Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

[Indysolo]

Quick Overture corrections.

The Overture for TMP run 1:43, not 3 minutes. The 3:01 "Ilia's Theme" was recorded for the album and used as the Overture on "The Director's Edition". A long version of the Overture was recorded (running 2:50) but not used. All of these recordings can be heard on the La-La Land release which also explains the differences in the various recordings.

Neil

 

[Therin of Andor]

The Overture for TMP run 1:43, not 3 minutes.

When TMP played at the Paramount in 1979-1980, "Ilia's Theme" was piped through the foyer and corridors on a seemingly endless loop.


Paramount Theatre, Sydney - inside by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

 

[Timewalker]

Funny thing with Ilia, for all she was promoted, she was pretty thin soup as a character. In fact, her exchange with Decker in the movie is pretty much (to me anyway) no different than the Chekov/Irina exchange in The Way to Eden! I'll have to do a side-by-side comparison view of those!

Decker/Ilia have more in common with Riker/Troi. With Chekov and Irina it was a case of he was too serious, and she was an Academy dropout. Irina was a girl who got away, but hardly the love of Chekov's life.

Does the overture need to be included on home video? Is it technically part of the movie?

Yes, and yes. The overture is part of the movie. To omit it would be like omitting the overture of a musical - it just isn't done (or shouldn't be).

So they aren't WKFs to me.

You didn't get around enough.

Yeah, I'm a watch the shows and movies type fan. Though I've read quite a bit of Treklit. Never really into cons or fanclubs.

You should make the effort to read some of the behind-the-scenes books. Bjo Trimble's book is very interesting, and I found it a hoot - especially the part where she describes some of her local SCA group going to a "Save Star Trek" rally in their medieval costumes.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

The Overture for TMP run 1:43, not 3 minutes.

When TMP played at the Paramount in 1979-1980, "Ilia's Theme" was piped through the foyer and corridors on a seemingly endless loop.

Now that must've been neat!

 

[Maurice]

As to where trailers were played "in the good old days" (at least in the US) it's not exactly accurate to say that they ran after the movie, because back in the day people would buy tickets and walk into the picture pretty much at any time, even in the middle of the movie, and leave when the program got back around to the place where they came in (and Psycho was unique in that people weren't allowed to come in after the picture started). It was also common to have a double feature with trailers, newsreels, cartoons, and sometimes games (with prize wheels to select ticket numbers for glassware, as an example) between the programs, so the trailers were after one movie and before another.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Decker/Ilia have more in common with Riker/Troi.

As they should. Roddenberry intended for Riker/Troi to be the next drafts of the Decker and Ilia characters. Riker became much more of an ass than Decker was, but his character during TNG's first season matches what we know of Decker from TMP.

--Sran

 

[Psion]

The Overture for TMP run 1:43, not 3 minutes.

When TMP played at the Paramount in 1979-1980, "Ilia's Theme" was piped through the foyer and corridors on a seemingly endless loop.


Paramount Theatre, Sydney - inside by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

And in the old (United Artists?) theater in the Valley Forge Convention Center in Pennsylvania, as well. I don't know if it was looped, but I distinctly recall hearing the music playing as we were seated and before the lights dimmed.

With regards to V'Ger's cloud, I thought it was explained in the novelization that the luminescent cloud surrounding V'Ger was the result of interstellar hydrogen impacting with the alien vessel's enormous warp field. I've seen that explanation somewhere ... i assumed it was Roddenberry's book.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As to where trailers were played "in the good old days" (at least in the US) it's not exactly accurate to say that they ran after the movie...

Well, I'm in Australia, so I was speaking from my experience. Trailers trailed either the first feature or the introductory short, which is how they came to be called trailers.

By 1979, double features were religated to suburban and regional cinemas Down Under. I don't recall whether there was a short with TMP, but ST II came with "Rockinghorse Winner". Snore!

