The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

[SeerSGB]

So Capaldi is both 13 and a a new 1.

I agree....the more I think, there was so much that was just a throaway line.

Something about The Master and The High Council. Something about The Silence. Something about The Daleks. Something about time lords. Something about the crack in time. The TARDIS being destroyed was literally a throwaway line that I can't even remember...

Even the music was largely recycled, and Capaldi only got a few seconds.......

This is the perfect ending for this period of Doctor Who, a garbled mess of a story with some really cool character moments.

Loads better than RTD with his lowest common denominator humor containing fart and fat jokes.

Yeah, he had loads of fart jokes in one episode of season 1 when the show was still trying to find its identity and balance between being for kids and adults because many believed the show wouldn't last past season 1.

Dunno what that has to do with this episode though, but at least End of Time had a story.

End Of Time had a story? I thought it was 10 just whining about regenerating.

So the the time lords were calling for the doctor through that crack and if he replied they'd show up and it would be bad. But then why did he hang around the planet? Were the daleks just going to raze the place anyway? Shoot the time lords through the crack or something?

Agreed with Phily B. This has happened before with Moffat finales, I find I need to rewatch and listen more carefully for very hasty bits of explanation to understand what was going on.

If they come through, all hell breaks loose (again) and the time war restarts. The Daleks and the rest of the galaxy wants to stop the Doctor from saying his name cause then they stop the return of Gallifrey.

 

[3chordboy]

Dunno what that has to do with this episode though, but at least End of Time had a story.

End of Time could've done with being the same length as this episode (the 2nd part anyway) rather than the bloated "I'm going to say goodbye to all my companions before i go" wankfest.

The TARDIS was destroyed by a faction of that church. it's stated quite clearly in a few lines of exposition. re-watch it soon, Phily B.

 

[Phily B]

No, it's a throwaway line to a major storyline.

"SILENCE WILL FALL"

"Oh by the way, we destroyed it."

Utter shit, no wonder I stopped watching - the 50th was a fluke, if Matt Smith regenerated in the 50th and this episode didn't exist nothing would be missed.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Well that was... a bit of a mess. There have been worse episodes, but I'd say it was probably the worst regeneration since Time And The Rani, which is shocking considering how good Day Of The Doctor was.

Basically, the real problem with it is that it was a shopping list of elements for a story arc that would have made a good arc for a season, devoting an episode to each bit or element, but which totally fucking didn't work as a single hour.

Lesley being pissed and moaning "this is awful" all fucking through it didn't help, so I may be underrating on the ground of being well sick that, but really it was a structural mess. Oh, yeah and way too much plot exposition via narration. And was the Papal mainframe meant to be someone we know - a different incarnation of River or something?

Oh, yeah, and too many retcons of even stuff from Eleven's own era - what the Silents are, for example. The "Doctor Who?" gag has been done too many times, the nature of the Silents changes again...

Still, it's Xmas, there's supposed to be a turkey...

 

[Phily B]

Hopefully Capaldi doesn't try to kill Clara and dress like a moron in the new episodes.

 

[Jax]

Utter shit, no wonder I stopped watching.

See you for all 14 episodes in 2014 and 2015 and 2016 then

 

[Bob The Skutter]

BTW why is it always boiled down to "At least it's not RTD!" when people don't like Moffat episodes? Why can't people simply dislike an episode without it becoming fanboy dick waving over RTD vs Moffat? It's obnoxious and makes it seem like you can't love Doctor Who without hating one or the other. I have and do enjoy episodes from both but Moffat's style is largely a turn off with individual episodes or moments being really good.

As for this episode, it was the perfect sum up of 11s run. Overall a simple story told in such a contrived mess of a way that it seemed like it was either too complicated to follow or a tick list of elements that had to be nodded at with a throughline written to connect them, with some nice moments.

 

[Green Lantern]

What the actual fuck was that?

Was pretty bad with only several entertaining bits. If I had to sum it up in one word, it'd probably be lacklustre. It felt rushed and didn't have much structure. Christ, this makes Asylum of the Daleks look great, and you all know my opinions on that. No villain which I what the episode could have done with, was rushed which is a problem pretty much all of series 7 has suffered with, and the story was just...dull. I was expecting something good on the same tier as the brilliant Day of the Doctor. Plus the regeneration sequence was shit. Sure, I get that he had that giant regeneration before actually changing his appearance, but the second one just didn't work. I didn't like that "flash". Too fast and if they weren't going to do that now normal stand-up regeneration, at least do a more traditional lying down regeneration. But nope, just a quick spin round and a blip to Capaldi. And then we got barley any words from him. I was at least expecting a few more words from him like we did with Smith in The End of Time. The End of Time had its faults but in comparison, it was a master piece. I've gotten The Caves of Androzani and Time & The Rani fir Christmas on DVD. I wouldn't be surprised if T&TR was better than Time of the Doctor. And from what I've heard, it's awful. I was generous and gave this 2 stars. Definitely my least favourite regeneration, probably tied with the War Games and that's low for opposite reasons - it dragged on too much. Then again I was younger when I saw that, if I watched the whole thing again now, I'd probably enjoy it more. Would probably beat Time of the Doctor.

Plus the quick clip we got of Capaldi gives me no hope that he'll be that good as the doctor. I'm beginning to hope he really is a one series wonder.

 

[Jax]

Plus the quick clip we got of Capaldi gives me no hope that he'll be that good as the doctor

Based on what? just seems to me like you decided soon as he was casted based off that comment.

