The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

[Mr Light]

Well they do say they've used up all the crazy time travel weapons in the movie. When the Doctor breaks into the weapons vault the only thing left was the one thing they were unable to use, The Moment.

So basically the opening stages of the War were totally bonkers with Nightmare Childs and Never Weres or whatever they were called... but eventually all stuff was used up and they were down to a flat out invasion.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Personally, I find that the character in the new series is defined by his guilt and shame over the fact that he can always save the day and find solutions to all manner of problems through "creativity and ingenuity" yet when it came to the Time War the only thing that worked in the end was eradicating his own race.

I would agree that the show & the character had come to be defined by the Doctor's guilt & shame on the new series. Less so during the Matt Smith years but it was still there. And frankly, I'm sick of it. There have just been too many downers on the show in recent years. I mean, every time a companion leaves the show now, it's portrayed as a tragedy of earth-shattering proportions. (Except for Martha, but even that departure was pretty damn maudlin & melancholy.) It had become a show defined primarily by what the Doctor has lost over the years. Even when the writers gave something new to the Doctor, they only did it so that they can take it away later.

Well, to quote John Hurt, "NO MORE"! I like the idea that Gallifrey is out there somewhere. I'm not saying that the Doctor is going to find it anytime soon, nor should he. (It's possible that Moffat has more specific plans but I suspect that the Doctor won't find Gallifrey for at least another 5-8 seasons.) I just like the idea that the Doctor has something to hope for and something to move towards.

But then, I suppose I'm less bothered by this development then some people because I always figured that the Time Lords would come back in some capacity. (Heck, I was fairly surprised that it didn't happen at the end of "The End of Time.")

I like the "Everybody lives!" endings.

Me too.

Spoiler: the novel "Touched by an Angel"

Slightly off topic, but I was recently reading the 11th Doctor novel "Touched by an Angel" and I really hated the ending. I hated it because I had really grown to like the guest stars in it and I wanted things to work out for them. Now, sometimes the bummer ending works, like in "Father's Day." But I really wasn't in the mood for that this time. I wanted a the-Doctor-does-something-really-clever-and-saves-everyone ending.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good death too. But every once in a while, the hero just needs to win.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Watched it again last night and thought it was great - except for the stick-out-like-a-sore-motherfucking-ten-foot-thumb Jon Culshaw impression of Hartnell. Which is so bad I didn't realise until re-viewing that it was supposed to *be* Hartnell and not Tom...

Why the fuck didn't they get the pitch-perfect Hartnell impersonator from that Youtube remake of the now-lost trailer for An Unearthly Child? Y'know, the one guy who actually sounds like Hartnell?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

But it wasn't Jon Culshaw. It was John Guilor.

 

[Lonemagpie]

<looks at the credits again> fucking hell, so it *was* the same guy - so why was he so fucking Jon Culshaw in this when we know he can do it perfectly elsewhere?

 

[Saul]

After rewatching it I think the timeline of the Doctor's may have actually changed. There is a line in there about timelines being out of sync (Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey) and that the War Doctor won't remember trying to save it but instead burning it.

 

[Christopher]

No, the "timelines out of sync" reference was a bit of continuity porn to retroactively explain why, in "The Three Doctors," "The Five Doctors," and "The Two Doctors" in the classic series, the later Doctors never seemed to remember the events from the perspective of their earlier selves. Fans have been wondering about that for decades, so Moffat, who's the ultimate ascended fanboy/continuity geek, threw in a line to "explain" it.

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.

 

[DWF]

No, the "timelines out of sync" reference was a bit of continuity porn to retroactively explain why, in "The Three Doctors," "The Five Doctors," and "The Two Doctors" in the classic series, the later Doctors never seemed to remember the events from the perspective of their earlier selves. Fans have been wondering about that for decades, so Moffat, who's the ultimate ascended fanboy/continuity geek, threw in a line to "explain" it.

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.

The second Doctor remembered Omega as we learned in The Five Doctors and the tenth Doctor took the memory of the fifth Doctor to solve the problme in Time Crash. There's realyl very little evidence to support the idea that they can't remember meeting their previous selves.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.

In your opinion. The episode itself supports both cases, at least.

 

[DWF]

Personally, I find that the character in the new series is defined by his guilt and shame over the fact that he can always save the day and find solutions to all manner of problems through "creativity and ingenuity" yet when it came to the Time War the only thing that worked in the end was eradicating his own race.

