Ah, thank you, Closed Caption. I'd completely forgotten about that one!
The model also hangs on the wall at Starfleet in ST III, when Kirk is talking to Admiral Morrow.
Star Trek: TMP questions and observations
- Thread starter Gotham Central
- Start date
The model also hangs on the wall at Starfleet in ST III, when Kirk is talking to Admiral Morrow.
The weird thing about that first shot is that it's hard to get a sense of what you're looking at. For years I thought that that was the view from the front not the top.
Question....
I've read that the cast hated wearing the uniforms in TMP because they were uncomfortable and hurt their backs. However, I never understood why. The uniforms actually looked quite comfortable and loose compared to other versions.
Also...is it really appropriate to call these "uniforms"? They are more like Starfleet approved clothes than uniforms. I swear it looked like no two people were wearing the same outfit and there seemed to be no protocol over who would wear what.
I also find the inclusion of the perscans an odd detail given that they are never mentioned in the movie.
On some level, TMP feels like what it technically was, the pilot of a TV series that was not picked up. It's clear that a lot of thought went into creating the details of both the characters and the technology...but most of it went uncommented on or used; as if they were expecting to come back to it in later episodes.
I've read that the cast hated wearing the uniforms in TMP because they were uncomfortable and hurt their backs. However, I never understood why. The uniforms actually looked quite comfortable and loose compared to other versions.
Also...is it really appropriate to call these "uniforms"? They are more like Starfleet approved clothes than uniforms. I swear it looked like no two people were wearing the same outfit and there seemed to be no protocol over who would wear what.
I also find the inclusion of the perscans an odd detail given that they are never mentioned in the movie.
On some level, TMP feels like what it technically was, the pilot of a TV series that was not picked up. It's clear that a lot of thought went into creating the details of both the characters and the technology...but most of it went uncommented on or used; as if they were expecting to come back to it in later episodes.
Ahh, but that's just it. If your priority is to make clothes that look comfortable on film, that's a different set of priorities than making them actually feel comfortable. So that appearance of comfort is often an illusion, like most things in film or television.
Biorythm monitors were a huge fad in the late 70s, so speculation that they'd do so much more in the 23rd century was sensible. Remember the uniforms were designed in the post-"Phase II" period, and you can bet there'd have been episodes/telemovies folowing TMP (if they'd gone in that direction) where the Perscans were used explicitly, perhaps as crucial to a plot as a tricorder, phaser, universal translator or a 24th century commbadge. (If I recall correctly, they were referenced in the LA Times Syndicate comic strip, when a Zaranite crewmember was being monitored?)
It's always been my speculation that TMP Perscans continued into the latter movies too, miniaturized into the oblong shape behind the chest insignia badge. The little "button" on one side reminds me of the Perscan button.
Would you have expected the Percans would get removed from the uniforms just because the (then-unfinished) script of TMP hadn't yet mentioned them?
Exactly. I was very surprised how many used (and unused) Epsilon 9 space station uniforms were auctioned off by It's a Wrap! a few years ago. It was almost as if part of the huge budget had been earmarked to create enough not-starship uniforms, which could be used in case a different spin-off was ever going to happen.
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Maybe I'm confused, but are you saying that the TMP uniforms seen in the film were designed for Phase II? Because that certainly isn't the case. Phase II was using modified versions of the series uniforms, it was only when it became TMP that Robert Fletcher was retained to design new costumes.
^Moreover, I think a number of ideas and concepts used for TMP would have been explained further had the films continued in the direction they were originally intended, be it as direct sequels of TMP or as a TV series. TWOK was a significant departure from TMP, so much so that Meyer has stated several times that he completely ignored the film when putting TWOK together.
Had TWOK been more like TMP in terms of style, we may have had several of the issues we're puzzling over addressed in more explicit fashion. As it stands, we're left only to speculate because of material that was never used or shown on screen.
--Sran
Had TWOK been more like TMP in terms of style, we may have had several of the issues we're puzzling over addressed in more explicit fashion. As it stands, we're left only to speculate because of material that was never used or shown on screen.
--Sran
That's my impression. The Phase II footage shown on the TMP Directors Edition DVD set has the crew wearing TOS uniforms rather than the pastel color scheme of TMP.