 

[Christopher]

Roddenberry intended for Riker/Troi to be the next drafts of the Decker and Ilia characters. Riker became much more of an ass than Decker was, but his character during TNG's first season matches what we know of Decker from TMP.

Indeed, a lot about TNG was recycled from Phase II and other failed Roddenberry projects. Riker and Troi were a repurposed Decker and Ilia. The Picard-Riker relationship was based on the mentor-protege relationship that the older, more seasoned Kirk was meant to have with Decker. Data was a blend of Xon (unemotional being seeking to learn about emotion and understand humanity) and the title character of The Questor Tapes (android seeking to understand his origins). The "post-atomic horror" from "Encounter at Farpoint." was a repurposing of the post-apocalyptic setting of Genesis II/Planet Earth.

 

[T'Girl]

Decker/Ilia have more in common with Riker/Troi. With Chekov and Irina it was a case of he was too serious, and she was an Academy dropout. Irina was a girl who got away, but hardly the love of Chekov's life.

I believe that Riker and Troi's relationship and separation was more like Kirk and Janice Lester's. Where the man made the decision to leave the relationship in order to pursue his career.

Decker and Ilia was more Decker made the decision to leave the relationship to avoid being "enslaved" by engaging in a sexual affair with Ilia. Decker left not for the sake of his career, but to protect himself and his independence.

Decker's motivations were very different than Riker's or Kirk's.

The Chekov and Irina situation isn't remotely similar to the others. My impression is that she left him, so that she could follow her own path. A path that didn't include Chekov.

 

[Maurice]

As to where trailers were played "in the good old days" (at least in the US) it's not exactly accurate to say that they ran after the movie...

Well, I'm in Australia, so I was speaking from my experience. Trailers trailed either the first feature or the introductory short, which is how they came to be called trailers.

By 1979, double features were religated to suburban and regional cinemas Down Under. I don't recall whether there was a short with TMP, but ST II came with "Rockinghorse Winner". Snore!

Oh, I'm not doubting that they were in Australia as you say. Some suggest the origin of the term "trailer" had more to do with how cliffhanger serials would end with trailing enticement to show up next week for the next installment, etc. Others suggest they were part of the auditorium clearing process between shows.

Link: Why are trailers called trailers?

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

The Chekov and Irina situation isn't remotely similar to the others. My impression is that she left him, so that she could follow her own path. A path that didn't include Chekov.

This is true, of course. I was speaking of not the specific circumstances of each character, but of the on-screen dynamics, i.e. "You left without saying goodbye.", "You had your world, I had mine.", etc., the idea being that a past relationship was at the time irreconcilable, and lingering feelings remained.

As I get older, I become more convinced that all relationships are basically the same. Whether a character (or real person) is devoted to church, music or motorcycles, the basic conflicts are the same in their respective conflicts.

Having been both the dump-er and the dump-ee, all I know is that my relationships went *poof*, and the end result was the same regardless of who instigated it!

With Chekov and Irina, it didn't work out. With Decker and Ilia, it didn't work out. That's really all I was driving at!

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Decker and Ilia was more Decker made the decision to leave the relationship to avoid being "enslaved" by engaging in a sexual affair with Ilia. Decker left not for the sake of his career, but to protect himself and his independence.

Which makes it all the more interesting that he would sacrifice his independence to help V'Ger at the end of TMP. Granted, we don't know how Decker's personality existed alongside Ilia and V'Ger. But it's interesting that he would leave Ilia to maintain his independence only to sacrifice it to be with Ilia. Perhaps he realized that being with her was what he wanted after all, and he was willing to leave behind his career, his ship, and his life as he had known it in order to make it happen.

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

As I recall from the novelization and the character notes in The Making of ST:TMP, the idea was that Decker was strongly drawn to the kind of unitive, spiritual experience that Deltan intimacy offered (the novel says he was drawn to the "New Human" group-consciousness movement), but wasn't ready to make that kind of commitment because of his career ambitions. So it's not like it was some ugly secret that was sprung on him and caused him to run away to "protect" himself. It's something he wanted but was afraid to embrace fully. So essentially, yes, it was almost exactly like Riker and Troi -- well, the unity wouldn't have been as deep, but Riker also pulled away from commitment because his career ambitions came first.

