Working on STTNG

[Tosk]

When I was ordered to destroy something, I signed the note for Dan Curry and threw the stuff in storage! Hehehehehehe!

How is that not stealing?

[...]woman looking over some of the furniture, and placing tags on them, reserving them for some future production [...]Needless to say, the chairs were safe and sound, for the time being.

I wonder where the chairs ended up after that...

http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2008/07/20/star-wares-star-trek-props-and-captain-stone-provenance/

For someone who claims to be a wronged innocent so often, a lot of your stories are about stealing props.

 

[JamesRye]

Mr Stone, firstly thanks for posting the pictures - they are interesting and it's rare to see new images after all these years.

That video's going to haunt you though, people including myself hear the comments about pinching stuff and that is going to rankle people. As for the 'nicking out of bins' - I'd probably have done the same, or asked someone at the prop dept if it was OK to have the unwanted stuff.

Still, you seem to be contrite - and it was many years ago.

I am curious if you got to meet any of the cast and to know what they were like. Was the atmosphere on set really as fun the cast make out?

 

[Amaris]

These stories are awesome. Also, thank you, treknician1701, for saving show items that would have been needlessly destroyed. Ye gods, so much waste!

 

[treknician1701]

Tosk: Did you read my previous post over on the other thread about THAT site? She knew that I had "A" original TOS chair, and tried to use my name in connection with her sales. Who do you think that had her Ebay auction yanked? She had many items that were questionable that was sold at auction by "Profiles in History". They no longer deal with her, as far as I know.

James: Contrite? No, I'm angry!

Thanks, J. Allen, that is one thing that I wanted to hear! Tosk would have had all that stuff to be destroyed, including all the TOS chairs!

Indiana: Those belong in a MUSEUM!!

Greg Stone

 

[Michael]

Sorry, but I gotta ask: treknician1701, if you don't look at what you (or your friends/colleagues) did as stealing, if you simply appropriated garbage that would have been destroyed anyway, why then didn't you just ask your superiors (i.e. Dan Curry)? Why did you lie to them, as you freely admitted? Looks like you think of it as stealing yourself.

Honestly, it seems like the most natural way to just ask if you wanted to take something that went to the trash. Why did you go about it in this way?

 

[trekker670]

Honestly, it seems like the most natural way to just ask if you wanted to take something that went to the trash. Why did you go about it in this way?

I don't want to speak for Mr. Stone, but my guess is the reason is along the lines of "it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission." In movies and television (and many other, unrelated industries) they do not want their products circulating.

His anecdote about shredding and staining the old costumes is an example of this, as is the anecdote about the visit to Greg Jein's shop. TNG was a in production at the time, so anything that's from the production either belongs to the production or they have it destroyed.

I'm sure there are many reasons behind this. One being that this would encourage theft from the set: a member of the production sees a commbadge selling for $500 at a convention, so they lift some from the set and do the same (this happened to an extent anyhow through people taking things and selling them, but it would have been worse if Paramount was authorizing it). The production pieces could also contain "spoilers" for upcoming episodes as well: imagine if an LCARS panel describing a key plot point were released.

This is one of the reasons it took so long for them to sell off the Star Trek archives at auctions during the mid-2000's. Trek was no longer on TV and no movies were being produced, and it was expected to stay that way, so TPTB felt comfortable selling off the archive to the fans.

 

[Tom]

It is stealing, simply because the dumpsters were located on the lot and therefor the property (and all contents therein) of Paramount Studios. If you were to follow the dump truck to the dump then remove the items that would be OK (assuming the garbage company had no issue with it). Just like police can take items from a person's outgoing trash on the street curb without a warrant, its public domain at that point. Anything that leaves Paramount's gates that you did not come in with (even trash) is the property of Paramount unless its removal from premises is approved by a supervising authority. Of course, like many companies many of these rules are loosely (if at all) enforced the further back in time you go. In court, this would be an open and shut case merely for the fact the dumpsters were located on private property.

 

[treknician1701]

M: Seems you have a real problem with "Stealing"! But would you rather that I just "followed the rules" and let all my hard work on props and model get destroyed? As it was, a beautifully detailed closeup section of the Borg ship that I made myself (Pics to follow) was rejected by Dan Curry and thrown in the dumpster, late one night! By the time I got in, the next morning, the dumpster had already been emptied! I was SOOOO mad, I could just spit!