--Sran
I can certainly see Gotham Central's point here, though. It wasn't easy to distinguish ones' position on the ship relative to another. We knew who the characters were, of course, so it was sort of secondary, but still: Kirk at one point wore the pale blue shirt with the long sleeves, then at one point switched over to the short-sleeved white shirt with the v style neck. But Sulu also wore that style, if I remember right. Then there were the pale brown shirts which I thought Scotty wore, but I'm realizing now that he probably didn't. I don't remember who did. Spock's uniform was the only one with the dark raised collar. It did all come across as a bit of a jumble...I do wonder if it would have been confusing if they had had an entirely unfamiliar cast and crew.
It never crossed my mind until I saw one at a convention in the 80's, but the white and green Admiral uniform Kirk wore in the beginning looked fine, but I realized that someone wearing that might come across as a marching band member or something, and would look completely normal carrying a tuba!
For clarification, here are the uniforms seen in TMP:
- Kirk's admiral's uniform seen near TMP's outset.
- Decker's captain's uniform jumpsuit with rank epaulets at the shoulders.
- Kirk wearing a short-sleeved alternate uniform with captain's rank visible at shoulders; Decker and Spock are seen wearing regular duty uniforms with command rank braids at the wrists (Spock's aren't visible).
- Kirk wearing standard captain's duty uniform with appropriate rank braids; Decker and Spock remain in duty uniforms with commander's rank braids
- This is a nice shot because it features several crew at once; Kirk, Spock, and Decker are wearing the above-mentioned uniforms; McCoy is wearing a physician's white-coat with rank epaulets at the shoulders; Sulu and DeFalco are wearing beige uniforms
- My understanding is that the purple undershirt Spock wears was to prevent makeup from smearing onto his uniform top; when he first boards Enterprise, he's seen wearing it under his robe
That was the purpose, but it just looks out if place for something assumed to be designed and constructed in the 23rd century of ST.
But there are several other as well including Sulu wearing the open chest wrap around and metal star fleet pin serving a button. There were several kimono style uniforms. McCoy was totally rocking a 70s vibe with a medial uniform with the flared collar unlike anyone else. Then of course there are all the white uniforms and engineering uniforms. The Rec Deck scene might as well have been in a community village since the clothes were all over the place.
I'm having to lean towards Gotham Central once again. Witness the sheer variety...
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0542.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0542.jpg
One of the explanations offered was that several of the people in the less formal jumpsuits were actually civilians or enlisted servicemen who held no official rank or title or held only a provisional rank. McCoy's attire is easy enough to explain: physicians were often seen wearing slightly modified uniforms throughout Star Trek. McCoy wears a similar white-coat over his green turtleneck in Star Trek II.
--Sran
What's with the two guys in white uniforms wearing Galactic Empire rank insignia in place of the Starfleet emblem?
^Not sure what those mean. If I had to guess, I'd say those crew members were last-minute transfers from another ship and hadn't changed their uniforms, or the emblems were indicative of some sort of civilian or provisional crew member status. Recall that personnel serving on different ships during the TOS era (prior to TWOK) frequently wore different emblems or insignia on their uniforms. The traditional Starfleet insignia was originally worn only by Enterprise crew members. It's always been speculated that Kirk used his pull as Chief of Starfleet Operations to get the emblem adopted by the rest of the fleet.
--Sran
--Sran
Also, what's that guy in the front row center wearing, the guy who resembles Vladimir Putin's stunt double?
That's a myth. In "Court-martial," we clearly see that Starfleet officers who aren't from the Enterprise were also wearing the arrowhead insignia. Somewhere on this BBS, there is a quote of a Bob Justman memo from TOS complaining that the use of different ship insignias in "The Doomsday Machine" and "The Omega Glory" was a production error, because Roddenberry's intent had been for the arrowhead to be the emblem for all Starfleet capital ships; the Antares insignia in "Charlie X" was meant to represent the merchant marine or something of the sort.
And later evidence has been consistent with this. VGR: "Friendship One" established a sideways version of the arrowhead as the United Earth Space Probe Agency insignia in the late 21st century. ENT used a very small version of the arrowhead in its enlisted crew rating patches. And the 2009 film establishes that the Kelvin crew used the arrowhead in 2233.
This is the original post by Harvey revealing the arrowhead-emblem-debunking-memo, before someone points to the Phase II article which copied it. 
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