Starfleet Procurement Policy Draft

[Egger]

Yeah. I was also a bit quick in my reply as I forgot to add that IMHO once the shields go down (or in Odyssey's case, "divert shield power to weapons") pretty much the whole ship is vulnerable. A neck hit, engineering hull or nacelle hit could be just as fatal or crippling against a powerful weapon or ship ramming into it.

Yeah. And I just thought, if they hadn't diverted shield power to the weapons, the bug ship would have impacted on the shields and the Odyssey may have survived.

On a rethink, her engines are overpowered but not enough to adequately power her SIF so a lower-powered system wouldn't help. So there probably are other factors at play that determine top speed and stress...

Several episodes also claim Defiant had the energy signature of much larger ships, so I suppose the question is what the heck takes up so much of her energy output that she can't spare enough to the SIF to run flat out without shaking to pieces?

Is it simply a split between warp drive/everything else? Or maybe how the power systems are configured?

We also know that her engines have so much output that her cloak doesn't actually adequately hide her. Does that come from the fact that the cloak is too small? Or that the available power that can be shunted from the warp engines to other systems is somehow restricted?

At first, I wanted to reply with what I said earlier, that the ship's hull has such a bad warp field geometry that she has to pump all energy there is into the SIF to hold her together. And that still may be a possibility.
But, if I remember correctly, everytime the energy signature was a problem, they were not flying with warp speed but even standing still. Hmm ...

Maybe the warp core itself is the problem, in that with its four matter/antimatter feed lines it puts out an extraordinary amount of energy only to stay activated.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

Another possibility is that Defiant's warp core comfortably exceeds the output of the Romulan ships designed to operate under the particular model of cloak they were given. Which either means the Romulans gave them a really crappy cloak, or the Federation lied through their teeth when describing Defiant's capabilities.

 

[Egger]

Yeah. It could then be, as I said, the "idle" power output that is already to high. Or the ships systems need too much energy even when the ship does nothing, so that the warp core always must output that much power.

 

[blssdwlf]

In "Valiant" the Defiant class warp core is described as being a "Class 7" drive. Theoderich Patterson describes Voyager's warp drive system as being a "Class 9" in "Relativity" and being the first to be tested in deep space. I wonder what that actually means.

In "Breads and Circuses" the SS Beagle had a Class 4 stardrive. Not much to go on other than an increasing class number?

Does the output of a warp drive system increase geometrically? (That was my assumption in the Class 5/Class 6 core distinctions in the Miranda configs). Or does the "class" refer to something other than output?

Is there anything that can connect the dots? If it's a power measurement then Voyager's Class 9 drive would likely be greater than a Galaxy-class but I suspect it is not. Defiant's Class 7 is lower than Voyager's Class 9 but have we seen how an Intrepid-class would do against DS9 Klingons or Jem'hedar ships?

 

[Nob Akimoto]

We never really see a comparative basis from which to judge the various "class" designations for warp drives. We do know that the Intrepid class Bellerophon was used by Admiral Ross as his flagship, but that doesn't really tell us whether it was more capable than Defiant or if it was a combination of factors that made him use it like speed or computer systems.

So the class designations seem to give us a bit of a loss when thinking about them.

 

[Praetor]

Thanks for explaining your views on how TNG-tech would be applied to the older ball-turret phasers; after thinking it through some more, I do think this is the best explanation for what we've seen.

The notion of phaser banks vs. phaser emitters is a problematic one. Here's a crazy idea: what if there's something special about phaser power? What if the energy that powers the phasers is drawn off the main power grid, and then converted and stored in the ship's actual phaser banks, which are basically phaser "batteries" (in the electrical sense.) The energy has to be pre-phased or something to charge the phaser banks, but can be de-phased and re-routed back into the main power systems in a pinch. Then, the energy is phased again as it is passed through the emitters. As crazy as it sounds, this might solve a few of the problems we've seen. It might even explain those phaser power cells from DS9.

