Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

[Christopher]

I don't think anyone's saying that Freiberger was a misunderstood genius -- just that he gets too much of the blame for problems that were largely out of his control. He wasn't the best choice to run the show, but maybe he could've done a better job if Roddenberry had helped him more rather than throwing him in the deep end.

 

[Harvey]

Year two of Space: 1999 was noticeably worse than year one, mainly due to the scripts. I'm not sure who exactly gets the blame for that, either, but it has to be traceable to some of the top people responsible, because it couldn't really happen by accident. That would include in Freiberger.

Having suffered through the first eight or so episodes of season one -- perhaps the worst attempt at a serious sf program I've seen this side of Stargate Universe, which borrowed rather liberally from Space: 1999, actually -- I shudder at the thought of watching season two.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Year two of Space: 1999 was noticeably worse than year one, mainly due to the scripts. I'm not sure who exactly gets the blame for that, either, but it has to be traceable to some of the top people responsible, because it couldn't really happen by accident. That would include in Freiberger.

Having suffered through the first eight or so episodes of season one -- perhaps the worst attempt at a serious sf program I've seen this side of Stargate Universe, which borrowed rather liberally from Space: 1999, actually -- I shudder at the thought of watching season two.

Yeah, you could say that being worse than year one was no easy task!

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Year two of Space: 1999 was noticeably worse than year one, mainly due to the scripts. I'm not sure who exactly gets the blame for that, either, but it has to be traceable to some of the top people responsible, because it couldn't really happen by accident. That would include in Freiberger.

Year two of Space: 1999 was noticeably worse than year one, mainly due to the scripts. I'm not sure who exactly gets the blame for that, either, but it has to be traceable to some of the top people responsible, because it couldn't really happen by accident. That would include in Freiberger.

Having suffered through the first eight or so episodes of season one -- perhaps the worst attempt at a serious sf program I've seen this side of Stargate Universe, which borrowed rather liberally from Space: 1999, actually -- I shudder at the thought of watching season two.

Year two of Space: 1999 was noticeably worse than year one, mainly due to the scripts. I'm not sure who exactly gets the blame for that, either, but it has to be traceable to some of the top people responsible, because it couldn't really happen by accident. That would include in Freiberger.

Having suffered through the first eight or so episodes of season one -- perhaps the worst attempt at a serious sf program I've seen this side of Stargate Universe, which borrowed rather liberally from Space: 1999, actually -- I shudder at the thought of watching season two.

Yeah, you could say that being worse than year one was no easy task!

Space: 1999 was shit from the concept alone (the moon would not float away from Earth, it would crash into Earth) and was not that well-acted, no matter what Johnny Byrne or John Kenneth Muir think. Hopefully, if the proposed remake by ITV Studios gets off of the ground, the concept of the moon flying through space is replaced by a space station (or L-5 habitat) doing the same thing, as shown in some artwork somebody did:

Space: 2099 / S1E2 - Any Chance of Rescue?

Space: 2099 / S1E2 - Any Chance of Rescue? (5)

 

[Warped9]

^^ That would make a lot more sense.

I watched Space:1999 not long ago. I certainly didn't care for it when it was new. When I did revisit it awhile I go I found it uneven. On a story by story basis it could have some decent ideas, but then it could have serious brain cramp. The first season is better overall than the second by quite a margin, but then that wasn't really a challenge.

The whole concept of the Moon flying through space has to be just ignored to focus on an episode's given story. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart. This really was a case of someone having an idea and not really thinking it through. No respectable SF writer would have conceived of such a thing. It's also just as well that the initial concept of this being a followup to UFO was abandoned. UFO (even with its own issues) is a series I think was a lot better than Space: 1999.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Freiberger... was a fine writer/producer in his element - which wasn't science fiction.

Except that a very large part of his resume is science fiction. He co-wrote The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, the prototype for the giant-monster genre in both America and Japan. He was a producer on The Wild Wild West and The Six Million Dollar Man for a short time as well as ST, Space: 1999, and Beyond Westworld. His writing credits include episodes of Men into Space, Sealab 2020, Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space, Super Friends, and Superboy.

