Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

[Sindatur]

As well as getting past the language restrictions. I could see Picard yelling "I'm tired of your shit Q!" Or Data discovering the word fuck and using it in completely inappropriate situations.

Delenn: But...but...Motor Butt? I don't think I like the sound of that <paraphrased>

But, yea, I could totally picture Picard (Or more likely someone like Kira) popping off with something like "I'm tired of your shit, Q" or Data learning to cuss appropriately <queue Double Dumb Ass on you scene>

 

[F. King Daniel]

Rated R Pon Farr would probably get bloody.

STVI showed us that they can get away with having blood everywhere, just so long as it isn't red.

 

[JJohnson]

I voted I want it back. Into Darkness bugged me too much to vote anything else. The Prime line is what I know and love about Star Trek and would love to see a continuation of that. There's too many Prequels and reboots at the moment for me.

I agree. The NuTrek bridge design, ridiculously unbalanced ship design, lack of Vulcan, odd British Khan, emo-Spock, cadet-to-captain-in-days Kirk (seriously?!? Absolutely no one else outranked him on board?), drifter Scotty, one-dimensional McCoy who only spouts one-liners, Uhura snogging a fellow bridge officer, obviously and poorly redressed brewery as engineering, and that's for starters makes me long for the return of real Trek.

That said, if we returned to original Trek, I would be a-ok with bringing a few things over from nuTrek:

-dress uniforms from Into Darkness. They make the service look more real world
-aliens are more prevalent - you see Orions and other aliens walking the ship, which I thought makes more sense.

But with the restoration of real Trek:
-more detail on NCC-1701. Use Deg3D or Vektor's versions of the ship with 3 phaser banks on the top and bottom of the saucer section (seriously having only 1 phaser bank is asking for trouble.). Add nacelle glow when going to warp on the interiors of nacelles, as a tie to TMP. Deg3D and Vektor enhance the original Enterprise without distorting it into a near caricature of itself.
-no pointless hole in the middle of the saucer section for people to fall into
-keep the Carol Marcus, but have her be the lab tech that Gary Mitchell threw Kirk's way. She could be Kirk's Irene Adler, his intellectual equal, and the 'one who got away' that made him dedicate himself to his ship over real long-term relationships.
-give the original Enterprise a real vertical intermix chamber, to tie it in to the rest of Trek, but leave its engineering as we saw in the original series, except for updating the looks of the panels so they actually have some functionality.
-keep the original series bridge, but give it touch panels, NO LENS FLARES, update the buttons themselves with labels, but keep the semi-circular layouts. I don't mind this part of the ship changing from the 60's-future, so long as we don't have such an 'iBridge by Apple' look to everything with distracting, busy panels, lights, and noises overwhelming the senses.
-update the uniform sewing like in ST09, but lose the delta patterns, and keep the ship-specific patches. The Enterprise delta shouldn't be fleetwide yet.
-show commodores and admirals who aren't crazy or incompetent.
-keep the original series' ages and backgrounds and personalities - no emo-Spock, no daredevil Kirk, no super-genius Chekov/Wesley all being at the Academy all at the same time, yet all conceding Kirk as their captain without him having any real experience.
-show how real Kirk experienced Koloth, and perhaps even saved some lives there too.
-show real Kirk defeating the Kobayashi Maru. Nu-Kirk's version of that event didn't seem as real given that character's persona. I can see the real Kirk having beaten it, but not nuKirk.
-show Robert April and Christopher Pike and tie Kirk into the history of the Enterprise somehow, and Jonathan Archer into Robert April's history.
-flesh out Captain Pike's crew, give "Number One" a name and backstory.
-no Spock's Brain episode; other less-than-well-written episodes can be dropped from the timeline
-show ships that are in-line between NX-01 to NCC-1700 (USS Constitution) that give a plausible evolution between the two, and show some actual Daedelus-class ships
-rewrite Khan's history to be that World War III was the Eugenics Wars (an alternate name for it), to explain why our timeline didn't have it, and keep Trek as a possible future for us
-other referenced events from TNG, DS9, VOY from the late 20th/early 21st century that haven't happened still don't happen in the restored timeline.
-change the before-TNG uniforms of the 1701-C to be this or this, then the 3rd season TNG version in the 2350s to 2365, then to this and this for 2366 onward till a bit after the end of Voyager. Then the Star Trek online uniforms.