Perhaps the difference with the "fed off the warp drive" phasers from TMP was that energy was converted on-the-fly for phaser use, possibly in an attempt to not "waste" energy sitting in storage batteries. It makes me wonder if all ball-and-turret phasers worked this way, or if it was just a dubious flirtation on the refit, not carried over to other ships.

Slight tangent, what do you make of the "megaphasers" on the Miranda? I had contemplated at one point making the things on the Excelsior's interhull the same thing, especially considering how close they are to the intermix chamber.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

By TWoK they're able to power phasers with auxiliary power, so I'd imagine that direct fed phasers was a brief flirtation. I went with rechargeable power cells in each emplacement because I thought that might let them work with reserve power, but I'm not sure what I think.

The assumption that underlies all of the phaser explanation is that phaser power is actually somewhat special. It takes the special prefire chambers to convert whatever power source's energy into rapid nadions and then fire them. Hence having a big number of chambers is useful.

As for "megaphasers" I've always been a bit dubious on their existence. Reliant's phasers didn't seem all that "mega" to me when firing on Enterprise (in fact, Enterprise's main phasers seemed more powerful) so I'm not really sure if they're as powerful as people suggest. One idea is that they might actually be fed directly from warp reactors or even the impulse engines, so have a different power structure than the primary hull phasers, making them more effective in that regard. Either way, I think it's safe to discard them as being substantially more powerful than a typical phaser emplacement.

Now, I toss that completely out the window by making the 24th century versions of Miranda fit those emplacements with Defiant style pulse phasers (which seems to me, to be a pretty reasonable assumption).

For Lakota my assumption would have been that the phaser "arrays" underneath her saucer were surreptitiously upgraded from the standard Type VIIIs to either Type IX's or Type X prefire chambers, allowing them to have a higher overall output compared to a standard Excelsior.

 

[Egger]

Recently, I tried to find an explanation for the phaser bank issue.
My thinking so far is that there are two energy distribution networks in the ship. A low-power network for simple stuff like computer consoles, doors, light and so on, and a high-power network for phasers, shield generators, the computer core and the like.
Both networks would not transport highly energetic plasma (warp plasma) but only relatively low-powered plasma, because it's only a transport medium for electricity and it wouldn't be safe enough to circulate warp plasma through the whole ship.

In TOS, the phaser banks would siphon some plasma off the high power network and use the electical energy (also taken from the network, not the plasma siphoned off of it) to charge the plasma to a warp plasma level. This is then fired through the phaser emitter crystals and part of the plasma particles are converted to nadions (the plasma charges the crystal and starts some kind of exotic reaction in it which then gives off the nadions or modifies the plasma around it).

By TMP, the plasma conduits are then safe enough to carry highly energetic warp plasma through the ships high-power network (which also still carries electricity), enabling the phasers to directly fire this plasma without the need to charge it anymore.

And by TWOK, they added the charging function back to the phasers as a backup, if warp power fails.

 

[blssdwlf]

About Reliant's rollbar phasers... I think they were just standard ones since the model shows regular ball turret phasers on the rollbar. YMMV.

Just to add more about how phasers work (at least on the Defiant) in "Starship Down":

STEVENS: The phasers are out of the question. The emitters are completely fused.
MUNIZ: But the phaser generator's working fine.
STEVENS: The deflector array.
MUNIZ: With a few modifications, we could use it as a phaser emitter.
STEVENS: It might not be what you had in mind, sir.
MUNIZ: And there is one problem. It will overload after the first shot.
WORF: I only need one shot. How long will it take you to make the modifications?
MUNIZ: Twenty minutes?
STEVENS: Ten if we can bypass the safeties.
WORF: Proceed.
STEVENS: I think we should route the generator output through the secondary power grid.
MUNIZ: We'll have to recalibrate the ODN manifold.
STEVENS: That'll overload the whole system. What a mess.
MUNIZ: We'll worry about that tomorrow.

​

In "For the Uniform" the crew called out "phaser banks 1 and 2".

