Is Daredevil Closer to a "costumed hero" or a "superhero"

[sonak]

I'm not really sure I agree with the distinction anyway - I'd consider Batman a superhero.

This.

Non powered heroes are still superheroes. Batman, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, etc are usually out there not just fighting muggers but a bunch of supervillains, the same as the heroes with powers. I really don't think you can put them in a separate category just because they lack powers. Trying to separate characters into "superhero" and "costumed hero" categories is kind of pointless.

And this.

Trying to draw a distinction with the non-powered/street-level superheroes reminds me of when a friend of mine insisted that Batman wasn't a superhero, he was a detective who happened to wear a costume.

Superheroes are a genre of larger-than-life characters who do extraordinary things for the greater good, usually with costumes and often with secret identities. Anyone who thinks that a character like Batman is an an "ordinary person" needs a reality check.

Of course I realize that Batman is not a realistic depiction of a detective or anything like that. No Human could actually do the stuff he's shown to do, and live the kind of life he does without getting killed, especially since he doesn't use guns and avoids killing or permanent injury to others when he fights. Punisher is actually a more realistic version of how a vigilante fighting serious crime with no powers would have to operate.

That said, a distinction is still usually drawn between costumed heroes with no superpowers and other comic book characters. James Bond is larger than life and not realistic but he's not super-powered.

 

[The Old Mixer]

James Bond is simply a different genre...he's never been a superhero in the traditional sense. His film adventures have gotten much larger than life at times, but his roots in Fleming's novels are somewhat more grounded.

 

[jbny67]

Batman is super-crazy. That is his power.

No, his power is his ability to prepare.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Batman is super-crazy. That is his power.

No, his power is his ability to prepare.

Batman: Party Planner.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Don't forget super-overrated and super-overexposed.

 

[bbjeg]

If Batman counts as a superhero, would a group like SEAL Team Six count as superheroes?

 

[The Old Mixer]

No, because they're REAL.

 

[Christopher]

If Batman counts as a superhero, would a group like SEAL Team Six count as superheroes?

As I said above, "superhero" refers to a particular method and style of operation, a particular subculture and iconography that exists within fictional universes. Two people might have equivalent physical and mental abilities and an equivalent dedication to fighting crime, but if one adopts a unique costume and a code name and swings from rooftops and joins the Justice League while the other enrolls in the police academy and earns a badge and joins the SWAT team, then one is a superhero and the other isn't.

In both Batman: Year One and Mask of the Phantasm, we saw Bruce Wayne putting on a ski mask and using his years of training to take on criminals. But it wasn't until he became Batman, until he adopted a unique and symbolic persona and exceptional methods, that he could be called a superhero.

 

[bbjeg]

If Batman counts as a superhero, would a group like SEAL Team Six count as superheroes?

As I said above, "superhero" refers to a particular method and style of operation, a particular subculture and iconography that exists within fictional universes...

I got that because he's in a comic book, he could be titled whatever...

...but if one adopts a unique costume and a code name and swings from rooftops...

but they do all of that stuff.

and joins the Justice League...

I'm sure the organization that employs them would like to think that they were.

 

[The Old Mixer]

^Your argument relies upon blurring the lines between fantasy and reality, and that's not generally a good thing.

Fictional characters who are/were members of special forces organizations like the Navy SEALs, such as Tom Clancy's John Clark and Domingo Chavez, simply fall within a different genre.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If Batman counts as a superhero, would a group like SEAL Team Six count as superheroes?

As I said above, "superhero" refers to a particular method and style of operation, a particular subculture and iconography that exists within fictional universes...

I got that because he's in a comic book, he could be titled whatever,

...but if one adopts a unique costume and a code name and swings from rooftops...

but they do all of that stuff,

and joins the Justice League...

I'm sure the organization that employs them would like to think that they were.

Do they dress up like seals? Drive a sealmobile and respond to the sealsignal?

SEALS wear uniforms not costumes. They are in the military, not some ad hoc group of vigilantes. I think they might have nicknames, but that's not the same as a code name.

 

[JoeZhang]

The problem with that is that Firelord is on the cosmic scale and Spider-man beat him down...

 

[bbjeg]

Would you call the Punisher a superhero? He received advanced training like Batman, uses gear that your average person doesn't to get the job done, and dawns a costume in a fictional world. I would call him an antihero or vigilante.

 

[JoeZhang]

Serial killer?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Would you call the Punisher a superhero? He received advanced training like Batman, uses gear that your average person doesn't to get the job done, and dawns a costume in a fictional world, though I would call him an antihero or vigilante.

He's not a hero. So no, he's not a superhero either.

 

[Christopher]

Would you call the Punisher a superhero? He received advanced training like Batman, uses gear that your average person doesn't to get the job done, and dawns a costume in a fictional world, though I would call him an antihero or vigilante.

I'd call him a villain and a sociopath. He doesn't really wear a costume, he wears a t-shirt. And his "gear" is just guns and bombs, stuff any mercenary or soldier of fortune or terrorist would use.

Trying to approach this reductionistically is missing the point, I think. "Superhero" is an entire persona, and is part of a larger social context. Think of the difference between an actor and a celebrity, or a musician and a rock star. The distinction isn't so much functional as a matter of style and perception and cultural gestalt.

 

[JoeZhang]

Would you call the Punisher a superhero? He received advanced training like Batman, uses gear that your average person doesn't to get the job done, and dawns a costume in a fictional world, though I would call him an antihero or vigilante.

I'd call him a villain and a sociopath. He doesn't really wear a costume, he wears a t-shirt. And his "gear" is just guns and bombs, stuff any mercenary or soldier of fortune or terrorist would use.

Trying to approach this reductionistically is missing the point, I think. "Superhero" is an entire persona, and is part of a larger social context. Think of the difference between an actor and a celebrity, or a musician and a rock star. The distinction isn't so much functional as a matter of style and perception and cultural gestalt.

That's is the max version and for only a short period the mainstream marvel universe version - for the majority of his history he has wore a very clear costume and currently does.

 

[bbjeg]

... I think. "Superhero" is an entire persona, and is part of a larger social context. Think of the difference between an actor and a celebrity, or a musician and a rock star. The distinction isn't so much functional as a matter of style and perception and cultural gestalt.

I'll go along with that.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Would you call the Punisher a superhero? He received advanced training like Batman, uses gear that your average person doesn't to get the job done, and dawns a costume in a fictional world. I would call him an antihero or vigilante.

The Greg Rucka version would probably be considered an anti-hero. The Ennis and Aaron version is just a nutjob.

 

[stj]

I don't really know The Punisher except from trailers. But it sure seemed to me that he used guns first because he could be shot. If he doesn't have the power not to be shot and doesn't have any other powers, then he's not a superhero.