 

[Green Lantern]

Hopefully Capaldi doesn't try to kill Clara and dress like a moron in the new episodes.

Twin Dilemma was far better than Time of the Doctor. I'd have rather just seen a remake of that with Capaldi instead then wade through this shit.

 

[Vyse]

Funny how Eccleston's regeneration is still the best of new who. Guess it is the simplicity of it that makes it great.

 

[Green Lantern]

Plus the quick clip we got of Capaldi gives me no hope that he'll be that good as the doctor

Based on what? just seems to me like you decided soon as he was casted based off that comment.

He just doesn't have the look for a start He doesn't have that Doctorly feel to him. Then again, I could be very wrong. After seeing the End of Time and seeing Smith's first moments, I thought "he's going to become the best ever doctor in no time". How wrong was I. So Capaldi could end up being great. I don't know, I'm just lashing out because I'm angry with the episode.

 

[trash80]

I really enjoyed it, as i got TTOI Series 4 DVD for Xmas and watched it all beforehand Capaldi's appearance did have a somewhat surreal edge to it (might have been the wine though).

 

[Vyse]

What the actual fuck was that?

Was pretty bad with only several entertaining bits. If I had to sum it up in one word, it'd probably be lacklustre. It felt rushed and didn't have much structure. Christ, this makes Asylum of the Daleks look great, and you all know my opinions on that. No villain which I what the episode could have done with, was rushed which is a problem pretty much all of series 7 has suffered with, and the story was just...dull. I was expecting something good on the same tier as the brilliant Day of the Doctor. Plus the regeneration sequence was shit. Sure, I get that he had that giant regeneration before actually changing his appearance, but the second one just didn't work. I didn't like that "flash". Too fast and if they weren't going to do that now normal stand-up regeneration, at least do a more traditional lying down regeneration. But nope, just a quick spin round and a blip to Capaldi. And then we got barley any words from him. I was at least expecting a few more words from him like we did with Smith in The End of Time. The End of Time had its faults but in comparison, it was a master piece. I've gotten The Caves of Androzani and Time & The Rani fir Christmas on DVD. I wouldn't be surprised if T&TR was better than Time of the Doctor. And from what I've heard, it's awful. I was generous and gave this 2 stars. Definitely my least favourite regeneration, probably tied with the War Games and that's low for opposite reasons - it dragged on too much. Then again I was younger when I saw that, if I watched the whole thing again now, I'd probably enjoy it more. Would probably beat Time of the Doctor.

Plus the quick clip we got of Capaldi gives me no hope that he'll be that good as the doctor. I'm beginning to hope he really is a one series wonder.

So you are going to judge Capaldi on that couple of seconds? Sheesh, give the guy a chance before going all negative. Bah humbug.

 

[Green Lantern]

Funny how Eccleston's regeneration is still the best of new who. Guess it is the simplicity of it that makes it great.

Although I think End of Time is slightly better, I agree with you when you talk about simplicity. This one was too complicated yet too short. Lets hope Capaldi's regeneration takes inspiration from the better regenerations.

BTW, do you think it's funny that in 2013, we've had two doctors die of old age (Hurt and Smith)?

 

[Stoo]

If they come through, all hell breaks loose (again) and the time war restarts. The Daleks and the rest of the galaxy wants to stop the Doctor from saying his name cause then they stop the return of Gallifrey.

But the time lords are waiting for his signal, right? For him to say his name? So why not just fly off and leave the crack behind?

 

[Jax]

If they come through, all hell breaks loose (again) and the time war restarts. The Daleks and the rest of the galaxy wants to stop the Doctor from saying his name cause then they stop the return of Gallifrey.

But the time lords are waiting for his signal, right? For him to say his name? So why not just fly off and leave the crack behind?

Didn't The Doctor said whatever was trying to come through this crack was because its the weakest point of the breaches across the Universe.

 

[Vyse]

Funny how Eccleston's regeneration is still the best of new who. Guess it is the simplicity of it that makes it great.

Although I think End of Time is slightly better, I agree with you when you talk about simplicity. This one was too complicated yet too short. Lets hope Capaldi's regeneration takes inspiration from the better regenerations.

BTW, do you think it's funny that in 2013, we've had two doctors die of old age (Hurt and Smith)?

Didn't see your earlier reply, glad you are giving Capaldi a chance. I loved all the actors who have played the Doctor, it's the writing that can be a problem.

True, didn't even think of that, funny how two Doctors died of old age this year.

 

[SeerSGB]

If they come through, all hell breaks loose (again) and the time war restarts. The Daleks and the rest of the galaxy wants to stop the Doctor from saying his name cause then they stop the return of Gallifrey.

But the time lords are waiting for his signal, right? For him to say his name? So why not just fly off and leave the crack behind?

Cause no one knew what the signal was till the Doctor showed up and decoded it. All that was known is that the signal caused fear in all the races that heard it. Once the Doctor decoded it, he was there at it, they couldn't leave in case he brought Gallifrey back.

 

[Lonemagpie]

BTW why is it always boiled down to "At least it's not RTD!" when people don't like Moffat episodes? Why can't people simply dislike an episode without it becoming fanboy dick waving over RTD vs Moffat?

I direct you to my comment...

Oh, I also seriously wonder how much was shot but cut from the episode - It really felt that we getting just parts of scenes a lot of the time, and I *know* they had the Doctor's leg getting petrified by an Angel but we never saw that...