Damn OP, that's... wow. 
Yarp.
Well that's just obnoxious.
Yarp.
Well that's just obnoxious.
Nasty Characters Masquerading As Good - Willow Rosenberg
- Thread starter Apple Goblin
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Having only seen handfuls of seasons 2-4 and 7 (but most of the others), she indeed had flaws (her fury at Xander dating Cordelia was, at best, over-the-top) but primarily good qualities. I thought her dark side was too much, too soon in 6 and then too minimal in 7.
Admiral2 said:
On re-watching the show, especially any amount of it in a short time, a lot of things about the characters in general become clearer, few if any of them come off looking all that good now, but I used to be a pretty big Willow fan when it first aired. Not so much on repeats.
Apple Goblin said:
Yeah, the comics have shown that she has always had a much darker side and been far more aware of it than she let on, that she's been lying to them for years.
Kelthaz said:
Tweet Joss about it then. He supervised, approved or wrote the Willow arc's, and has given a whole new perspective on her powers and her past use of it. Her overall character arc is being developed to lead up to a world killing Dark Willow that she has apparently always been destined to be.
We're shown the future first in season 8 where Buffy meets Fray, taken to her time to destroy Dark Willow who is about to end the world. The arc ends with Buffy killing Willow with the Scythe and being returned to the present, telling her about it (yeah...) and promising it will never happen.
It was implied everything now changed, but with the end of magic, any friendship Willow had for Buffy ended, she resented her for making her "normal", Buffy actually starts the chain of events that pushes Willow from anything keeping her remotely human and allows her to become her 'true self', or rather the Willow free to act as she always wanted to.
She was always going to be evil, or at least inhumane, the geeky character was the mask written in until they started her darker story line.
For someone who seems to like nothing about BtVS, you seem to waste an unusual amount of time obsessing about it.
Is anyone else reminded of that guy who used to come in here with the 10,000 word rants about Spike?
Masochism can bring most ordinary people to orgasm
There are many things I like about BtVS - the opening theme, the b-movie-eque monster-of-the-day episodes, the witty dialogue, dense character development. I like basically every season (save season seven). In terms of characters I love Cordelia Chase (my favourite character in both Buffy and Angel), Anya, Faith and Giles. I even love season six where Buffy is reduced to a minimum-wage, miserable chipmunk.
Do I like Willow Rosenberg? No. Do I think she's a well-written character? Yes. And I actually think it's to the writer's credit that they kept her darker aspects fairly consistent. Without the set-up, her turn towards the dark side wouldn't have made any sense, but it did. I just find it funny that so many fans choose to ignore Willow's lack of morals.
And gay, let's not forget that. Can't have them nasty queers running around without a care in the world on television now can we!
You think I'm homophobic? I'm gay myself, and Tara is one of my favorite characters in the Buffyverse. Willow's sexuality (or lack of) doesn't really change her reprehensible behavior imo. her arc could have been done with either Oz or Tara, who are actually quite similar; kind, sensible people who are willing to put up with Willow's abuse.
Are you saying that gay people can't be homophobic?
Not that's homophobic!
Not that's homophobic!
Now I'm reminded of the guy that used to raise a fit about George Takei whenever he made a headline. He claimed to be gay as well.
I'm a huge fan of Buffy, and Willow is one of my favorite characters, so I never really saw any of that the way you did. And Season 6 is kind of an obvious target for this conversation, her whole arc for that season was her slowly going darker and darker until the big transformation to Dark Willow at the end.
For reals, though: there are interesting things to be said about Willow's character arc, her mixture of sympathetic qualities and flaws and the dark undercurrent running underneath them. It's a shame the OP buries a potentially interesting subject under a mass of wildly over-the-top ranting and misogynistic name-calling.
To be honest, I agree with several of the themes the OP has expressed with Willow's rise from the nervous geek with no self confidence, who was picked on in school to the woman she becomes in College and beyond. (However, unlike the OP, I don't dismiss others or judge Willow more harshly than them)
Having said that, I consider this a plus in the writing of her character, rather than a minus. I have no problem enjoying watching vile characters or characters doing vile things. I love Kai Winn from DS9, Ben from LOST, Regina and Mr. Gold on Once Upon A Time (especially befofre they were made more "Human" - Sure wouldn't want to know them, but, they are entertaining and enhance the show, IMHO)
Having said that, I consider this a plus in the writing of her character, rather than a minus. I have no problem enjoying watching vile characters or characters doing vile things. I love Kai Winn from DS9, Ben from LOST, Regina and Mr. Gold on Once Upon A Time (especially befofre they were made more "Human" - Sure wouldn't want to know them, but, they are entertaining and enhance the show, IMHO)
I call someone a bitch and I'm misogynistic? I think it is pretty clear I hate Willow for who she is, not because she is a woman. Maybe this is an American thing?
Willow's lack of a moral compass speaks for itself. The fact that I am disgusted by her show's that I'm a human with morals.
You know who Willow Rosenberg reminds me of? Carrie (from the Stephen King novel). Carrie's meekness and lack of backbone tricked viewers into thinking she was a helpless victim, but she really was a psychotic madwoman who would rather kill her classmates than take responsibility for her life. People like Willow and Carrie take life for granted, expect other people to solve their problems and then lash out viciously when things don't go their way. Truly frightening, these people should be avoided at all costs.
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