And in "Defiant" we find out they're also running the phaser power directly off the (presumably warp) plasma conduit of the ship.

RIKER: Running the plasma conduit through the primary phaser coupling has almost doubled your phaser power. Doesn't that cut into your warp drive efficiency?

​

So taking a stab at the power flow on the Defiant:

Warp Core > Warp Plasma Conduit > Primary Phaser Power Coupling > Phaser Generator > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

For the TOS Enterprise:

Warp Power + Aux Power + Any Power > Energizers > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

TMP Enterprise:

Warp Power > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

TWOK Enterprise:

Warp Power + Aux Power + Any Power > Energizers > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

TNG Enterprise-D:

Warp Power + Aux Power + Any Power > EPS > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

Or something like that

 

[Egger]

You know what's interesting? Both the Defiant and the TMP Enterprise had their phasers fed directly by the warp core, and both (+ the Reliant, maybe all TMP era ships) had pulse phasers (or "pulse-ish" in the case of the TMP ships).
Although we didn't see the Enterprise fire her phasers in TMP and by TWOK they were different again. But as I said, maybe the charging function was added again as a backup.

EDIT: Or, the TMP phasers were an experiment to increase their power output that didn't work well (maybe because it was still too dangerous to have high energy warp plasma circulate though the whole ship), so by TWOK, the ships were outfitted with the old TOS energy distribution network again and the "pulse phasers" were developed, which utilized the old TOS charging mechanism again but were stronger because the pulsed discharge dealt additional explosive damage to the target.
By DS9 then, on the Defiant, the direct warp energy supply to the phasers worked and was also combined with the stronger pulse phasers.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

Next section.

Allied and Rival State Ship Procurement Policy
The Klingon Empire
The Klingon Empire and its interstellar arm, the Klingon Defense Force, utilize a unique procurement model that takes advantage of the Empire's quasi-feudal structure. Where the Federation Starfleet orders hulls from various shipyards then fits them with mission payload, the Klingon Defense Force acquires starships as contributions from the noble houses of the Klingon Empire. The annual personnel, ship, and resource levies provided by the Great Houses are the most prominent measure of their influence within Klingon society. Reserve procurement consists of House militias, each operating starships reflecting the priorities and capabilities of the house in question.

Well aware of the Great House tendency to overbuild or scale up hull designs, the Klingon Science Institute at Ty'gkor will typically start a hull configuration at roughly three or four times the length of the final design. Once a given hull design and warp geometry is confirmed to work at larger dimensions, the KSI then produces a baseline vessel scaled down to the specs requested by KDF High Command. Baseline prototypes are evaluated and if approved the schematics of the ship class is distributed to the noble houses. Certain sensitive systems component designs are retained by the Science Institute and KDF. These typically include warp reactor design and details on nacelle coil elements. While the largest Great Houses usually have in-house engine design capability, their level of technology is anywhere from five to ten years behind that of the KDF.

Fleet strength goals are set by the Chancellor every third year subject to the approval of the High Council. Once baseline numbers are established the noble Houses are asked to contribute a certain number of hulls per size class. Each House maintains substantial autonomy in how individual ships are configured, ranging from basic dimensions to weapons load out. So long as a vessel meets performance trials in its particular classification, the ship is then accepted into KDF service with a name chosen by the House ghIntaq.

Despite this feudal levy structure, a small number of ships are built entirely by the KDF to maximize quality, commonality and performance. The Chancellor-class is an example of this process, combining the best House refinements of the basic Vor'cha spaceframe with the latest Science Institute testbed systems. The resulting battlecruiser is among the best balanced starship designs in known space. A Chancellor compares favorably with ships of other advanced stellar powers such as the Romulan Mogai and the most recent revision of the Federation Akira class.

