Homemade documentary on TNG sets in 1988
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That would be a chance to get it in the right shade without those questionable circumstances. Especially when accompanied with a new interview of him.
I got the impression that he just didn't like the way it circulates, ie. unauthorized editing, duplicating and bashing. Having this video in his prefered cut and in a good quality on an official media, and even proves that there are no props and costumes and no damage done, would be a completely different case, I think.
I would highly appreciate, if he would try to get this, now ancient history, released his way.
I for one had never heard of this video or Greg Stone before reading these threads. Just shows that the Streisand effect really works.
I seem to recall hearing of some sort of video, years and years, ago--but then again there's always stories passed around about this or that video that's supposed to exist. Think I'd seen very short clips (the transporter room and/or the engine room, I think) once or twice. But never gave enough of a damn to follow up or care. Wrote it off as fandom's urban legend.
Mr Stone,
Some questions, that you may or may not answer at your discretion:
-What was your exact position at Paramount studios during the time you were working for TNG? Who was your supervisor/manager?
-The night of the incident were both you and Ralph actually 'caught' and reported to Paramount officials the next day?
-When did Paramount learn there was a video tape of incident, and what did they do (if anything) upon learning (did they actually view the tape?) there was such a tape?
-Did Ralph actually not know who Rick Sternbach was at the time? ( I know Ralph, and I will smack him silly if that was true LOL).
- Why was there talk on that tape of taking a panel home, can you elaborate?
- Have your worked on Trek related projects (fan or official) since you days with TNG.
Thanks.
Some questions, that you may or may not answer at your discretion:
-What was your exact position at Paramount studios during the time you were working for TNG? Who was your supervisor/manager?
-The night of the incident were both you and Ralph actually 'caught' and reported to Paramount officials the next day?
-When did Paramount learn there was a video tape of incident, and what did they do (if anything) upon learning (did they actually view the tape?) there was such a tape?
-Did Ralph actually not know who Rick Sternbach was at the time? ( I know Ralph, and I will smack him silly if that was true LOL).
- Why was there talk on that tape of taking a panel home, can you elaborate?
- Have your worked on Trek related projects (fan or official) since you days with TNG.
Thanks.
treknician1701
Lieutenant Commander
If you read my other topic "Working on Star Trek", many of these are answered over there. No, we were not caught, Paramount didn't learn about the video until late 1990, Ralph knew nobody on the crew, Sternbach, Stipes, Curry, Okuda, only Roddenberry, and only knew OF him!
It was very strange that Ralph had spoken about stealing panels on the tape, since this was NEVER discussed on many, MANY previous visits. WHY discuss it at that time. Ralph didn't like the STTNG series, only TOS, why would he want any engineering panel? Most strange. Unless he spoke of it because he knew that the video would be seen by others. His actions in recent years dictate that he did! We had agreed to never do anything to upset the production, and stealing was never thought of or discussed. Never ANY report of stolen panels, props, or costumes, I had checked daily on that. The day AFTER the video recording, there was no report of a "break in" to security, no report of broken sets or medical beds, NOTHING!!
I have had nothing to do with TREK since. I have since sold all of my collection, and currently have nothing at all. All of my props, molds, etc. Nothing at all. This whole situation has totally ruined my love for Trek, and left a real sour taste in my mouth.
Getting stabbed in the back by several people that I thought were friends, I'm just done with it all.
nuff said.
Greg Stone
It was very strange that Ralph had spoken about stealing panels on the tape, since this was NEVER discussed on many, MANY previous visits. WHY discuss it at that time. Ralph didn't like the STTNG series, only TOS, why would he want any engineering panel? Most strange. Unless he spoke of it because he knew that the video would be seen by others. His actions in recent years dictate that he did! We had agreed to never do anything to upset the production, and stealing was never thought of or discussed. Never ANY report of stolen panels, props, or costumes, I had checked daily on that. The day AFTER the video recording, there was no report of a "break in" to security, no report of broken sets or medical beds, NOTHING!!
I have had nothing to do with TREK since. I have since sold all of my collection, and currently have nothing at all. All of my props, molds, etc. Nothing at all. This whole situation has totally ruined my love for Trek, and left a real sour taste in my mouth.
