Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

[thumbtack]

saves bad PR from headlines saying "Orci tells fans to fuck off for not liking his work".

I think it was Forbes that had claimed the incident boosted blu-ray sales, once again proving the old adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

I'm sure it helped that the public still have a hostile attitude toward trekkies. They had even recommended that Paramount return to promoting nuTrek as "not your father's Star Trek" and called it a mistake to have promoted Into Darkness as "suitable for trekkies".

 

[Timewalker]

And you can praise the product without personally trashing the people who disagree with you.

The only people who I see get trashed aren't those who dislike the movies, it's those who dislike the movie and scream to the top of their proverbial lungs that "it isn't Star Trek!" and "oh my God, Star Trek would never do that!" Even though those statements have been proven false over and over and over and over.

First you say that people who dislike the movies are not trashed, and then you say they are. Which is it?

Or are you of the mindset that thinks that people who don't like the same things you do should just shut up?

 

[Harbinger]

saves bad PR from headlines saying "Orci tells fans to fuck off for not liking his work".

I think it was Forbes that had claimed the incident boosted blu-ray sales, once again proving the old adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

I'm sure it helped that the public still have a hostile attitude toward trekkies. They had even recommended that Paramount return to promoting nuTrek as "not your father's Star Trek" and called it a mistake to have promoted Into Darkness as "suitable for trekkies".

I remember the line "not your father's Star Trek" by Abrams but never knew of the "suitable for Trekkies" promo. Maybe they should have just said "May not be suitable for all Trekkies." Ha.

 

[BillJ]

Or are you of the mindset that thinks that people who don't like the same things you do should just shut up?

I'm of the opinion that I would rather spend my time on things that I enjoy as opposed to constantly belly-aching for years about things I don't.

YMMV

 

[M'Sharak]

And you can praise the product without personally trashing the people who disagree with you.

The only people who I see get trashed aren't those who dislike the movies, it's those who dislike the movie and scream to the top of their proverbial lungs that "it isn't Star Trek!" and "oh my God, Star Trek would never do that!" Even though those statements have been proven false over and over and over and over.

First you say that people who dislike the movies are not trashed, and then you say they are. Which is it?

Or are you of the mindset that thinks that people who don't like the same things you do should just shut up?

This, to me, looks a little too much like trying to pick a fight. It is not likely to be a productive tangent, it is not a discussion relating directly to the movie, and I would like to see both of you drop it.

Now.

In this forum, people may express any opinions they like... concerning the movie. If anything is to be trashed, it ought properly to be the opinion, and not the one who's offering it. Don't get personal.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Dude's got as much right as any of us to join the forums. By the same token, he's got the same right o snap back at people that are pissing him off. I have zero issue with what he did, cause any one of us would had likely down the same if it was two fans having a going at each other.

But he isn't just a fan. He works on the production. Fairly or not - and it isn't fair, it's really not - that puts him in a position where what he does can negatively affect PR. "Snappjng back" is perfectly acceptable if you're just a fan. If you're a professional reacting to fans, however, you have to act like a professional. Yes, any one of us can and would go down the same route. However, any one of us are not high-up representatives of the production company responsible for making Star Trek at this time.

Not saying I agree with it being the case, but what he says now carries more weight than just "a fan on a forum" by virtue of him working on the product, including the snapping back.

Just cause he works on the production, doesn't mean he has to take the shit and smile. It's a mindset I've never got behind: the one that says that creators should just take the abuse with a smile and keep their mouths shut.

It's about keeping your cool, showing that you don't let a bunch of fanboys get the better of you. In his position, I might have the urge to say "fuck off", but I know it wouldn't get me anywhere so I wouldn't bother getting so worked up over it. Instead I would just say "everybody has an opinion" and move on. The only people I'd be interested in listening to are peers in the industry, especially professional writers.

 

[HaplessCrewman]

Let's not forget that Orci did apologize.

Why do some keep on insisting what he said was OK when he himself admitted it was wrong?

Didn't even his some of his fellow professionals tell him it was bad form?

 

[BillJ]

Let's not forget that Orci did apologize.

Why do some keep on insisting what he said was OK when he himself admitted it was wrong?

Did he apologize because he thought he was wrong or to shut up people who would've continued to complain about it to the end of time? (Oh how I'm praying for the end of time )

I'm guessing it was the latter.

Didn't even his some of his fellow professionals tell him it was bad form?

Nothing that I'm aware of. Though I'm still of the opinion that I want passionate people working on the franchise. I burned out of the "we're all very pleased" response whenever Berman turned out a shitty product.

 

[Opus]

Rick Berman's answer to running the Trek Franchise was a "Star Trek Paint-by-number" approach. Many of Trek's lauded episodes under Rick Berman were ones that broke away from the tired rehash of that era's storytelling and style - Intro, Conflict, Reset Button. And cue the bland horn swells. When they broke away from it, it was greatness. But most of his Trek bland, however.

 

[HaplessCrewman]

Let's not forget that Orci did apologize.

Why do some keep on insisting what he said was OK when he himself admitted it was wrong?