I would agree that the show & the character had come to be defined by the Doctor's guilt & shame on the new series. Less so during the Matt Smith years but it was still there. And frankly, I'm sick of it. There have just been too many downers on the show in recent years. I mean, every time a companion leaves the show now, it's portrayed as a tragedy of earth-shattering proportions. (Except for Martha, but even that departure was pretty damn maudlin & melancholy.) It had become a show defined primarily by what the Doctor has lost over the years. Even when the writers gave something new to the Doctor, they only did it so that they can take it away later.

Well, to quote John Hurt, "NO MORE"! I like the idea that Gallifrey is out there somewhere. I'm not saying that the Doctor is going to find it anytime soon, nor should he. (It's possible that Moffat has more specific plans but I suspect that the Doctor won't find Gallifrey for at least another 5-8 seasons.) I just like the idea that the Doctor has something to hope for and something to move towards.

But then, I suppose I'm less bothered by this development then some people because I always figured that the Time Lords would come back in some capacity. (Heck, I was fairly surprised that it didn't happen at the end of "The End of Time.")

Well while Gallifrey was saved there's still the billions who died during the Time War and ones who lost their homeworlds like the Zygons, Gelth and Nestines, they're stil dead and gone and there's little chance of them returning to life. And the return of Gallifrey also means the possiblity of a restart of the Time War since the Daleks are now back up to their full power as well.

Doctor Who has always has a balance of tragedy and comedy. And it seems as though whenever they do a lighter ep. on the newer series they're always seen as being to lightweight in people's eyes, so in a way they can't seem ot win.

 

[Christopher]

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.

In your opinion.

An opinion which is shared by the authors of the show's wiki, and which is supported by a Moffat interview which I quoted earlier. I base my opinions on the evidence, and I've already cited that evidence in this thread.

 

[MacLeod]

I'm also of the opinion that history didn't change and the events in "The Day of The Doctor" (TDOTD) are always what happened. But I'm open for a counter argument.

We aren't witnessing a do over in TDOTD, but rather what happened after The Doctor stole The Moment.

He takes it some planet and activates it.

The Moment shows him his future if he goes through with it

He visits his future selves

He learns what he needs to do

His future selves come to the planet he orignally took the Moment to

They concoct a plan to save Gallifrey

The Doctor will forget he actually saved Gallifrey (Until the timeline comes back into synch)

Perhaps I'm not seeing it but where is it implied that the Doctor changed history, sure the Doctor might think he is changing history, but due to the forgetting the events he was under the false impression that Gallifrey had burned, so from his POV he might consider it a change but in reality it wasn't.

And The Moment did end the Time War, just not in some big explosion.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.

In your opinion.

An opinion which is shared by the authors of the show's wiki, and which is supported by a Moffat interview which I quoted earlier. I base my opinions on the evidence, and I've already cited that evidence in this thread.

And anyone else who doesn't support your view doesn't look at the evidence? Like the show itself?

And Moffat has said otherwise in another interview anyway, and besides, there's evidence on both sides to support either argument - which I did say, but you chose not to quote for some reason.

And personally, I am rather against the idea that the Doctor didn't rewrite his own history, because the idea that he did is part of what makes the story so special. That even after through it all, he can still change his own past. Which he did.

 

[jbny67]

No, the "timelines out of sync" reference was a bit of continuity porn to retroactively explain why, in "The Three Doctors," "The Five Doctors," and "The Two Doctors" in the classic series, the later Doctors never seemed to remember the events from the perspective of their earlier selves. Fans have been wondering about that for decades, so Moffat, who's the ultimate ascended fanboy/continuity geek, threw in a line to "explain" it.

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.

The second Doctor remembered Omega as we learned in The Five Doctors and the tenth Doctor took the memory of the fifth Doctor to solve the problme in Time Crash. There's realyl very little evidence to support the idea that they can't remember meeting their previous selves.

You can also look at it this way...

After a multiple Doctor event the earlier Doctors don't remember it until it happens.
So, in Time Crash 10 only starts to remember the event after 5 arrives in the T.A.R.D.I.S.
The same way 11 sort of remembers things when the portal opens up in Day of The Doctor.
By the time he's actually doing the things he does to the console, the entire memory of the event has returned.

As far as 2 remembering things in The Five Doctors, season 6b was created by the fans to try and explain that and other things from that story as well as The Two Doctors.
Some love that explanation, some hate it.
Perhaps Moffat gave us an explanation for that as well.
That wasn't the second Doctor. It was a future Doctor re-visiting an old face.

 

[Jax]

Final ratings came out...

The Day of the Doctor had a final confirmed audience on BBC One of 12.8 million viewers.

The rating is the highest for Doctor Who since the Christmas 2008 story The Next Doctor which had 13.1 million, and is the highest ever time-shift recorded for the programme. The rating is likely to make Doctor Who the highest rated show for the week.