Getting stabbed in the back by several people that I thought were friends, I'm just done with it all.
nuff said.
Greg Stone
this is fascinating stuff!
greg: i think you’re looking at this in completely the wrong way, people aren’t interested in this video to “harass” you personally, they are because its a really fascinating thing, a completely unorthodox “behind the scenes” look into a famous tv show! who wouldn’t have wanted to be in your shoes! in my opinion the anger and backlash sets in when you can be clearly heard wanting to steal the set pieces, which changes everything. but you admit that it was a stupid mistake, thats cool, but this is prob.gonna follow you for life, sucks huh.. you really should just laugh it off at this point and not care so much about what random people on the internet say! the streisand effect, all that stuff is spot-on.
the video is all over the youtubes, all you gotta do is search. so much for tagging i guess?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TezZnH04vz8
greg: i think you’re looking at this in completely the wrong way, people aren’t interested in this video to “harass” you personally, they are because its a really fascinating thing, a completely unorthodox “behind the scenes” look into a famous tv show! who wouldn’t have wanted to be in your shoes! in my opinion the anger and backlash sets in when you can be clearly heard wanting to steal the set pieces, which changes everything. but you admit that it was a stupid mistake, thats cool, but this is prob.gonna follow you for life, sucks huh.. you really should just laugh it off at this point and not care so much about what random people on the internet say! the streisand effect, all that stuff is spot-on.
the video is all over the youtubes, all you gotta do is search. so much for tagging i guess?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TezZnH04vz8
Thank you Mr Stone for your answers. I apologize for not doing enough due diligence with the other thread. I am sorry to hear that this quarter century's old incident has ruined you love for Star Trek. I would hope that you can separate Star Trek as a fictional entertainment franchise from the fans and other real life issues regarding Star Trek production. Even so, you have joined this Star Trek themed BBS, because you do want to share in the time you had working with the series, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many of us here have been part of this board for a long time (Dam, I feel old!) and while we occasionally argue about view points, our passion for Star Trek remains a commonality we all share. With that, I would recommend letting go of questionable things that may have happened in the past, and join some of our conversations and rediscover what you love about Star Trek.
The future is always ahead of us, not behind.
The future is always ahead of us, not behind.
treknician1701
Lieutenant Commander
No worries, people. I just wanted to give you a brief background on this video, from a different perspective. I had a friend "Roger" who was a really horrible model builder, even with kit bashing, but I befriended him, and helped with some of his projects. When I first met Greg Jein, who I had always held to be the greatest model maker in Hollywood history, EVER.
I had an appointment to go and see Greg at his shop out in the West LA, Santa Monica area, and Roger begged me to go along, so how could I refuse. Greg was busy working on the TV show "V", which David Stipes was also working on, but he had a small amount of time after lunch for me. I could tell that he was not happy with me bringing a second person, but I was young and stupid! In Greg's shop were tiny little "V" fightercraft, about 4 or 5 inches long, and I had asked Greg if he had a miscast or a raw casting that I could have, since I loved the show, and he told me that it was an ongoing production, and if it wasn't then he wouldn't have a problem with that.
I totally agreed, and told him that I understand. After the visit, I started heading down the freeway to take Roger home, and he pulled one of the little fightercraft out of his pocket and handed it to me! I couldn't believe that he had stolen this from Greg. It was all gray, but not painted, and then I realized that this was the PROTOTYPE!! This was what he made the mold for all the others! Roger said that he saw this sitting in Greg's office as we were walking out the shop! I told him that I didn't want to know anything about that, and I never took him to another place ever! I found out later that Greg told several people that I was the one that grabbed the prototype, and my name was crap before I ever really got started in the business!
Now, the connection to this video. When we got back from the studio, that night, Ralph was chomping at the bit to get a copy of this VHS tape. The camcorder was a full sized, CCG VHS machine, and both the tape and the battery ran for 2 hours. I didn't have a second VHS machine, and he wanted to "Borrow" the master, but I refused, in case anything happened (and with Ralph, it always seemed to) so he had to wait. I got the tape dubbed within the week, and labeled it "Ralph and I at Paramount" and had it sitting on my bookcase.
