two films are differnt animals.

The only similarities I see are that both seem rather sterile in presentation, but again I find this a falsehood because there's actually a lot of colour in each. The other similarity is that both films try to deal with big ideas. That certainly isn't the same as saying Robert Wise was ripping off or trying to pay homage to Stanley Kubrick.
 
Both are ambitious science fiction movies with deliberate--if not glacial--pacing. Most fans and critics didn't want Star Trek to be that, and i understand why: TOS, while a breakthrough for taking its science fiction millieu seriously, was much less self-serious and focused on tightly paced adventure and very human drama. TMP is thus dismissed as too-big-for-its-britches, with TWoK a necessary corrective. I get it, I can even sympathize--I'm the one who says that Star Trek, at its usual best, is one part Shakespeare and two parts Buster Crabbe. TMP was one part NASA (seriously--with the Enterprise orbitter and Voyager, the movie is a celebration of the late 70s space program) and two parts Arthur C. Clarke. It's still Star Trek to me, though, and I like the pacing.
 
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I admit that I have a real soft spot for TMP. Unpopular though the pyjama uniforms are, the ships and the overall constitution of the crew has never looked better. If they had gone as far as ST09 and given each of the supporting cast a couple of character moments to shine, spread throughout the movie instead of concentrated, such as they are, in the very early part, I think it would be my favourite too.

I think the uniforms are perfect for the tone of TMP--just like the pilots, each a chillier work of SF than the series in regular production: no red and orange hi-lights in "The Cage," muted gold and pale blue uniforms, no bright red shirts and no micro-mini-dresses in both pilots. The color scheme of the sets and uniforms in TMP suggest that this is a science fiction film first, a Star Trek film second. Each subsequent film was most definitely Star Trek first. There's nothing wrong with that but I like the air of unfamiliarity in TMP.

I would've preferred "The Cage" uniforms and bridge set colors for the series, and even this movie. I think the uniforms are the one nitpick I have for TMP. It isn't enough for me to hate the movie (as some others have suggested over the years on this board), but the single-piece jumper was an eyesore. I am not in love with the movie uniforms from the rest of the Trek films. They are very militant and the red is too bright. They looked very hot (sweaters underneath the red jacket?) and they are dated today, as much as the TMP unis. I would have preferred something more classic like "The Cage" uniforms.

All this talk about fashion, though...it doesn't matter to me how they dress themselves. The story, the acting, the scope, the search for fulfillment in all the major characters are interesting to me. The dynamic between the main 3 in TOS (Kirk, Spock, and Bones) was so well-oiled and had such chemistry, that it worked to complete the impossible missions of the Enterprise. This dynamic between Kirk and Decker could have, and they flirted with, imploded the mission. If Kirk is dating the Enterprise, this is a totally new girl. He doesn't know her the way he knew her in the Original Series. It highlights the greatness of the Original Series dynamic.

This is Kirk and Company out of their element when the mission has the highest stakes--all life on Earth could end. Bones is not helping Jim. He's not present on the ship because he wants to be, but because he is forced, and it shows in his actions. Spock has his own agenda and seems barely present. He is connected, emotionally, to V'Ger. And that finally helps in confirming there is an intelligence in the cloud, and they are able to use his insight to better understand V'Ger. This is a real-world problem where personalities and professionalism are as much of the equation as skill, talent, and training.

Then there's the pure science fiction of V'Ger, a creation of our genius wishing to make the next leap in consciousness, being self-aware enough to want to know its creator and how that mirrors our own struggle for purpose--a very universal human experience put in the backdrop of space--speaks to me the way that other Star Trek films fail to do.

I know I am not supposed to indulge my impulse for wrath--it's a deadly sin, to borrow a phrase from the faithful. While it makes sure that the villain will be committed to their cause, and raises the stakes to life and death, I find it tiring to have nothing to think about. I approach a piece of fiction as a writer--what was their intent? what is in the dialogue and how does it contrast with the performance from the actor? What is the writer trying to say here?

It comes from my thought process when I tried to be a writer in my early 20s and so something like uniforms--unless they serve a theme--mean very little to me. Explosions are boring. The suspension of disbelief isn't there during action scenes. I want dialogue or if there is an action scene, let it be more than eye candy. How would a character approach this problem? Would they hesistate? Would they fight with their hands? The character has to stay consistent.

I want action from the actors (like Spock crying, very powerful in TMP). That's just my preference. So in a movie like STID, for instance, I know the dynamic between Kirk and Spock. I know why Kirk acts the way he does, and Spock acts the way that he does. There's nothing new, nothing original to think about. It's the same sheet of music being played by a different band; playing their greatest hits. Does that make them bad movies? No, but it does make for a movie experience, for this fan, where I am dissatisfied.

The three movies from Star Trek I cannot do without are: The Wrath of Khan, The Motion Picture, and Insurrection. The new movies have yet to produce a connection in me. The pace and updated graphics, the callbacks and hallmarks, are not enough to keep me satisfied. And if you are wondering why this is in this thread, it is because I wish they would do a movie in the vein of TMP. Bells and Whistles don't make for a good production, in my opinion.
 