Klingon ship designs favor modular monocoque construction. Distinct hull modules are built using high density duranium-tritanium crystalline composite alloys sandwiched with ceramic nanopolymers. Cast rodinium hull plating makes up the outermost layer of the hull and serves as both a pressure hull and armor layer. SIF-integrated trussed frames are used primarily as reinforcement to the basic structure, meaning Klingon ship designs tend to be more densely constructed and less efficient on a cubic meter volume base than comparable Starfleet designs. Due to the use of distinct modules in the frame, Klingon ships easily modified. A single ship might be configured as anything from a torpedo heavy assault ship, to a disruptor based escort, or heavy amphibious troop transport over the course of its career. The latitude given to the Great Houses manifests as substantially different internal configurations. Externally identical ships might feature completely different weapon configurations, deflector shields, cloaking devices, and transporter technology.

The KDF currently uses a battle role based classification system which stresses the importance of a ship's combat mission over its overall payload or size. Because of the wide variation in physical dimensions of ships in what are ostensibly the same design class, the classifications emphasize measurable performance metrics ranging from total primary weapons yield to shield capacity. Ships that are lacking in a given metric might be classified as an inferior support combatant.

For example, certain K'Vort-class ships built by the House of Gannik in the 2350s had a design flaw which compromised their shield geometry and effectiveness. Despite exceeding baseline specs for battlecruisers in every other metric, these ships were bought into service as B'Rel-class raiders and given appropriate identification hardware. Their greater size required more manpower and resources to maintain as raiding vessels than the KDF could afford, and these vessels were sold to private concerns. These ships were later used by Ferengi privateers in an attempted hijacking of the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) in 2370. Due to their transponder hardware the Enterprise computer systems registered them as B'Rel-class birds of prey despite the fact the ships had been upgunned well beyond even the K'Vort-class standard.

When a Great House finds a configuration that fits its needs, it will continue producing upgraded variants of existing ship designs despite the availability of more modern hull configurations. Smaller Houses in particular maintain production of older hull frames due to their reluctance (or inability) to discard large investments in industrial fabricators and drydocks. As a result KDF fleet composition eventually tends to coalesce around a small number of highly successful multigenerational ship designs. Examples of this phenomenon include the various Bird of Prey models, the D7/K'tinga family of cruisers, the Vor'cha and Qang type cruisers, and the Negh'var family of battleships.

KDF Ship Classifications

• Battleship - Heavy line combatant with main weapons battery and deflector shield system of class XII output or higher. Minimum troop complement of 3,000. e.g. Negh'var, Sword of Kahless
• Battlecruiser - Heavy line combatant with main weapons battery of class XII output or higher and deflecter shield output of class X or higher. Minimum troop complement of 1,500. e.g. Chancellor-class.
• Attack Cruiser - Line combatant with main weapons battery and deflector shield system of class X output or higher. Minimum troop complement of 1,000. e.g. Vor'cha-class.
• Strike Cruiser - Support combatant with main weapons battery and deflector shield system of class VII output or higher. Minimum troop complement of 250. e.g. K'Tinga (2370 configuration), Karas-class.
• Bird of Prey - Light combatant with class V weapons and deflector shield capabilities. e.g. B'Rel-class.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

So question. Where are some potentially other good places to post this stuff?

 

[Nob Akimoto]

You know what's interesting? Both the Defiant and the TMP Enterprise had their phasers fed directly by the warp core, and both (+ the Reliant, maybe all TMP era ships) had pulse phasers (or "pulse-ish" in the case of the TMP ships).
Although we didn't see the Enterprise fire her phasers in TMP and by TWOK they were different again. But as I said, maybe the charging function was added again as a backup.

EDIT: Or, the TMP phasers were an experiment to increase their power output that didn't work well (maybe because it was still too dangerous to have high energy warp plasma circulate though the whole ship), so by TWOK, the ships were outfitted with the old TOS energy distribution network again and the "pulse phasers" were developed, which utilized the old TOS charging mechanism again but were stronger because the pulsed discharge dealt additional explosive damage to the target.
By DS9 then, on the Defiant, the direct warp energy supply to the phasers worked and was also combined with the stronger pulse phasers.