I'd say the only other genre that was a major part of Freiberger's resume was Westerns. Is that what you're referring to as "his element"? It seems to me, though, that anyone working in television in the '50s and '60s would have a lot of Westerns on his resume.

Well, cartoons of the 70's weren't adult or serious science fiction. Writing Saturday morning stuff like the Super Friends, a series that didn't make any real sense, or Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space isn't in the same league as penning some Outer Limits episodes, if you get my drift. The Wild Wild West was more of a "James Bond in the West" series than sci-fi. Even The Six Million Dollar Man was primarily a secret agent action series which had occasional sci-fi episodes. The one episode he wrote was pretty standard fare. The only shows he produced that I see as legit science fiction are Star Trek, Space:1999 and Beyond Westworld, which filmed only five episodes and was mostly a chase drama. In interviews regarding Space:1999, he said his background in Saturday morning cartoons was the basis of the creativity that inspired him to create Maya. Considering the three episodes he wrote were pretty childish, it's safe to say he wasn't lying.

His work on Wild Wild West and Six Mil wasn't bad. He was fine when it came to westerns and action/adventure. He did a number of cop shows in the 70's, and his Superboy episodes fell in the first season while the series was in "crime of the week" mode. However, when it came to adult science fiction, he came up short.

 

[Christopher]

^Okay. I wasn't so much defending the quality of his science fiction work; I was just puzzled by your comment that "his element" was some genre other than SF, and I was wondering what genre you meant. Your second paragraph clears that up.

 

[Nebusj]

The whole concept of the Moon flying through space has to be just ignored to focus on an episode's given story. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart. This really was a case of someone having an idea and not really thinking it through. No respectable SF writer would have conceived of such a thing.

Well, James Blish did tolerably well with it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It reached it's nadir with "The Mark Of Gideon", where the need to place the script on the regular sets resulted in a glaring plot hole that has been rightly criticized over the years (how could an overpopulated planet build a replica of a ship the size of the Enterprise anyway?)?

It was probably the first holodeck.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Year two of Space: 1999 was noticeably worse than year one, mainly due to the scripts. I'm not sure who exactly gets the blame for that, either, but it has to be traceable to some of the top people responsible, because it couldn't really happen by accident. That would include in Freiberger.

Having suffered through the first eight or so episodes of season one -- perhaps the worst attempt at a serious sf program I've seen this side of Stargate Universe, which borrowed rather liberally from Space: 1999, actually -- I shudder at the thought of watching season two.

Having suffered through the first eight or so episodes of season one -- perhaps the worst attempt at a serious sf program I've seen this side of Stargate Universe, which borrowed rather liberally from Space: 1999, actually -- I shudder at the thought of watching season two.

Yeah, you could say that being worse than year one was no easy task!

Space: 1999 was shit from the concept alone (the moon would not float away from Earth, it would crash into Earth) and was not that well-acted, no matter what Johnny Byrne or John Kenneth Muir think. Hopefully, if the proposed remake by ITV Studios gets off of the ground, the concept of the moon flying through space is replaced by a space station (or L-5 habitat) doing the same thing, as shown in some artwork somebody did:

Space: 2099 / S1E2 - Any Chance of Rescue?

Space: 2099 / S1E2 - Any Chance of Rescue? (5)

... None of which invalidates my point. The show, by some feat, managing to get worse in year two only supports it, assuming of course that one believes it actually did get worse.

 

[Ssosmcin]

^Okay. I wasn't so much defending the quality of his science fiction work; I was just puzzled by your comment that "his element" was some genre other than SF, and I was wondering what genre you meant. Your second paragraph clears that up.

Cool. And I still feel, even with all that, he did the best he could in a really bad situation. A lot of concepts fans loved came out of that year. If I had any complaints, it was over the plethora of love stories. Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty each had one and they all had to step out of character to do it. At least Kirk, Spock and McCoy had other stimuli influencing their behavior. Scotty was just sappy.