 

[JJohnson]

Except the people who are saying "I want all Primeverse, no Newverse" are implicitly saying that nothing that would appeal to them can come of the Newverse. Otherwise, why eliminate it entirely?

And yes, the argument does work the same way in reverse, but the poll isn't asking about eliminating the Primeverse, it's asking about eliminating the Newverse.

I watched and bought the Nu-Trek films out of loyalty to Star Trek. But I want the real timeline to be continued, restored, and explored. You could say I do want all-Prime, no Nu-Trek. If it were, I would want the aesthetics updated but very close to the originals. Much closer than Nu-Trek did. One thing Nu-Trek did right is show Orion females in a much better light than the original series or Enterprise managed to do. They were officers in the fleet, and people didn't go crazy around them.

 

[JJohnson]

Some important points:

-Continuity/backstory does NOT equal storytelling style. They could do a series with the fast-paced crazy style of the new movies but set it 50 years after Nemesis and DS9. TOS had a very different style to TNG, which was different to DS9. Stargate Universe had a totally different style to SG-1 and Atlantis, despite being a direct continuation of the universe with cameos from SG-1 and SGA characters.

-Continuity won't be handled any better than it was in Enterprise or the new movies anyway. Trek as a whole hangs together in broad strokes only. Just because they mention the Dominion War doesn't mean they won't make blunders or intentional rewrites as seen in the videos in my signature. Old continuity does not mean they'll do it exactly as you imagine the idealized Trekverse in your head.

-A new Trek, regardless of backstory, will have a visual upgrade. If you think a return to Prime-universe Trek means everything will look the way it did, you're wrong. You saw how the Andorians changed between TOS and ENT, how the Klingons changed between TOS/classic movies/TNG/DS9 and Into Darkness, how the Romulans, Trill and others have changed to suit different producers and improved makeup techniques. Now imagine the Cardassians, Bolians, Jem'Hadar or Ferengi being similarly altered - because if they're ever brought back, it will happen.



So, all that taken into account, do you all want the Prime universe backstory to return?

Yes. And I like your third point here. With updated film production technology came better aliens. Andorians in Enterprise were definitely better than TOS. I'd lose the Romulan brow ridge, or at least explain it away as something only some Romulans have. Orions looked greasy in the original series or spotty, whereas in Enterprise and NuTrek they looked as if they were actually green-skinned. I don't mind a visual upgrade of the aliens.

 

[BillJ]

But I want the real timeline to be continued, restored, and explored.

Then read the novels. The Prime universe is dead as far as live-action goes...

 

[bbjeg]

Then read the novels. The Prime universe is dead as far as live-action goes...

They used to say that about Kirk. Given enough time and the right people who want it, anything is possible.

 

[Greg Cox]

Then read the novels. The Prime universe is dead as far as live-action goes...

They used to say that about Kirk. Given enough time and the right people who want it, anything is possible.

Although the Prime Universe version of Kirk is still dead . . . except in Shatner's novels.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Given enough time, all the original actors will be dead.

 

[mendelin]

Voted for "I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back."

I don't think, that Kirk&Co are the best and exclusive Star Trek storytellers. They were at the beginning, and they are indeed iconic characters. But still.

As for me, Star Trek is not only a characters, it's a live and continuously developing universe. I appreciate "Berman's-era" for its contribution to ST-history. We got TNG and the Borg, DS9 and Dominion War, VOY and Delta Quadrant exploring. It was exciting and meaningful.

Most likely I'm wrong, but Kirk&Co are the past of ST-history, practically they can't contribute to the future of Star Trek Universe. The nuTrek Universe should be developed, it's silly to trust "destiny" and consider tribble cameos as an well-founded stuff.