This type of stuff goes on all the time. When Disney was done with "The Black Hole", they ordered EVERYTHING to be destroyed under very tight security, which was emplaced all thru the filming. there are NO copies of the robots, the costumes, or any props from that movie. Only reproductions. That stupid looking blaster that they used in the film was the "Holy Grail" of props for any collectors, for the longest time, until they finally realized that they were all destroyed, then some fan created a copy of one, and that was mass produced and sold all over the place! I even had one!

Bottom line, EVERYONE steals, to some extent. If you take a small little paper clip from work, to bind your check stubs together, that is STEALING! Some people consider it stealing if you grab one of those pennies that they have sitting in the liquor stores, by the cash register. That's NOT stealing, that's what they are there for!

Also, EVERYBODY LIES! Everything from a "small white lie" to a giant whopper, it's all lying. If you tell a little lie to spare someone's feelings, that is still a lie! It's best to not say anything. I've been accused of lying by omission! My ex girlfriend had called me at work and told me that she was PG! I asked her who she's been sleeping with, and she said "Nobody, just YOU". I told her that I was not able to have children, due to a childhood illness, and then she got really mad at me, yelling "Well, why didn't you ever tell me that?" We had not been dating that long, and since she had told me that she never wanted children, it really never came up. Sort of personal, that one.

But that's what I saying, there are all forms of LIES! And anyone who says that they have NEVER lied, is in fact a LIAR!

Greg Stone

 

[Tom]

I was just relaying a matter of legal fact. I know and have seen this happen at many places over the years, once it goes in a dumpster people usually don't care, but if someone in management was gunning for you that is a reason thy could terminate your employment. Just saying...

 

[doubleohfive]

This type of stuff goes on all the time. When Disney was done with "The Black Hole", they ordered EVERYTHING to be destroyed under very tight security, which was emplaced all thru the filming. there are NO copies of the robots, the costumes, or any props from that movie. Only reproductions. That stupid looking blaster that they used in the film was the "Holy Grail" of props for any collectors, for the longest time, until they finally realized that they were all destroyed, then some fan created a copy of one, and that was mass produced and sold all over the place! I even had one!

Bullshit. One of the "Vincent" models and one of the "Palomino" models from that film have been on display at ABC Studios for years in the Frank G. Wells Building. I used to walk by that display case every day and see it, along with the study model of the Black Pearl, the Rocketeer's helmet and Mary Poppins' hat, among other miscellaneous props from classic Disney films.

These photos were taken on March 27, 2012, the last time I stopped through there to look at the display case and snap some pictures. I haven't back to Frank G Wells since before this past Christmas, so I can't say if they're still there or not but both were definitely there in 2012 and they most certainly weren't destroyed after the film was completed.

Bottom line, EVERYONE steals, to some extent.

Also, EVERYBODY LIES! Everything from a "small white lie" to a giant whopper, it's all lying.

Neither of these makes it right to do so yourself.

 

[treknician1701]

I was just relaying a matter of legal fact. I know and have seen this happen at many places over the years, once it goes in a dumpster people usually don't care, but if someone in management was gunning for you that is a reason thy could terminate your employment. Just saying...

First off, nobody was "Gunning" for me, I had left the show before anyone even KNEW about the video, or the fact that I took those LCAR Photostats out of the trash! And I had left the shop of David Stipes to go and work at "Special Effects, Unlimited" for the James Bond Film "License to Kill" and worked with a GREAT guy, Gabe Vadilla! I was LONG gone from the studio by the time that anyone had seen the video.

Double-OH: My supervisor at Stipes, "Kim Bailey" had actually worked at Disney, and told me about that. I knew that a TON of prop collectors were looking for, and never found the Black Hole blaster, so I surmised that the rest of what he told me was also true.

And I can tell you this: Just about every prop, model and costume that was given to "Planet Hollywood" was a reproduction! And those photos of the models, really look like repros to me, they look TOO good, plus both look a little too small! But I can imagine that perhaps some of what they had on that production wasn't destroyed, it is possible, however unlikely

And I'm just curious, are you going to dispute everything I say?

Greg Stone

 

[doubleohfive]

Double-OH: My supervisor at Stipes, "Kim Bailey" had actually worked at Disney, and told me about that. I knew that a TON of prop collectors were looking for, and never found the Black Hole blaster, so I surmised that the rest of what he told me was also true.

You assumed, without doing any further research to confirm your assumptions.

And I can tell you this: Just about every prop, model and costume that was given to "Planet Hollywood" was a reproduction!