Did he apologize because he thought he was wrong or to shut up people who would've continued to complain about it to the end of time? (Oh how I'm praying for the end of time )

I'm guessing it was the latter.

Didn't even his some of his fellow professionals tell him it was bad form?

Nothing that I'm aware of. Though I'm still of the opinion that I want passionate people working on the franchise. I burned out of the "we're all very pleased" response whenever Berman turned out a shitty product.

Well, I know that when I apologize I only do so to shut the people up that I disagree with. I'm never sincere and just want to exacerbate the discussion until were just hurling epithets at each other.

After all, I'm justified in saying whatever I want, right?

 

[BillJ]

Well, I know that when I apologize I only do so to shut the people up that I disagree with. I'm never sincere and just want to exacerbate the discussion until were just hurling epithets at each other.

After all, I'm justified in saying whatever I want, right?

There are times to be truly sorry and times to say sorry just to move past something someone has taken offense too. I'm still betting Orci's apology was the latter and if I was in the same position I know that my apology would've been the latter.

I've yet to see anyone offer apologies to Orci and Company for being verbally abusive towards them.

I find it weird that fans of certain properties think it's okay to be abusive towards creators but are absolutely shocked when that abuse gets thrown back in their faces. It's like geek/nerd fandom has adopted many of the worst traits of sports fans.

 

[Captain Jed R.]

Well, I know that when I apologize I only do so to shut the people up that I disagree with. I'm never sincere and just want to exacerbate the discussion until were just hurling epithets at each other.

After all, I'm justified in saying whatever I want, right?

There are times to be truly sorry and times to say sorry just to move past something someone has taken offense too. I'm still betting Orci's apology was the latter and if I was in the same position I know that my apology would've been the latter.

I've yet to see anyone offer apologies to Orci and Company for being verbally abusive towards them.

I find it weird that fans of certain properties think it's okay to be abusive towards creators but are absolutely shocked when that abuse gets thrown back in their faces. It's like geek/nerd fandom has adopted many of the worst traits of sports fans.

They've always been like that and you're fooling yourself if you think it's only a recent development. The difference being back in the good old days, people had to make more effort to be nasty - now there's instant anonymity and instant ability to reply to things.

Of course, back in the good old days the people making these things would just go "pfft. Loons" to themselves and happily let the loons be loony. Now they feel the need to go on forums to read fan feedback they never take into account and get all worked up about the loons and explode at them. It really is Orci's own fault. Some people will always express themselves on these anonymous forums unpleasantly. If he wants to expose himself to that for no good reason whatsoever (seriously, why? What does he get out of it?), he really can't go off on one.

 

[BillJ]

If he wants to expose himself to that for no good reason whatsoever (seriously, why? What does he get out of it?), he really can't go off on one.

You keep saying this but haven't explained why? Do we want to go back to the "good old days" where very few get the opportunity to interact with various creators in an environment that is only right for the simplest of interaction?

I don't know Bob Orci, I've never conversed with him online or in the real world. But as a fan, he has every right to converse online with other fans and too call out fans who think Star Trek is some type of life and death struggle and that he is desecrating The World According to Gene.

I really don't care if Bob Orci tells me or someone else to go "fuck off". Life's too short.

 

[Captain Jed R.]

You keep saying this but haven't explained why? Do we want to go back to the "good old days" where very few get the opportunity to interact with various creators in an environment that is only right for the simplest of interaction?

I don't know Bob Orci, I've never conversed with him online or in the real world. But as a fan, he has every right to converse online with other fans and too call out fans who think Star Trek is some type of life and death struggle and that he is desecrating The World According to Gene.

I really don't care if Bob Orci tells me or someone else to go "fuck off". Life's too short.

Firstly. He isn't "a fan". He's a fan who works on an official product. This makes him more than just a fan, it makes him a professional individual whose actions, whether necessarily justified by others' actions or words, still nonetheless reflect on the company he works for. We live in a world where people get sacked for bad taste jokes on their Facebook, so if that's considered unprofessional - enough to sack people - then I think saying "fuck you" to "shitty little fans", whatever his justification (which as far as I can tell is just people saying - strongly perhaps but still just saying - that they don't like his work: something he should be used to anyway), is also unprofessional. He might not need sacking but it isn't something a person actively engaged in the making of a product should do. That is, of course, just my opinion.

Secondly. What is the point of "fan interaction" on forums like that one or this one? It is quite clear to me that they don't listen to fandom, or at least that they don't listen to that part of fandom. Nor should they: their work should be informed by what they want to make, as it clearly has been. As I have repeatedly said, going on these fan forums just leaves you open to making this kind of possible PR blunder, and one day he's going to say "fuck you" to a fan, that fan is going to care (whether you do or not is irrelevant: everyone's different and some people do really dislike some of the implications behind this sort of thing) and it is going to cost him his job, or at least cause a major shitstorm. Better to avoid the possibility of this in it's entirety. It won't affect his work, it will decrease his exposure to all those "shitty little fans" he doesn't like very much (and who don't like him), and it'll save a possible PR nightmare in future.