I think the TMP phaser experiment failing is a pretty good one. As for "pulse"-ish phasers as in burst fire weapons rather than continual beams, I'm not so sure on this one. Yes, we see phasers being able to do weird things like "proximity" bursts in TOS, along with the pew pew pew phasers in TWOK, but do we really see much phaser use after that? It seems like the primary weapons used in movie ships turns into torpedoes afterwards.

For the Defiant phasers, I think the assumption is more that they're meant to be difficult to shrug off with shield modulation. We saw in "Q, Who" that the array phasers could eat HUGE chunks (like 3-4 GCS worth of material) out of the Borg Cube, but once the Borg adapted the phasers didn't do much. So I'd imagine the priority for Starfleet would be phasers that can punch through (in whatever way) of Borg shielding. Like in FC, Defiant's phasers don't do a lot of damage, but they seem to consistently be punching through the cube's shields.

 

[Unicron]

Thanks for explaining your views on how TNG-tech would be applied to the older ball-turret phasers; after thinking it through some more, I do think this is the best explanation for what we've seen.

The notion of phaser banks vs. phaser emitters is a problematic one. Here's a crazy idea: what if there's something special about phaser power? What if the energy that powers the phasers is drawn off the main power grid, and then converted and stored in the ship's actual phaser banks, which are basically phaser "batteries" (in the electrical sense.) The energy has to be pre-phased or something to charge the phaser banks, but can be de-phased and re-routed back into the main power systems in a pinch. Then, the energy is phased again as it is passed through the emitters. As crazy as it sounds, this might solve a few of the problems we've seen. It might even explain those phaser power cells from DS9.

The DS9 TM's section on the Defiant actually describes the pulse phasers operating a principle kind of like this - they're designed to let the charge build up for a few seconds in the emitter chamber before being released, resulted in the pulsed effect compared to a standard beam. This creates more raw damage on impact, but at the cost of a shorter effective range because the pulse disperses quicker than a beam does.

Slight tangent, what do you make of the "megaphasers" on the Miranda? I had contemplated at one point making the things on the Excelsior's interhull the same thing, especially considering how close they are to the intermix chamber.

Going from the two main sources I know of for designs mounting megaphasers (Mastercom and Jackill), my general impression is that they're a heavier model of phaser than the bank-mounted units and are often employed either to give heavier punch in place of torpedoes (as on Mastercom's Daran class fast frigates) or to supplement conventional weapons for tactical purposes (as on Jackill's Hellion class heavy destroyers).

 

[Praetor]

Fine work on the Klingon summary, Nob. I enjoyed that you explained the name oddities from "Rascals" with a bit of gymnastics. A tad contorty, but not too bad. I generally agree with the assumptions and assertions you've made about the Klingons, and the idea of the ships being designed at a large scale and then scaled down as needed helps make me not completely barf at the upscaled birds-of-prey.

So taking a stab at the power flow on the Defiant:

Warp Core > Warp Plasma Conduit > Primary Phaser Power Coupling > Phaser Generator > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

For the TOS Enterprise:

Warp Power + Aux Power + Any Power > Energizers > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

TMP Enterprise:

Warp Power > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

TWOK Enterprise:

Warp Power + Aux Power + Any Power > Energizers > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

TNG Enterprise-D:

Warp Power + Aux Power + Any Power > EPS > Phaser Bank(s) > Phaser Emitter(s)

Or something like that

I like it!

So question. Where are some potentially other good places to post this stuff?

Good question. I'd kind of like to post some of my Excelsior stuff for more feedback, too.

I think the TMP phaser experiment failing is a pretty good one. As for "pulse"-ish phasers as in burst fire weapons rather than continual beams, I'm not so sure on this one. Yes, we see phasers being able to do weird things like "proximity" bursts in TOS, along with the pew pew pew phasers in TWOK, but do we really see much phaser use after that? It seems like the primary weapons used in movie ships turns into torpedoes afterwards.