What's your source for this "fact" ?

And those photos of the models, really look like repros to me, they look TOO good, plus both look a little too small! But I can imagine that perhaps some of what they had on that production wasn't destroyed, it is possible, however unlikely

Oh sure. Because Disney would spend the time and energy to recreate models from a forgotten, flop of a film they did in the '70s and showcase them for free at one of the main buildings on the lot. Brilliant deduction, Holmes!

And I'm just curious, are you going to dispute everything I say?

No. Just the things you say that are flat out falshoods or blatant assumptions which I know and can prove to be precisely that. I've provided ample evidence to disprove you yet you continue to perpetuate this flimsy excuse of a line of reasoning to justify your outrageous claims. I'm just curious, are going to keep exaggerating about everything you say?

 

[Search4]

So not to complain, but a core sample was sold at Christie's Trek auciton in 2006 and it came from the studio. This could be the one that is said to be "Dan Curry's" but its clearly a studio piece given the history and provenance of the auction.

 

[Robert Comsol]

This could be the one that is said to be "Dan Curry's" but its clearly a studio piece given the history and provenance of the auction.

Wow, that's a closeup of the real thing!
Bob

 

[Search4]

Glad you enjoyed the pic - i do have some nice toys.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Glad you enjoyed the pic - i do have some nice toys.

Naughty Borg boy!

Bob

 

[Search4]

The Borg fix-up piece (the Q Who shot where the ship "fixes itself") sold at the most recent Profiles in History auction. Dan consigned this.

 

[Amaris]

Tosk: Did you read my previous post over on the other thread about THAT site? She knew that I had "A" original TOS chair, and tried to use my name in connection with her sales. Who do you think that had her Ebay auction yanked? She had many items that were questionable that was sold at auction by "Profiles in History". They no longer deal with her, as far as I know.

James: Contrite? No, I'm angry!

Thanks, J. Allen, that is one thing that I wanted to hear! Tosk would have had all that stuff to be destroyed, including all the TOS chairs!

Indiana: Those belong in a MUSEUM!!

Greg Stone

To me, just outright destroying things for the sole purpose of keeping people from owning a piece of a beloved show is just vindictive. I love props and set pieces, especially from highly regarded works of fiction. I have had a soft spot for such things ever since I read the story of how the original device from George Pal's The Time Machine was found, and restored to its former glory.

Things like that do belong in a museum or, at the very least, in the home of a fan who will truly appreciate them.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Just about every prop, model and costume that was given to "Planet Hollywood" was a reproduction!

I wouldn't know, but I can testify that the Star Wars and Star Trek models in the few Planet Hollywoods I had been to were reproductions.

The worst offender, IMHO, was the Death Star under construction - from "Return of the Jedi" - for the grand opening of the Planet Hollywood in Paris. This was a really poor reproduction.

Bob

 

[doubleohfive]

Tosk: Did you read my previous post over on the other thread about THAT site? She knew that I had "A" original TOS chair, and tried to use my name in connection with her sales. Who do you think that had her Ebay auction yanked? She had many items that were questionable that was sold at auction by "Profiles in History". They no longer deal with her, as far as I know.

James: Contrite? No, I'm angry!

Thanks, J. Allen, that is one thing that I wanted to hear! Tosk would have had all that stuff to be destroyed, including all the TOS chairs!

Indiana: Those belong in a MUSEUM!!

Greg Stone

To me, just outright destroying things for the sole purpose of keeping people from owning a piece of a beloved show is just vindictive. I love props and set pieces, especially from highly regarded works of fiction. I have had a soft spot for such things ever since I read the story of how the original device from George Pal's The Time Machine was found, and restored to its former glory.

Things like that do belong in a museum or, at the very least, in the home of a fan who will truly appreciate them.

You're adding emotion to the equation, J. Hollywood is a business. When Kubrick finished 2001, he had everything destroyed. Including blueprints for all the models. Why? Because he didn't want to see the models of the Discovery or the PanAm SpaceJet showing up in shitty sci-fi movies years later simply because the studio still had them. When 2010 was being made, the visual effects department had to study 2001 to recreate those models for it. (Well, for the Discovery, anyway.)

From an artistic standpoint, it's hard to argue with Kubrick's reasoning. It's not vindictive. It's practical. Whether these items belong in a museum is debateable. Whether it belongs in the home of some "loving fan" is nonsense. These weren't made to be sold later. The studios and prouction companies own them; they get to decide what gets done with them.