Roger came over the next day and visited with me, and talked about nothing, and the next day when Ralph stopped by, the tape was GONE!!! Then, my old boss from David Stipes shop suddenly had a copy of the tape, telling everyone that I gave him the copy, which was total BUNK!
My relationship with him got more and more strained, working on STTNG, and I finally got an offer to work on the James Bond film "License to Kill", so I left in the third season of STTNG. Kim mass produced the video and gave it out to everyone, so perhaps it's actually HIM you should be thanking, as well as Roger for stealing it in the first place!
Roger had a copy of the Darth Vader helmet that I was producing, a copy of the episode 4 helmet, I was the FIRST one to sell this at the conventions, since I never planned to work on any of those films, since I surmised that the last of them "JEDI" was back in 1981, and there would be no more. I met the actor who actually wore the Vader outfit "David Prouse" at a convention, and he looked at my helmets, just as the last one was sold, and told me that he NEVER got one of his own. I told him that I would be happy to get him one, and when would he be back in LA? Instead, he gave me his home address, and I promised to mail him one, no worries.
Since Roger had one of mine, and he never paid me for it, I went over to "Repossess" it, but Roger said that he didn't know where it was, and he would get it back to me. I told him the story, hoping that would motivate him to get me the mask, but it didn't. I found out about a week later, that Roger had indeed finished the helmet, and HE sent it to David, claiming that he had built it, and he did all the helmets for ME. He didn't have David's home address, so he sent to David's London based agent!
So you see, it's not only Ralph that has stabbed me in the back! All these TREK friends and co-workers, just burned the trek right out of me!
Greg Stone
I had an appointment to go and see Greg at his shop out in the West LA, Santa Monica area, and Roger begged me to go along, so how could I refuse. Greg was busy working on the TV show "V", which David Stipes was also working on, but he had a small amount of time after lunch for me. I could tell that he was not happy with me bringing a second person, but I was young and stupid! In Greg's shop were tiny little "V" fightercraft, about 4 or 5 inches long, and I had asked Greg if he had a miscast or a raw casting that I could have, since I loved the show, and he told me that it was an ongoing production, and if it wasn't then he wouldn't have a problem with that.
I totally agreed, and told him that I understand. After the visit, I started heading down the freeway to take Roger home, and he pulled one of the little fightercraft out of his pocket and handed it to me! I couldn't believe that he had stolen this from Greg. It was all gray, but not painted, and then I realized that this was the PROTOTYPE!! This was what he made the mold for all the others! Roger said that he saw this sitting in Greg's office as we were walking out the shop! I told him that I didn't want to know anything about that, and I never took him to another place ever! I found out later that Greg told several people that I was the one that grabbed the prototype, and my name was crap before I ever really got started in the business!
Now, the connection to this video. When we got back from the studio, that night, Ralph was chomping at the bit to get a copy of this VHS tape. The camcorder was a full sized, CCG VHS machine, and both the tape and the battery ran for 2 hours. I didn't have a second VHS machine, and he wanted to "Borrow" the master, but I refused, in case anything happened (and with Ralph, it always seemed to) so he had to wait. I got the tape dubbed within the week, and labeled it "Ralph and I at Paramount" and had it sitting on my bookcase.
Roger came over the next day and visited with me, and talked about nothing, and the next day when Ralph stopped by, the tape was GONE!!! Then, my old boss from David Stipes shop suddenly had a copy of the tape, telling everyone that I gave him the copy, which was total BUNK!
My relationship with him got more and more strained, working on STTNG, and I finally got an offer to work on the James Bond film "License to Kill", so I left in the third season of STTNG. Kim mass produced the video and gave it out to everyone, so perhaps it's actually HIM you should be thanking, as well as Roger for stealing it in the first place!
Roger had a copy of the Darth Vader helmet that I was producing, a copy of the episode 4 helmet, I was the FIRST one to sell this at the conventions, since I never planned to work on any of those films, since I surmised that the last of them "JEDI" was back in 1981, and there would be no more. I met the actor who actually wore the Vader outfit "David Prouse" at a convention, and he looked at my helmets, just as the last one was sold, and told me that he NEVER got one of his own. I told him that I would be happy to get him one, and when would he be back in LA? Instead, he gave me his home address, and I promised to mail him one, no worries.