 

[anh165]

We got TNG and the Borg, DS9 and Dominion War, VOY and Delta Quadrant exploring. It was exciting and meaningful.

And that's the garbage that got Star Trek cancelled.

Pass.

 

[JarodRussell]

We got TNG and the Borg, DS9 and Dominion War, VOY and Delta Quadrant exploring. It was exciting and meaningful.

And that's the garbage that got Star Trek cancelled.

Pass.

None of that got Trek cancelled. Enterprise was the show that got cancelled.

 

[The Doctor]

Then read the novels. The Prime universe is dead as far as live-action goes...

They used to say that about Kirk. Given enough time and the right people who want it, anything is possible.

Sure. But there aren't nearly enough fans of TNG-era Trek to make the 'Prime' timeline the basis for any major new Trek production. It's over, and that's ok. There's 400+ episodes of TNG-era Trek to enjoy, if that's your thing.

Voted for "I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back."

I don't think, that Kirk&Co are the best and exclusive Star Trek storytellers. They were at the beginning, and they are indeed iconic characters. But still.

As for me, Star Trek is not only a characters, it's a live and continuously developing universe. I appreciate "Berman's-era" for its contribution to ST-history. We got TNG and the Borg, DS9 and Dominion War, VOY and Delta Quadrant exploring. It was exciting and meaningful.

Not so much, no. It was a nonsensical mish-mash of conflicting ideas, timelines and situations that never really hung together. The characters took a steady march into mediocrity with each passing photocopy of TNG and the interpersonal drama that made TOS so electric was entirely excised by the time VOY rolled around, leaving us with a tepid and entirely forgettable seven seasons of drek. Even DS9 was saddled the Roddenberry dictum of 'evolved humanity,' so that the most interesting character was the Ferengi.

Most likely I'm wrong, but Kirk&Co are the past of ST-history, practically they can't contribute to the future of Star Trek Universe. The nuTrek Universe should be developed, it's silly to trust "destiny" and consider tribble cameos as an well-founded stuff.

Star Trek isn't The Lord of the Rings. No care or attention was given to the foundations of the universe or the continuity of the setting. It was conceived as a S/F action-adventure series and worked best in that format.

 

[anh165]

We got TNG and the Borg, DS9 and Dominion War, VOY and Delta Quadrant exploring. It was exciting and meaningful.

And that's the garbage that got Star Trek cancelled.

Pass.

None of that got Trek cancelled. Enterprise was the show that got cancelled.

Enterprise was merely the final nail in the coffin.

All the spin-offs (except TNG) are guilty as each other for pushing Trek down the abyss of appealing only to the 14 year old white middle-class American mindset.

 

[bbjeg]

All the spin-offs (except TNG) are guilty as each other for pushing Trek down the abyss of appealing only to the 14 year old white middle-class American mindset.

Disagree.

<- Watch Voyager as an 11 year old lower-class black kid.

 

[Cyke101]

I'd love a live-action return to the prime timeline, and I'd be happily pleased if that happens. But it would most likely have to be some sort of variation on the original concept. Even Enterprise, which tried going back to the basics, tried to substitute the Big Three character dynamic.

But even then, I'd argue that the spin-offs tended to be their strongest when they veered away and made their own course. TNG had the Borg and Q and a different storytelling style than TOS. DS9 had the Dominion, serialized storytelling, and their immense secondary cast. I thought Voyager was great with the Hirogen and 8472 (at least initially), but then they chickened out by relying too heavily on the Borg, a TNG product. And then Enterprise, as mentioned above, retreated back to familiar territory in some form, before and after their risky gambit of the 3rd season.

With that said, a return to the prime timeline would mean a variation of TOS, and it would have to create its own identity to succeed. In essence, to be in the prime timeline, a show would have to both adhere AND differentiate itself from the source material, which is no easy thing to pull off. The thing to remember about the spinoffs is that they weren't just continuations, but they also had to be like and not-like TOS/TNG.

I liked STXI and was mildly disappointed by XII, the latter primarily because we weren't exploring anything new.

