Season FIVE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[jimbotron]

And don't forget that very explosion was used for the destruction of the Enterprise D's star drive section in Generations. For all the times that explosion has been used throughout Star Trek's history, I'm surprised they haven't used it at least once in the restoration. It's a fairly nice looking explosion in my opinion.

They did. It's used at the end of Evolution (as in the original):

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x01/evolution_hd_409.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x01/evolution_hd_410.jpg

Speaking of explosions, here's another example of reuse:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g40/DledRhapsody/shieldgenerator.jpg
http://geeksoulbrother.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/death-star-explosion.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd1286.jpg

The Reliant explosion has been used a few times too, such as in Night Terrors.

 

[Admiral Bear]

My Italian season 4 from Amazon.it came from the Amazon UK warehouse. Was a bit pissed that I'd paid nearly £6 for supposed postage from Italy. Still saved myself £9 on the UK version price.

It probably didn't come directly from the UK warehouse. My amazon.it orders always come from the Amazon GER warehouse - but it always takes a day longer. My guess is, that amazon.it collects all orders of the day which don't go to Italy, packs them in big boxes and ships them to the warehouse in other countries. From there they are shipped individually to the customer. Probably cheaper.

I suppose that's possible, although it's a hell of an arse over tit way of doing things.

My suspicion is that UK Amazon holds much of the stock sold across all of Amazon's European sites, just as the German Amazon seems to. I assume the British, French, and German Amazon operations have to service the whole of Europe, so it makes sense that most of the depots in those countries will hold duplicate stock. You said yourself that your Amazon.it order came from Germany, so it's possible Italy doesn't have a warehouse.

What country do you live in? I'm assuming you're in Italy or Germany. Your order probably came from the nearest warehouse, just as I suspect my Season 4 set also came from the nearest warehouse ie the UK.

 

[Salinga]

The commentary of Ronald D. Moore and Naren Shankar on "The First Duty" was a blast. They both told a lot about the episode and sometimes even giggled around like school boys, like they were back in their 20s. A very fun commentary to listen to. Moore really does very good commentaries!

So, here is a fun fact from that commentary: One reaction shot of Picard in that episode is actually Patrick Stewart waking up from a snooze.

 

[Salinga]

And Braga really liked to crap on his work

I noticed that too. On the ENT Blus, with him moderating the cast reunion, at one point even Scott Bakula had to jump in and stop Braga from painting everything about ENT so negative.

Braga seems to be a kind of depressed guy. I even noticed it again on the CaE commentary when he said in a sad voice "Man, I really miss that show" (TNG he ment).

 

[dg1379]

The commentary of Ronald D. Moore and Naren Shankar on "The First Duty" was a blast. They both told a lot about the episode and sometimes even giggled around like school boys, like they were back in their 20s. A very fun commentary to listen to. Moore really does very good commentaries!

So, here is a fun fact from that commentary: One reaction shot of Picard in that episode is actually Patrick Stewart waking up from a snooze.

That particular scene is hilarious now!

 

[Tosk]

So, here is a fun fact from that commentary: One reaction shot of Picard in that episode is actually Patrick Stewart waking up from a snooze.

I haven't listened to it yet, but is it when Wesley finally admits the truth at the end of the deposition? There's a shot there where Picard has a "eyes slightly closed but eyebrows up" look on his face that I always thought seemed odd. If it is, I never considered he may have been asleep!

 

[SpHeRe31459]

And Braga really liked to crap on his work

I noticed that too. On the ENT Blus, with him moderating the cast reunion, at one point even Scott Bakula had to jump in and stop Braga from painting everything about ENT so negative.

Braga seems to be a kind of depressed guy. I even noticed it again on the CaE commentary when he said in a sad voice "Man, I really miss that show" (TNG he ment).

Yeah I think he's given himself a complex from all the years of angry fan stuff online, he's gotten really self-deprecating and negative about things.

 

[Doug Otte]

And Braga really liked to crap on his work

I noticed that too. On the ENT Blus, with him moderating the cast reunion, at one point even Scott Bakula had to jump in and stop Braga from painting everything about ENT so negative.

Braga seems to be a kind of depressed guy. I even noticed it again on the CaE commentary when he said in a sad voice "Man, I really miss that show" (TNG he ment).

Yeah I think he's given himself a complex from all the years of angry fan stuff online, he's gotten really self-deprecating and negative about things.

I haven't even cracked open Season 5 yet (still halfway through 4), but he's never seemed very respectful of the franchise or his own work. In the Season 3 writers' roundtable, he seemed to have almost no memory of his experiences or what he wrote. He either has early dementia (no joking; my Dad had Alzheimer's), or his experiences meant so little to him that they're wiped from his memories.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I noticed that too. On the ENT Blus, with him moderating the cast reunion, at one point even Scott Bakula had to jump in and stop Braga from painting everything about ENT so negative.