Since Roger had one of mine, and he never paid me for it, I went over to "Repossess" it, but Roger said that he didn't know where it was, and he would get it back to me. I told him the story, hoping that would motivate him to get me the mask, but it didn't. I found out about a week later, that Roger had indeed finished the helmet, and HE sent it to David, claiming that he had built it, and he did all the helmets for ME. He didn't have David's home address, so he sent to David's London based agent!
So you see, it's not only Ralph that has stabbed me in the back! All these TREK friends and co-workers, just burned the trek right out of me!
Greg Stone
Guilt by association. You were the one with the appointment to meet with Greg, there for you vouched for Roger and you were responsible for his actions.
I'm not saying that this isn't a terrible story, you were indeed put in a difficult position and you weren't the one who actually lifted the prototype from the office, but you weren't a victim either. You were responsible and could have very easily returned the model to Greg and explained the story and potentially cleared your name, before it was ever dirtied.
I don't think you're a bad person at all or meant to do anything that would harm production. You're a fan, and as such, made a few decisions that in hind-sight weren't the greatest.
I fully believe that most any fan of the show would have behaved similarly (who wouldn't want to visit the sets, or get props?! There's a reason STTE was so popular for 10 years, and the touring prop and set exhibits still continue after 25 years). I believe that Paramount realized that no harm was meant, but it would be a continuing issue if they continued to hire fans and that was the reason behind their decision to not hire fans any longer.
I hope that doesn't come off too harshly. I am envious of your experiences and thoroughly enjoy hearing your stories and viewing the images you're posting, and I hope you continue to do so.
You could have very easily turned the car around and took the prototype back. Maybe you should skip parts of the story where you or your friends are lifting things from studio productions.
I don't know about anyone else, but it really ruins looking at anything you're presenting in way of photos.
treknician1701
Lieutenant Commander
Trekker, You are most certainly correct, I could have returned the prototype and explained the situation to Greg, since he was a most pleasant person to deal with, I should have turned the car around directly and let Roger deal directly with Greg and tell him that he was sorry for stealing the fightercraft. As you say I was the one responsible for him being there. Our hindsight is always 20/20.
I agree with you 1000%.
CoveTom: that is correct, for artistic situations, I was quoting the INDUSTRIAL copyright that Paramount would have to file.
But you brought up an interesting point. Since I am, technically the AUTHOR of this video, since I am clearly seen all thru it, does that mean that I have copyright RIGHTS? If someone films something extraordinary happening at Disneyland, and it makes the news, and that person gets a ton of money for the video, does that mean that Disney would want to grab the video on grounds of copyright?
See, from a legal standpoint, a lot of the copyright law is a HUGE gray area, and each case is decided on the basis of what has transpired. This was why Gene's first wife was able to sue Paramount after his death, and get a 40 million dollar settlement! It was a truly amazing case, the attorney for her was brilliant!
The fact that the studio had the video in their possession and returned it, could be used to claim that they had no interest in maintaining any hold onto or over that video. I could very easily market that video, once it was cleaned up more and edited.
Add to that, that I have another behind the scenes working for David Stipes that runs for another 58 minutes, and a THIRD video of some fans who broke into the DS9 sets, which did have props, and other items that they were playing with!
It's amazing...
Bill: then maybe you shouldn't read the "Working on Star Trek" thread, hehehehe
Oh, by the way, Edward told me that when Gene Roddenberry saw a copy of my video, he had commented "That's the gutiest thing I have ever seen"! I don't know if that is actually true, but I don't know that it's not! Just a FYI for you all.
Greg Stone
I agree with you 1000%.
CoveTom: that is correct, for artistic situations, I was quoting the INDUSTRIAL copyright that Paramount would have to file.
But you brought up an interesting point. Since I am, technically the AUTHOR of this video, since I am clearly seen all thru it, does that mean that I have copyright RIGHTS? If someone films something extraordinary happening at Disneyland, and it makes the news, and that person gets a ton of money for the video, does that mean that Disney would want to grab the video on grounds of copyright?
See, from a legal standpoint, a lot of the copyright law is a HUGE gray area, and each case is decided on the basis of what has transpired. This was why Gene's first wife was able to sue Paramount after his death, and get a 40 million dollar settlement! It was a truly amazing case, the attorney for her was brilliant!