But by the end of TMP, Decker's career ambitions had been thwarted by Kirk, and maybe seeing Kirk's driving ambition to command made him question his own ambition. So that careerism no longer overrode his craving for something more spiritual. A merger with V'Ger offered him the kind of transcendent, consciousness-merging experience that he'd long been drawn to, as well as being his one chance to be with Ilia.

Unfortunately, most of that side of Decker's character development was cut out of the movie, so his motivations were left rather unclear.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Unfortunately, most of that side of Decker's character development was cut out of the movie, so his motivations were left rather unclear.

And I learned about it only because I read Ex Machina. The passage where Kirk describes his conversations with Decker's mother were extremely helpful in understanding his character. I liked that Kirk admitted his own assumptions about Decker were wrong, as he'd inferred that Decker had the same goals for himself that Kirk did.

--Sran

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

As I recall from the novelization and the character notes in The Making of ST:TMP, the idea was that Decker was strongly drawn to the kind of unitive, spiritual experience that Deltan intimacy offered (the novel says he was drawn to the "New Human" group-consciousness movement), but wasn't ready to make that kind of commitment because of his career ambitions. So it's not like it was some ugly secret that was sprung on him and caused him to run away to "protect" himself. It's something he wanted but was afraid to embrace fully. So essentially, yes, it was almost exactly like Riker and Troi -- well, the unity wouldn't have been as deep, but Riker also pulled away from commitment because his career ambitions came first.

But by the end of TMP, Decker's career ambitions had been thwarted by Kirk, and maybe seeing Kirk's driving ambition to command made him question his own ambition. So that careerism no longer overrode his craving for something more spiritual. A merger with V'Ger offered him the kind of transcendent, consciousness-merging experience that he'd long been drawn to, as well as being his one chance to be with Ilia.

Unfortunately, most of that side of Decker's character development was cut out of the movie, so his motivations were left rather unclear.

That's really interesting, Christopher! Those kinds of character subtleties would have been a great addition. I guess if one reads into Decker's "As much as you wanted the Enterprise...I want this!", the assumption is ripe for plucking. But it's very relateable idea, as we probably have all wanted something or other, but just couldn't have it for one reason or another, "If only circumstances were different.". Decker, luckily, realized that wish in the end.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Regarding the demotions when Kirk took command, I think they were Kirk's call, not Nogura's. Once Nogura okayed Kirk taking command, Kirk was in command, and was Decker's immediate superior in the chain of command. And what Kirk wanted was to be in command of the ship, not the mission, sitting in the center seat like the good old days. By the same token, he had McCoy drafted when the ship and the mission didn't really need McCoy...Kirk did.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Decker left not for the sake of his career, but to protect himself and his independence.

Have you read the novelization? In there, we learn that Decker's mother was part of the New Human Movement, dedicated to developing a kind of "hive mind", hence his relationship with Ilia and his ultimate destiny with V'ger were similarly-themed ventures.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

And what Kirk wanted was to be in command of the ship, not the mission, sitting in the center seat like the good old days.

But why would such a thing warrant demotions? Kirk commanded the Enterprise in both TWOK and TSFS without the grade reduction for either himself or Spock. I suppose Kirk's accepting the rank of captain rather than admiral was indicative of his desire to have the Enterprise back permanently, something McCoy suspected was afoot after witnessing the fireworks between Kirk and Decker himself.

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

By the same token, he had McCoy drafted when the ship and the mission didn't really need McCoy...Kirk did.

I submit that the mission did turn out to need McCoy, since it was McCoy who helped knock some sense into Kirk and make him realize that he was letting his ego get in the way of the good of the mission. So without McCoy there, Kirk might not have come to his senses.