Those are the "why's". And between you and me, this entire argument is getting too circular for my liking, so I'm leaving it at that. If you still don't get my point, I can't explain it better.

 

[Harbinger]

I agree Orci shouldn't have commented in such a manner and it was unprofessional. However, as sappy as this sounds, even prosperous writers like Orci have feelings and it shows he is indeed passionate about him and his colleague's creative works. I can only imagine what it would be like to even be a semi-recognized writer and have people constantly lambasting you on the Internet. But, in everyone's best interest, they should, at the very least debate with fans in a civil, respectful way. What comes out is showing the writer is overall the better person than those making crude comments and insults.

I can say there's a singer I really like who has a Facebook. I've noticed, however, he has a short tolerance level even for people who aren't insulting. To me, that's just bad form and really says a lot about the person they are and doesn't help maintain respect for their creative aspect.

Do I blame Orci? Not really. Do I think he should have conducted himself in a much more civil manner? Absolutely. If I can do it - and I'm a nobody that has had nasty stuff thrown at me on forums before - celebrities can as well.

 

[HaplessCrewman]

I agree Orci shouldn't have commented in such a manner and it was unprofessional. However, as sappy as this sounds, even prosperous writers like Orci have feelings and it shows he is indeed passionate about him and his colleague's creative works. I can only imagine what it would be like to even be a semi-recognized writer and have people constantly lambasting you on the Internet. But, in everyone's best interest, they should, at the very least debate with fans in a civil, respectful way. What comes out is showing the writer is overall the better person than those making crude comments and insults.

I can say there's a singer I really like who has a Facebook. I've noticed, however, he has a short tolerance level even for people who aren't insulting. To me, that's just bad form and really says a lot about the person they are and doesn't help maintain respect for their creative aspect.

Do I blame Orci? Not really. Do I think he should have conducted himself in a much more civil manner? Absolutely. If I can do it - and I'm a nobody that has had nasty stuff thrown at me on forums before - celebrities can as well.

QTF.

Orci deserves mucho props for his passion and (in my opinion, wrongheaded) willingness to interact with the worst of fandom. Though those that purposely, rudely antagonized him should be ashamed, I still believe he should not have responded in kind. They don't know any better because they are a bunch of anonymous nobodies when he has/had the privilege of working on and making Trek!

 

[BillJ]

Those are the "why's". And between you and me, this entire argument is getting too circular for my liking, so I'm leaving it at that. If you still don't get my point, I can't explain it better.

I don't know... I'm... just a... country... bumpkin'... ans my... brain... werks... a little... ... ... ... ... slow...

These people, like Orci, they don't work in the financial sector or the defense industry and part of the fun of their jobs is being able to interact with those who consume their product. To be able to have discussions and get a pulse of those who are buying the product. But people who can't act like they've got a modicum of common-sense end up ruining it for the rest of us.

I can guarantee every actor, actress, writer and director who heard about the incident smiled. Orci had the balls to call "fans" on their bullshit.

I'm sorry. I applaud the man for taking a stand on the non-sense and feeding back to fandom a little taste of what they've been heaping on creators since the dawn of the internet age.

 

[Shazam!]

the main intent of the article is to blame the writers (Orci) and to point out every show Dickerson could think of where the writing was better.

No it wasn't. Here are the ONLY comments in the article directed at the writers:

A lot of critical barbs were aimed at the writers of Star Trek Into Darkness about the script and plot of the film. I won’t join in that chorus, because writing a multi-billion dollar film is something I have never had to do. The pressure must be IMMENSE, and there are many hoops that you have to jump through to produce a script for such a project.

...yet Orci still blew his lid over it : /

 

[HaplessCrewman]

Those are the "why's". And between you and me, this entire argument is getting too circular for my liking, so I'm leaving it at that. If you still don't get my point, I can't explain it better.

I don't know... I'm... just a... country... bumpkin'... ans my... brain... werks... a little... ... ... ... ... slow...

These people, like Orci, they don't work in the financial sector or the defense industry and part of the fun of their jobs is being able to interact with those who consume their product. To be able to have discussions and get a pulse of those who are buying the product. But people who can't act like they've got a modicum of common-sense end up ruining it for the rest of us.

I can guarantee every actor, actress, writer and director who heard about the incident smiled. Orci had the balls to call "fans" on their bullshit.

I'm sorry. I applaud the man for taking a stand on the non-sense and feeding back to fandom a little taste of what they've been heaping on creators since the dawn of the internet age.

 

[BillJ]

Instead of rolling your eyes, maybe you should actually take a step back and look at what fandom has become over the last twenty years.

* Writers getting death threats over changes in a comic book.

* A writer who was called a 'faggot' and other unflattering names on his Facebook wall, on his fucking birthday.

* Fans who seem to get a perverse pleasure out of the misfortune of other fans:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=6638315&postcount=39

It's pretty sad how many in fandom act now. They act like they are some type of royalty and the people who make their entertainment are the collective piss boy.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfXiIXTpE0[/yt]