The fact that the studio had the video in their possession and returned it, could be used to claim that they had no interest in maintaining any hold onto or over that video. I could very easily market that video, once it was cleaned up more and edited.
Add to that, that I have another behind the scenes working for David Stipes that runs for another 58 minutes, and a THIRD video of some fans who broke into the DS9 sets, which did have props, and other items that they were playing with!
It's amazing...
Bill: then maybe you shouldn't read the "Working on Star Trek" thread, hehehehe
Oh, by the way, Edward told me that when Gene Roddenberry saw a copy of my video, he had commented "That's the gutiest thing I have ever seen"! I don't know if that is actually true, but I don't know that it's not! Just a FYI for you all.
Greg Stone
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treknician1701
Lieutenant Commander
Greg,
I was part amused and part appalled by the video. I applaud you for being open about it and admitting it was a stupid stunt. The clamshell incident aside, I think what's most cringeworthy about the vid is your tone with Ralph. Please tell me you're less of a jerk today!
Oh, and since nobody has yet, I just gotta ask: how's your hair these days?
I was part amused and part appalled by the video. I applaud you for being open about it and admitting it was a stupid stunt. The clamshell incident aside, I think what's most cringeworthy about the vid is your tone with Ralph. Please tell me you're less of a jerk today!
Oh, and since nobody has yet, I just gotta ask: how's your hair these days?
it very much does. i had wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but after a few quick searches on google for "greg stone star trek" there were some interesting results.... mainly these two past blogs and forums:
http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2008/07/20/star-wares-star-trek-props-and-captain-stone-provenance/
http://starfleet1701st.yuku.com/reply/17810/Re-TNG-Theft-Video#.UubPlXl6iQU
everyone and everything from the internet should be taken with a grain of salt of course, but this is starting to paint a picture in my mind about the man's character.. too many people are saying similar things...
As far as Ralph goes, he is a great guy and contributing member of many Star Trek projects and fan films. I have known him for only a few years, so I could not attest to how he was 25 years ago, but heck, that was so long ago and I was no angel myself back in the 80's 
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treknician1701
Lieutenant Commander
B Mariner. Yes, well there was NO DAMAGE to the clamshell, regardless of what anybody says, I WAS THERE! and no reports of damage to the sets or the medical bed the next day, week or month after that!
The problem with this video was that Ralph and I had a HUGE fight earlier that day, and it would have been better if we just went home and forgot about the studio visit that day. The stress of that situation only made the fight that much more difficult. The fight was totally unrelated to our studio visit, something personal.
As to my hair? The only reason I asked him that, was because, at a convention years before this day, I was standing in front of the TOS shuttlecraft, and Ralph was taking a picture. I didn't have a comb, so I asked him how was my hair, he replied "Fine" and took the shot. When I got the prints back from being developed, every shot of me in front of the shuttlecraft had a small wispy section standing STRAIGHT UP in the middle!
What you all don't realize, and looking back in retrospect, is that Ralph was not a very good friend to me over the years, and many people have said so. Some of he stunts he pulled made me wonder why I put up with him. His first wife always called him "Mister A**Hole" for many years, while they were married and after the divorce.
Let me give you a good example. We were going out to Redondo Beach to have breakfast with a friend of Ralph's named Will. Ralph hating me driving my car, so I just let him waste his gas, and got into the passenger seat. Going down Artesia Blvd, and coming to Sepulveda, which is 6 lanes, 3 north bound, 3 south bound. Ralph was always a pretty slow driver, and this day was no exception. He was going about 30 MPH, in a 40 MPH zone, when the light turned yellow. Ralph slowed down, but never STOPPED! He went thru the intersection, as the light turned red, with cars heading south right into my door! Honking horns, and slamming on brakes, Ralph paid it no mind and just continued to drive slowly, like an old man!
One day, up in Baldwin Park, where Ralph had went to school, Ralph was driving an old beat up station wagon, and we were looking for a street, going somewhere for something that I don't recall. I asked him the name of the street and he told me, and I told him that we went past it three streets back. We were on a side street, and he slammed on the brakes, and instead of turning around, he just backed up to the third street back. All of a sudden, there was a "Thump, thump" sound, and a bunch of little kids on the sidewalk started screaming, and my first thought was "Oh God, he ran over a kid"!