Braga seems to be a kind of depressed guy. I even noticed it again on the CaE commentary when he said in a sad voice "Man, I really miss that show" (TNG he ment).

Yeah I think he's given himself a complex from all the years of angry fan stuff online, he's gotten really self-deprecating and negative about things.

I haven't even cracked open Season 5 yet (still halfway through 4), but he's never seemed very respectful of the franchise or his own work. In the Season 3 writers' roundtable, he seemed to have almost no memory of his experiences or what he wrote. He either has early dementia (no joking; my Dad had Alzheimer's), or his experiences meant so little to him that they're wiped from his memories.

I don't think it's that at all. I remember interviews with him back in the day, and he was really proud of "Cause and Effect." The trouble with that episode is that it's simply an inferior version of Frederick Pohl's "The Tunnel Under the World." And it's probably Braga's best work.

I think his experiences certainly meant something to him back in the day. Most of us know what happened between Moore and Braga; that Brannon Braga was certainly sure of himself. It's understandable; he and Moore were both young, probably both a little cocky after coming off two TNG features. Moore left, whereas Braga moved on up in the Trek ranks to co-showrunner with Berman on VOY and co-creator on ENT and had to take the brunt of fan criticism (not to mention Moore's public personal attacks).

The feeling I get from Braga is not that the experience meant nothing to him, but that it did mean something to him; otherwise the criticisms wouldn't have hurt him.

Braga has always reminded me of Andy Warhol, an ambitious artist with absolutely nothing to say whatsoever.

 

[jimbotron]

or his experiences meant so little to him that they're wiped from his memories.

Perhaps that explains why after creating one of the worst Trek episodes ever and called it Threshold, he created a show and called it...Threshold.

 

[SpHeRe31459]

I don't think it's that at all. I remember interviews with him back in the day, and he was really proud of "Cause and Effect."

Agreed, and I think that's why I find that commentary so off putting, he doesn't really even say he's really proud of his work here, he mostly just talks about what's wrong or dated or whatever and jokes with Seth MacFarlane about things.
He's much more candid about things on the ENT Blu-ray season set interviews so far.

The feeling I get from Braga is not that the experience meant nothing to him, but that it did mean something to him; otherwise the criticisms wouldn't have hurt him.

Braga has always reminded me of Andy Warhol, an ambitious artist with absolutely nothing to say whatsoever.

Well put. That's what I was saying, that's why he has the complex, he took it all in, as some who appears to be a bit of a sensitive artist type.

 

[jimbotron]

MacFarlane is just a really horrible moderator. He kept interjecting when Braga had something to say, and didn't lead Braga into expounding on things. If there's another Braga commentary, I hope it's with the Okudas.

 

[Salinga]

He was on that commentary, not on the writers reunion. He did a good job there, because he came prepared and was asking questions.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

I don't think it's that at all. I remember interviews with him back in the day, and he was really proud of "Cause and Effect." The trouble with that episode is that it's simply an inferior version of Frederick Pohl's "The Tunnel Under the World." And it's probably Braga's best work.

I'm curious, what makes you think that it was specifically that story which led Braga to write "Cause and Effect"? Is there an interview where he cites it as inspiration? I know he's cited Borges' "The Garden of Forking Paths" as inspiration for "Parallels," but I'm not aware of him citing "The Tunnel Under the World."

In Pohl's story, what's actually happening is that everyone in the town has been recreated as a miniature android, imbued with the memories of a citizen in the real town, which was destroyed. An advertising executive is using these A.I.'s to test various advertising techniques.

That's quite a bit different than "Cause and Effect." The only similarity is a repeating time loop and an explosion. Isn't it equally as likely that Braga simply saw the Academy Award nominated short "12:01 PM" in 1990 (based on the 1973 short story by Richard A. Lupoff) and wanted to do that as an episode?

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUGYwNzez3g[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRVvTMSnmj8[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bxX8Beb8Ec[/yt]

 

[Doug Otte]

Yeah I think he's given himself a complex from all the years of angry fan stuff online, he's gotten really self-deprecating and negative about things.

I haven't even cracked open Season 5 yet (still halfway through 4), but he's never seemed very respectful of the franchise or his own work. In the Season 3 writers' roundtable, he seemed to have almost no memory of his experiences or what he wrote. He either has early dementia (no joking; my Dad had Alzheimer's), or his experiences meant so little to him that they're wiped from his memories.