For the Defiant phasers, I think the assumption is more that they're meant to be difficult to shrug off with shield modulation. We saw in "Q, Who" that the array phasers could eat HUGE chunks (like 3-4 GCS worth of material) out of the Borg Cube, but once the Borg adapted the phasers didn't do much. So I'd imagine the priority for Starfleet would be phasers that can punch through (in whatever way) of Borg shielding. Like in FC, Defiant's phasers don't do a lot of damage, but they seem to consistently be punching through the cube's shields.

Generally agreed.

The DS9 TM's section on the Defiant actually describes the pulse phasers operating a principle kind of like this - they're designed to let the charge build up for a few seconds in the emitter chamber before being released, resulted in the pulsed effect compared to a standard beam. This creates more raw damage on impact, but at the cost of a shorter effective range because the pulse disperses quicker than a beam does.

Huh. I need to go re-read that.

Slight tangent, what do you make of the "megaphasers" on the Miranda? I had contemplated at one point making the things on the Excelsior's interhull the same thing, especially considering how close they are to the intermix chamber.

Going from the two main sources I know of for designs mounting megaphasers (Mastercom and Jackill), my general impression is that they're a heavier model of phaser than the bank-mounted units and are often employed either to give heavier punch in place of torpedoes (as on Mastercom's Daran class fast frigates) or to supplement conventional weapons for tactical purposes (as on Jackill's Hellion class heavy destroyers).[/QUOTE]

Your point about heavier model phasers in place of torpedo makes me think again of the TOS "proximity" phasers and of the supposed energetic non-physical nature of torpedoes during TOS. I'm not sure I believe in the latter, but it does kind ofeel like the former might be related to pulse phasers.

 

[Saturn0660]

The notion of phaser banks vs. phaser emitters is a problematic one. Here's a crazy idea: what if there's something special about phaser power? What if the energy that powers the phasers is drawn off the main power grid, and then converted and stored in the ship's actual phaser banks, which are basically phaser "batteries" (in the electrical sense.) The energy has to be pre-phased or something to charge the phaser banks, but can be de-phased and re-routed back into the main power systems in a pinch. Then, the energy is phased again as it is passed through the emitters. As crazy as it sounds, this might solve a few of the problems we've seen. It might even explain those phaser power cells from DS9.

I'd go with that. In fact if i remember right. In TWOK there is even a scene when they goto "yellow" alert they are playing with controls and such. and one of them even says "warp power trans"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LaVIIoRKBlk#t=133
2:12 in.
I could only guess that it's going into some kind of capacitor. I would also guess it was charged enough that Scotty was able it get a discharge only using the batteries.

 

[Workbee]

You know what's interesting? Both the Defiant and the TMP Enterprise had their phasers fed directly by the warp core, and both (+ the Reliant, maybe all TMP era ships) had pulse phasers (or "pulse-ish" in the case of the TMP ships).
Although we didn't see the Enterprise fire her phasers in TMP and by TWOK they were different again. But as I said, maybe the charging function was added again as a backup.

EDIT: Or, the TMP phasers were an experiment to increase their power output that didn't work well (maybe because it was still too dangerous to have high energy warp plasma circulate though the whole ship), so by TWOK, the ships were outfitted with the old TOS energy distribution network again and the "pulse phasers" were developed, which utilized the old TOS charging mechanism again but were stronger because the pulsed discharge dealt additional explosive damage to the target.
By DS9 then, on the Defiant, the direct warp energy supply to the phasers worked and was also combined with the stronger pulse phasers.

I think the TMP phaser experiment failing is a pretty good one. As for "pulse"-ish phasers as in burst fire weapons rather than continual beams, I'm not so sure on this one. Yes, we see phasers being able to do weird things like "proximity" bursts in TOS, along with the pew pew pew phasers in TWOK, but do we really see much phaser use after that? It seems like the primary weapons used in movie ships turns into torpedoes afterwards.