It was actually worse than that! He ran over the kids' CAT! Ralph always hated cats, because he was allergic to their hair, but instead of just putting the car in park, he put it in drive and drove back over the cat!!! The kid's parents came running out of the house and saw what had happened, and Ralph looked really remorseful to them. The father patted Ralph on the shoulder and told him it would be better if he just left, which we did. Later, when he recounted the story to his first wife, he was laughing about the stupid cat!
I should have known from that point what type of a person he was.
Greg Stone
The problem with this video was that Ralph and I had a HUGE fight earlier that day, and it would have been better if we just went home and forgot about the studio visit that day. The stress of that situation only made the fight that much more difficult. The fight was totally unrelated to our studio visit, something personal.
As to my hair? The only reason I asked him that, was because, at a convention years before this day, I was standing in front of the TOS shuttlecraft, and Ralph was taking a picture. I didn't have a comb, so I asked him how was my hair, he replied "Fine" and took the shot. When I got the prints back from being developed, every shot of me in front of the shuttlecraft had a small wispy section standing STRAIGHT UP in the middle!
What you all don't realize, and looking back in retrospect, is that Ralph was not a very good friend to me over the years, and many people have said so. Some of he stunts he pulled made me wonder why I put up with him. His first wife always called him "Mister A**Hole" for many years, while they were married and after the divorce.
Let me give you a good example. We were going out to Redondo Beach to have breakfast with a friend of Ralph's named Will. Ralph hating me driving my car, so I just let him waste his gas, and got into the passenger seat. Going down Artesia Blvd, and coming to Sepulveda, which is 6 lanes, 3 north bound, 3 south bound. Ralph was always a pretty slow driver, and this day was no exception. He was going about 30 MPH, in a 40 MPH zone, when the light turned yellow. Ralph slowed down, but never STOPPED! He went thru the intersection, as the light turned red, with cars heading south right into my door! Honking horns, and slamming on brakes, Ralph paid it no mind and just continued to drive slowly, like an old man!
One day, up in Baldwin Park, where Ralph had went to school, Ralph was driving an old beat up station wagon, and we were looking for a street, going somewhere for something that I don't recall. I asked him the name of the street and he told me, and I told him that we went past it three streets back. We were on a side street, and he slammed on the brakes, and instead of turning around, he just backed up to the third street back. All of a sudden, there was a "Thump, thump" sound, and a bunch of little kids on the sidewalk started screaming, and my first thought was "Oh God, he ran over a kid"!
It was actually worse than that! He ran over the kids' CAT! Ralph always hated cats, because he was allergic to their hair, but instead of just putting the car in park, he put it in drive and drove back over the cat!!! The kid's parents came running out of the house and saw what had happened, and Ralph looked really remorseful to them. The father patted Ralph on the shoulder and told him it would be better if he just left, which we did. Later, when he recounted the story to his first wife, he was laughing about the stupid cat!
I should have known from that point what type of a person he was.
Greg Stone
treknician1701
Lieutenant Commander
First of all, you should NOT be posting links of this nature on this board, secondly, the "Originalprop" site is only a SLAM site of questionable situations. Check out his other "investigations". I gave this guy the option to take down his personal attack on me, since I had NEVER dealt with the store in question, which had been closed down for selling stolen items. I had sold some Vader helmets to the owner of the store back in the early 1990's, but got ripped off on the deal, and refused to deal with her again. It's not a surprise that she continued to use MY name on all sorts of sales, which I had nothing to do with.
As for that little prop board, the 1701st, is just an offshoot of the "Prop cartel" that started on the replica prop board. You can go there and find all sorts of things about Greg Stone. Everyone there knows a friend of a friend of a friend who got ripped off by me, but it seems that nobody is THAT person! Onigiri is just about the worse one there. That's Japanese for "Rice ball"!!! Real macho username, huh?
The guy is a joke, and I have never taken him seriously, not even after he met me at a convention and threatened to stab me in the heart with his gold pen!
That's a FACT!!!
More TREK people, coming out from under their rocks.
Greg Stone
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