The episode has been accessed more than 2.7 million times on the BBC iPlayer

 

[RoJoHen]

Neat!

Have we seen numbers from the theatre showings? I know my local theatre had to add 4 extra screenings because it sold out so fast.

 

[Mr Light]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/11/26/doctor-who-box-office/

A special nationwide 3D screening of the Doctor Who 50th anniversary TV special “Day of the Doctor” grossed a stunning $4.8 million at the U.S. box office.
What makes this particularly impressive: That’s from one night. The 75-minute “Day of the Doctor” screened in 660 theaters as a one-night-only special event Monday and averaged $7,155 per location, with 320,000 tickets sold. Granted, the tix were $15 a pop, so that certainly helped.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Spoiler: the novel "Touched by an Angel"

Slightly off topic, but I was recently reading the 11th Doctor novel "Touched by an Angel" and I really hated the ending. I hated it because I had really grown to like the guest stars in it and I wanted things to work out for them. Now, sometimes the bummer ending works, like in "Father's Day." But I really wasn't in the mood for that this time. I wanted a the-Doctor-does-something-really-clever-and-saves-everyone ending.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good death too. But every once in a while, the hero just needs to win.

I was not a fan of that book. I didn't find Mark a particularly likeable character, the writing was very superficial, the characterization was shallow, and it was emotionally flat until the ending where it became emotionally manipulative. I felt like Jonathan Morris' pitch for the book was "One Day (David Nicholls' novel, later a movie), with the eleventh Doctor and the Weeping Angels." The back cover blurb promised a darker story than we got. I really wanted to like Touched By an Angel, and I didn't.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Doctor Who has always has a balance of tragedy and comedy. And it seems as though whenever they do a lighter ep. on the newer series they're always seen as being to lightweight in people's eyes, so in a way they can't seem ot win.

I usually like the lighter episodes as well as the darker episodes. My favorite Tennant episode is "Midnight." My favorite Smith episode is "The Lodger." If that's not contrast, I don't know what is.

On the lighter side, I also really liked "The Eleventh Hour," "Closing Time," & "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship."

"Love & Monsters" was a piece of crap but not because it's a "lighter" episode.

As far as 2 remembering things in The Five Doctors, season 6b was created by the fans to try and explain that and other things from that story as well as The Two Doctors.
Some love that explanation, some hate it.

Season 6b isn't just a fan construct. Terrance Dicks himself legitimized the concept in his novels "Players" & "World Game."

Spoiler: the novel "Touched by an Angel"

Slightly off topic, but I was recently reading the 11th Doctor novel "Touched by an Angel" and I really hated the ending. I hated it because I had really grown to like the guest stars in it and I wanted things to work out for them. Now, sometimes the bummer ending works, like in "Father's Day." But I really wasn't in the mood for that this time. I wanted a the-Doctor-does-something-really-clever-and-saves-everyone ending.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good death too. But every once in a while, the hero just needs to win.

I was not a fan of that book. I didn't find Mark a particularly likeable character, the writing was very superficial, the characterization was shallow, and it was emotionally flat until the ending where it became emotionally manipulative. I felt like Jonathan Morris' pitch for the book was "One Day (David Nicholls' novel, later a movie), with the eleventh Doctor and the Weeping Angels." The back cover blurb promised a darker story than we got. I really wanted to like Touched By an Angel, and I didn't.

Mark was a so-so character but I just couldn't help falling head-over-heels for Rebecca. I suppose I'm projecting a lot of my own feelings & fantasies onto the character but I think that was the idea.

But then, I suppose I'm eager to like the book because it's an 11th Doctor novel that actually gets Amy & Rory right. (So many of them don't. "The King's Dragon" & "Nuclear Time" are particularly bad in that respect.) But "Touched by an Angel" is certainly nowhere near as good as "Borrowed Time" or "Dead of Winter."

 

[PorthosShadow]

Well while Gallifrey was saved there's still the billions who died during the Time War and ones who lost their homeworlds like the Zygons, Gelth and Nestines, they're stil dead and gone and there's little chance of them returning to life. And the return of Gallifrey also means the possibility of a restart of the Time War since the Daleks are now back up to their full power as well.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic here but if and when The Time Lords come out of the shadows it's entirely possible The Dalaks might not be so eager to start another war. The same goes for The Time Lords. Both sides realized the conflict came to nothing but death and also, the current Dalaks are a new breed of Dalak. I don't know if there is a difference between the Time War Dalaks and the Big Bang II Dalaks but I want to believe there is.