I disagree with your assessment of Bones--of the Big Three, he's the only one who still seems himself. Sure, Kirk had to draft him but, once McCoy is convinced of the enormity of the situation and his friend's genuine need for him, he quickly does just what he's there to do: keep a close eye on the crew ("Jim, you're pushing. Your people know their jobs.") and Kirk's emotional state--it's Bones who makes Kirk realize that he is obsessed with getting the Enterprise back and that his hostility to his XO could jeopardize the mission. He also points out that Spock's telepathic link with Vejur could compromise his loyalty. Repeatedly, Bones works to keep both men from being blinded by their own half-conscious personal agendas.
 
I disagree with your assessment of Bones--of the Big Three, he's the only one who still seems himself. Sure, Kirk had to draft him but, once McCoy is convinced of the enormity of the situation and his friend's genuine need for him, he quickly does just what he's there to do: keep a close eye on the crew ("Jim, you're pushing. Your people know their jobs.") and Kirk's emotional state--it's Bones who makes Kirk realize that he is obsessed with getting the Enterprise back and that his hostility to his XO could jeopardize the mission. He also points out that Spock's telepathic link with Vejur could compromise his loyalty. Repeatedly, Bones works to keep both men from being blinded by their own half-conscious personal agendas.

I disagree. There is an anger in Bones directed at Kirk that is in De Kelly's performance. He may be helping Kirk, but he doesn't want to be there. Contrast him telling Jim "Don't destroy the one named Kirk" to any of the above scenes you mentioned.
 
I'd say the anger is not so much from being back in uniform but from seeing a Kirk who is so far off his game. I'm not sure I'd even call it anger--beyond his cutting, "Wrong, there are casualties: my wits. As in 'frightened out of,' Captain, sir." And that was because Kirk ordered an ill-advised warp, ignoring Bones and Scotty. McCoy is actually doing just what Kirk needed him there to do: keep him honest. The Kirk in "Balance of Terror," plagued by doubt though he may be, is still in full possession of his instincts as a commander and as a tactician. A better comparison, I think, would be how he laid into Kirk over Bailey in "The Corbomite Maneuver."
 
Over the years I've seen people compare TMP to 2001: A Space Odyssey or saying that TMP was a 2001 wannabe. I never could get that connection. The two films are differnt animals.

A 2001 wannabe is not appropriate, IIRC they had just gotten the latest Jupiter images during production of TMP and wanted to make use of these.

But other than that, I agree. Both films tried to achieve a level of realism (or at least to convey this to the audience) and I haven't seen a lot ever since that actually achieved it as good as 2001 and TMP did. :)

Bob
 
TMP was trying to be in the vein of 2001 but it was hardly a wannabe. It was far less a 2001 knock-off than 2009's Star Trek was a knock-off of Star Wars.
 
Both films tried to achieve a level of realism (or at least to convey this to the audience) and I haven't seen a lot ever since that actually achieved it as good as 2001 and TMP did. :)

It always seemed to me that TMP made the greatest use of technical advisors from NASA and elsewhere, and it's such an odd man out with regard to the rest of Star Trek in terms of aesthetics and design, that I sometimes think of it as being the truest vision of Star Trek being our actual future.
 
I thought Nomad to be overpowered, but this was before the concept of Q-balls and especially zero-point energy--a thimble full could vaporize Earth's oceans.
 
We don't know what the true nature of the alien probe Tan-Ru was, but I suspect the Nomad we saw actually was Tan-Ru but with its memory and programming corrupted so that it adopted aspects of the original Nomad launched from Earth.

It's really nonsense because how could two distinctly disparate programming systems or OS actually merge in this way? And what are the freaking chances that two space probes would collide or each have separate accidents before encountering each other? Space is freaking HUGE!

There are quite a few whopping big "gimmes" in this story.
 
Compatible with an OS? How about Spock's OS, capable of melding WITH MACHINES, even though, in "Dagger of the Mind," he said the mind meld involved altering blood flow and manipulating pressure points.

Just go with it, Ray.

Love,
Rey

P.S.: And he does it AGAIN in TMP!
 
Compatible with an OS? How about Spock's OS, capable of melding WITH MACHINES, even though, in "Dagger of the Mind," he said the mind meld involved altering blood flow and manipulating pressure points.

Just go with it, Ray.

Love,
Rey

P.S.: And he does it AGAIN in TMP!
I know. It's just one of the those you don't really think about. :lol:

On the other hand if one was willing to really speculate about the nature of the two A.I's...hmmm...
 
Compatible with an OS? How about Spock's OS, capable of melding WITH MACHINES, even though, in "Dagger of the Mind," he said the mind meld involved altering blood flow and manipulating pressure points.

Just go with it, Ray.

Love,
Rey

P.S.: And he does it AGAIN in TMP!

Doesn't he need to make contact with his fingers (not gloves like he does in TMP)?
 
Compatible with an OS? How about Spock's OS, capable of melding WITH MACHINES, even though, in "Dagger of the Mind," he said the mind meld involved altering blood flow and manipulating pressure points.

Just go with it, Ray.

Love,
Rey

P.S.: And he does it AGAIN in TMP!

Doesn't he need to make contact with his fingers (not gloves like he does in TMP)?
Spock must have a form of organic wi-fi or Bluetooth capability.
 
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