 

[Christopher]

The whole concept of the Moon flying through space has to be just ignored to focus on an episode's given story. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart. This really was a case of someone having an idea and not really thinking it through. No respectable SF writer would have conceived of such a thing.

Well, James Blish did tolerably well with it.

If you're referring to Cities in Flight, the mass of, say, Manhattan Island is minuscule compared to the mass of the Moon. It's like the difference between moving a boulder and moving a mountain.

It reached it's nadir with "The Mark Of Gideon", where the need to place the script on the regular sets resulted in a glaring plot hole that has been rightly criticized over the years (how could an overpopulated planet build a replica of a ship the size of the Enterprise anyway?)?

It was probably the first holodeck.

Well, not the first, since the Xyrillians had them by 2151. But yes, that's how I rationalize the Gideon duplicate.

 

[Warped9]

The holodeck idea is still flawed because it still hinges on having exact recordings of the Enterprise. That means familiar wear marks and scratches on floors, equipment and such and the inclusion of the crews' personal touches. Otherwise it just makes no sense whatsoever. Kirk only had to go to his own quarters to see something was off.

The only way this could possibly work is if Kirk's mind were being manipulated with drugs or some other agent to distort his perceptions of reality so that he wouldn't really notice that things weren't right.

It happens again in "Requiem For Methuselah." The only plausible way Kirk could fall for Rayna so hard and so fast is if his mind had been tampered with. Maybe when they all drank Flint's liqour is when Kirk could have been drugged. Something like that is the only way to buy into Kirk's suvsequent behaviour.

 

[Zaku]

Can it match?
Ask Isaac Asimov (http://catacombs.space1999.net/press/vxasimov2.html) and Michael Jahn (http://catacombs.space1999.net/press/wrefpcue.html)!

 

[Warped9]

During my revisit I will say there were parts of Space: 1999 that were batter than I expected and remembered. But that being said none of it was ever near what could be found in TOS.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Space: 1999 came on in 1975. Star Trek was still exciting and futuristic at the time, if not quite edgy anymore, but we had every episode memorized. Its pleasures were now part and parcel with its familiarity.

This was two years before Star Wars would come out and kick off an avalanche of sci-fi on TV. There was very little to choose from on TV in general (with only four channels or so), and next to no sci-fi.

So when Space: 1999 was in first run, I thought it was a great show. I was hungry for space adventure and on top of that, as a kid my critical faculties were not fully developed yet. I accepted the show on its own terms.

If I sat through The Starlost, you can be pretty sure Space: 1999 seemed like a masterpiece.

 

[Warped9]

See, I couldn't sit through The Starlost. As a Canadian kid I was somewhat intrigued about a Canadian produced sci-fi series. But, alas, The Starlost was brutal. And back in the day I didn't think 1999 was much better.

 

[Christopher]

I think I managed to miss The Starlost, or if I ever saw any of it, it didn't leave a clear impression. But I watched Space: 1999, and I seem to recall liking it enough, but I didn't have much taste as a kid. I was aware, though, how absurd its premise was.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I think I managed to miss The Starlost, or if I ever saw any of it, it didn't leave a clear impression. But I watched Space: 1999, and I seem to recall liking it enough, but I didn't have much taste as a kid. I was aware, though, how absurd its premise was.

Nobody has much taste as a kid! Maybe that's why I watched all those sci-fi bandwagon shows that came out after Star Wars (although I still say some of them were good). And maybe that's why the Star Wars prequels and JJ-Trek are such big hits with fans younger than me.

 

[Warped9]

I think I managed to miss The Starlost, or if I ever saw any of it, it didn't leave a clear impression.

Then you were spared, my friend.

In all fairness what I recall of the premise wasn't bad in itself, but the execution was brutal. The idea that these inhabitants (three of them anyway) aboard a generation ship (with no understanding that they are aboard a space ship) inadvertently learn the true nature of their existence and that the ship is in danger. They then take it upon themselves to search for a way to save the ship and everyone aboard even though most don't believe they are actually living in an artificial world.