For the Defiant phasers, I think the assumption is more that they're meant to be difficult to shrug off with shield modulation. We saw in "Q, Who" that the array phasers could eat HUGE chunks (like 3-4 GCS worth of material) out of the Borg Cube, but once the Borg adapted the phasers didn't do much. So I'd imagine the priority for Starfleet would be phasers that can punch through (in whatever way) of Borg shielding. Like in FC, Defiant's phasers don't do a lot of damage, but they seem to consistently be punching through the cube's shields.

Actually, there is evidence that in TWOK, phasers are still channeled through the warp engines. After Kirk uses the prefix code to retaliate on Reliant, we have this exchange:

Khan: Why can't you [fire]?

Joachim: Because they damaged the photon control and the warp drive.

Photon control -- I get that that means torpedoes won't work. But based on this report, Reliant's phasers should still work unless they are somehow linked to the warp drive. Like how Enterprise's were in TMP.

 

[Praetor]

I'd be inclined to agree with you there - Joachim was basically saying "We can't fire photons because of x, and we can't fire phasers because of y. The only option is retreat."

Going back a post,

The notion of phaser banks vs. phaser emitters is a problematic one. Here's a crazy idea: what if there's something special about phaser power? What if the energy that powers the phasers is drawn off the main power grid, and then converted and stored in the ship's actual phaser banks, which are basically phaser "batteries" (in the electrical sense.) The energy has to be pre-phased or something to charge the phaser banks, but can be de-phased and re-routed back into the main power systems in a pinch. Then, the energy is phased again as it is passed through the emitters. As crazy as it sounds, this might solve a few of the problems we've seen. It might even explain those phaser power cells from DS9.

I'd go with that. In fact if i remember right. In TWOK there is even a scene when they goto "yellow" alert they are playing with controls and such. and one of them even says "warp power trans"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LaVIIoRKBlk#t=133
2:12 in.
I could only guess that it's going into some kind of capacitor. I would also guess it was charged enough that Scotty was able it get a discharge only using the batteries.

Great find there. Interesting how "warp pwr" and the other "ready" indicator are on separate lines. It's almost like the capacitor element's readiness is indicated by the green light and the power flow isn't turned on until the phasers are armed.

 

[Saturn0660]

I'd be inclined to agree with you there - Joachim was basically saying "We can't fire photons because of x, and we can't fire phasers because of y. The only option is retreat."

Going back a post,

The notion of phaser banks vs. phaser emitters is a problematic one. Here's a crazy idea: what if there's something special about phaser power? What if the energy that powers the phasers is drawn off the main power grid, and then converted and stored in the ship's actual phaser banks, which are basically phaser "batteries" (in the electrical sense.) The energy has to be pre-phased or something to charge the phaser banks, but can be de-phased and re-routed back into the main power systems in a pinch. Then, the energy is phased again as it is passed through the emitters. As crazy as it sounds, this might solve a few of the problems we've seen. It might even explain those phaser power cells from DS9.

I'd go with that. In fact if i remember right. In TWOK there is even a scene when they goto "yellow" alert they are playing with controls and such. and one of them even says "warp power trans"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LaVIIoRKBlk#t=133
2:12 in.
I could only guess that it's going into some kind of capacitor. I would also guess it was charged enough that Scotty was able it get a discharge only using the batteries.

Great find there. Interesting how "warp pwr" and the other "ready" indicator are on separate lines. It's almost like the capacitor element's readiness is indicated by the green light and the power flow isn't turned on until the phasers are armed.

Indeed, i'll even on one farther.

I'd like say thats the reason Reliant couldn't fire. Damage to the warp drive. AKA the Phaser Cap was no longer getting it's charge.
They didn't have a resourceful Scotty on board who was able to do whatever it took to get those quick shots out. Likely totally draining the cap in the process.

 

[Egger]

Yeah, and for the Enterprise I'd say they didn't have the opportunity to charge their phasers with warp power before Khan disabled their energizers, then Scotty made it possible to slowly (and it did take a while if I remember correctly) charge the phasers with battery power for a few low-powered shots.