 

[Levi]

I've been a huge fan since I was able to understand I was watching Star Trek on T.V. Grew up with TNG but TOS still had a few reruns here and there.
I am a fan of the Prime Timeline, but I do like (so far) how they've done the alternate. Honestly, I do not care which way they go, as long as it's got quality to it and it all stays true to Star Trek.
Personaly, I think the new timeline allows them more breathing space and allows them to really modernize TOS for upcoming projects. Although, I do hope they do not get too far away from the Prime timeline. I understand things will change but I do hope they don't start removing original characters.
I would like to see, eventually, the return of TNG to the timeline as well. I would love to see a retake on that cast!
I am hoping that we may see a new TOS series on TV?

 

[Ryan8bit]

We got TNG and the Borg, DS9 and Dominion War, VOY and Delta Quadrant exploring. It was exciting and meaningful.

And that's the garbage that got Star Trek cancelled.

Pass.

None of that got Trek cancelled. Enterprise was the show that got cancelled.

I thought what got Star Trek cancelled was the move to Friday night death slot after years of low ratings. Oh, we're talking about Enterprise and not the original?

Cancellation isn't everything, otherwise the movies and TNG wouldn't have come about.

 

[Tracer Bullet]

With that said, a return to the prime timeline would mean a variation of TOS, and it would have to create its own identity to succeed. In essence, to be in the prime timeline, a show would have to both adhere AND differentiate itself from the source material, which is no easy thing to pull off. The thing to remember about the spinoffs is that they weren't just continuations, but they also had to be like and not-like TOS/TNG.

I've come around to the idea that TNG was more revolutionary than it's given credit for. They were able to set up a world in which to set stories based on some rules, which were basically "things are different, but the same."

So, I don't think it would be that hard to come up with the structure of a new Trek show set in the Prime universe: set it 100 or 200 years down the line, come up with some new technologies, and make the status of all or most of the alien races from previous Trek different. Romulans are a non-factor, Klingons have joined the Federation, Cardassians too, after the Federation helped rebuild Cardassia Prime after the Dominion War, etc. Then have the series' ship be exploring a new area of space, be it the Delta Quadrant (still a lot to explore there) or a different galaxy.

I also don't think such a series should be serialized, but instead it should be more of an anthology/short story series, albeit one with long term character growth and a progression of events, a la Mad Man. Episodes could pick up a week, a month, two months after the last one, allowing for stand-alone adventures while at the same time allowing for a progression in interpersonal relationships and any long-term plots.

Keep it simple, keep it basic.

 

[Cyke101]

With that said, a return to the prime timeline would mean a variation of TOS, and it would have to create its own identity to succeed. In essence, to be in the prime timeline, a show would have to both adhere AND differentiate itself from the source material, which is no easy thing to pull off. The thing to remember about the spinoffs is that they weren't just continuations, but they also had to be like and not-like TOS/TNG.

I've come around to the idea that TNG was more revolutionary than it's given credit for. They were able to set up a world in which to set stories based on some rules, which were basically "things are different, but the same."

So, I don't think it would be that hard to come up with the structure of a new Trek show set in the Prime universe: set it 100 or 200 years down the line, come up with some new technologies, and make the status of all or most of the alien races from previous Trek different. Romulans are a non-factor, Klingons have joined the Federation, Cardassians too, after the Federation helped rebuild Cardassia Prime after the Dominion War, etc. Then have the series' ship be exploring a new area of space, be it the Delta Quadrant (still a lot to explore there) or a different galaxy.

I also don't think such a series should be serialized, but instead it should be more of an anthology/short story series, albeit one with long term character growth and a progression of events, a la Mad Man. Episodes could pick up a week, a month, two months after the last one, allowing for stand-alone adventures while at the same time allowing for a progression in interpersonal relationships and any long-term plots.

Keep it simple, keep it basic.

Sure, but I suppose (now that I think back at it) my overall point would be, "If you want the Prime universe back and it does come back, don't expect it to be quite like what you remember it."

You're right, it worked for TNG, but TNG had to get over a couple seasons of invoking TOS (writer's strike and viewer expectation) to find its own legs and succeed on their own terms.