I don't think it's that at all. I remember interviews with him back in the day, and he was really proud of "Cause and Effect." The trouble with that episode is that it's simply an inferior version of Frederick Pohl's "The Tunnel Under the World." And it's probably Braga's best work.

I think his experiences certainly meant something to him back in the day. Most of us know what happened between Moore and Braga; that Brannon Braga was certainly sure of himself. It's understandable; he and Moore were both young, probably both a little cocky after coming off two TNG features. Moore left, whereas Braga moved on up in the Trek ranks to co-showrunner with Berman on VOY and co-creator on ENT and had to take the brunt of fan criticism (not to mention Moore's public personal attacks).

The feeling I get from Braga is not that the experience meant nothing to him, but that it did mean something to him; otherwise the criticisms wouldn't have hurt him.

Braga has always reminded me of Andy Warhol, an ambitious artist with absolutely nothing to say whatsoever.

Thanks for the input. I stand corrected about his pride in his work. However, didn't you find it odd and a bit alarming how he claimed to not have any memory of some of his scripts during the writers' roundtable?

 

[SpHeRe31459]

Thanks for the input. I stand corrected about his pride in his work. However, didn't you find it odd and a bit alarming how he claimed to not have any memory of some of his scripts during the writers' roundtable?

In his defense, the guy is responsible (in some fashion) for 100's of hours of the Trek franchise. I'm not really surprised he's lost the details of his earliest work.

He's much more tuned in when he talks about Enterprise, his most recent work for the franchise.

Remember he was a fresh faced 25 year old intern when he started on TNG.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Thanks for the input. I stand corrected about his pride in his work. However, didn't you find it odd and a bit alarming how he claimed to not have any memory of some of his scripts during the writers' roundtable?

How long did they spend on each script as they were pumping them all out? Maybe they pumped them out seemingly so fast that it's tough to get too attached to some of the ones that don't stand out. It's been a long time and he's been working on a lot since then, I didn't really see that much wrong with it. Especially since, unlike us, they don't memorize and watch and re-watch these episodes and make sure they're forever burned into their mind. It's the same thing with actors. Some of them remember their past roles well, others are more along the lines of "Kid, I don't know, I said the lines then was immediately focused on the next one".

 

[Hober Mallow]

I'm curious, what makes you think that it was specifically that story which led Braga to write "Cause and Effect"?

I doubt Braga ever read the story. For all I know, Braga may have thought he invented the time-loop story. While the cause of the main character's experiencing the same day again and again and the story's resolution are totally different from "Cause and Effect," of course, "Tunnel" is the earliest "Groundhog Day" time-loop (or apparent time-loop) story I'm aware of.

 

[Doug Otte]

Thanks for the input. I stand corrected about his pride in his work. However, didn't you find it odd and a bit alarming how he claimed to not have any memory of some of his scripts during the writers' roundtable?

How long did they spend on each script as they were pumping them all out? Maybe they pumped them out seemingly so fast that it's tough to get too attached to some of the ones that don't stand out. It's been a long time and he's been working on a lot since then, I didn't really see that much wrong with it. Especially since, unlike us, they don't memorize and watch and re-watch these episodes and make sure they're forever burned into their mind. It's the same thing with actors. Some of them remember their past roles well, others are more along the lines of "Kid, I don't know, I said the lines then was immediately focused on the next one".

Your response (and others') makes sense, especially the highlighted section above. During the writers' roundtable, Moore remembered every detail, but of course he was a huge fan from the beginning. Perhaps Braga's forgetfulness stood out to me in contrast to Moore's memories.

 

[SpHeRe31459]

Your response (and others') makes sense, especially the highlighted section above. During the writers' roundtable, Moore remembered every detail, but of course he was a huge fan from the beginning. Perhaps Braga's forgetfulness stood out to me in contrast to Moore's memories.

I agree with that, Braga and Moore are quite the contrast. It's very clear Moore still really cares about Trek and loves it deeply. He's said in most of his commentaries that he went back and looked at his original script notes and re-watched the episode before he came into do the new commentary.

He tears up a little when talking about Gene Roddenberry and his passing in the documentary Trek Nation, and seems pretty emotional when talking about it again in the S5 docs.

Braga on the other hand is browbeaten about his Trek. Since he's responsible for the last half of VOY and of course co-created ENT, and we all know he got tons of flak for ENT.

FYI: For those not watching the ENT Blu-ray sets, in the S2 documentary the ENT writing team talk about how they were literally mailed someone's garbage by an angry fan, with a note that said "this is what you're doing to Star Trek".

Moore never got that, he gets accolades for DS9 (rightly so), and then he saw the writing on the wall and got out of the franchise.

All that being said, the "Cause and Effect" commentary is still quite poor, it doesn't excuse that.