Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

[Shawnster]

As much as I hate JJ-Prise, I hate the Vengeance more. It's JJ's version of an Uber ship. It's unattractive and silly to say the least. But I do like the question.

Now, I'm the opposite. I really, really, really dislike both Abrams movies and especially retch over the NuEnterprise. However, I find the Vengeance a much more pleasing design. It looks way more balanced and in proportion to itself than the NuEnterprise. I just ignore that it's monstrously retardedly huge.

We never actually see the crew of the 'E' get home after ST:FC. Perhaps it was like Back To The Future II, and they returned to a universe where Q owned a bikers casino and was sleeping with Picard's Mum. Inssurection and Nemesis must take place in The Nexus(TM).

This would explain why the previously never heard of Archer seems to have had such an important role in this NUniverse - His dad actually found something that enabled him to "invent" the warp five engine early.

USS Archer NCC 44277 was part of the battle group sent to intercept Shinzon in Nemesis. It's not that they didn't know about Archer, our heroes apparently just never cared to discuss him.

 

[The Wormhole]

Looks like something salvaged from Narada--not to mention the D-7 Archer encountered. Here is where the JJ timeline begins.

I admit, the Abramverse being the result of Narada debris ending up scattered in its past is intriguing and would certainly explain a lot. But I don't agree that Enterprise itself is a result of this changed timeline, and those two examples are purely coincidental. The Romulan drone ship was just a reused ship of the week from Voyager while it was intended to use a new Klingon design in Unexpected and indeed a ship was drawn. There just wasn't time to do up a CG mesh so they used the only one they had on file that would fit in a pre-TOS timeframe.

 

[Praetor]

Agreed. The Flashpoint explanation actually works for me too. If it's good enough for funnybooks...

 

[Mycroft Maxwell]

Yeah....like a 1913 Battleship could beat a 2013 destroyer... ANSWER: Enterprise E is wayyyy more powerful. Those "Dated" phaser beams are hellova much more powerful than the weapons on the Vengence. Those Qauntum Torpedoes would make it seem as if the Vengence's shields weren't even there. as a said a 1913 Battleship (Vengence) could not beat a 2013 Destroyer (Enterprise E)

 

[Shawnster]

Just for comparison. No time to look up destructive yields

1913 US Battleship. Pennsylvania Class
Armament:

• As built:
• 12 × 14 inch/45 caliber guns (356 mm) (4×3)
• 22 × 5 inch/51 caliber guns (127 mm) (22×1)
• (reduced to 14 x 5 inch/51 caliber guns (127 mm) in 1920)
• 2 x 3 inch/50 caliber AA guns (76 mm) (2x1) (increased to 8 guns in 1920)
• 2 × 21 inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes
• After 1929-31 refit:
• 12 × 14 inch/45 caliber guns (356 mm) (4×3)
• 12 × 5 inch/51 caliber guns (127 mm) (12x1) (reduced to 10 guns in 1940)
• 8 × 5 inch/25 caliber guns (127 mm) (8x1) (increased to 12 guns in 1940)
• torpedo tubes removed
• 8 x 1.1 inch (28 mm) AA guns (2x4) added 1940

2013 US Destroyer, Zumwalt Class


Armament: 20 × MK 57 VLS modules, with 4 vertical launch cells in each module, 80 cells total. Each cell can hold one or more missiles, depending on the size of the missiles.
Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM)
Tactical Tomahawk Vertical Launch Anti-Submarine Rocket (ASROC)
2 × 155 mm Advanced Gun System
920 × 155 mm total; 600 in automated store + Auxiliary store room with up to 320 rounds (non-automatic) as of April 2005
70-100 LRLAP rounds planned as of 2005 of total
2 × Mk 110 57 mm gun (CIWS)

 

[Mycroft Maxwell]

Thanks dude!!!Actually helps my point. the Penn. Class is loaded down with artilary to pack a punch. The Zumwalt however would annihilate that battleship before it could even get into firing range.

 

[Sci]

The E should theoretically win, if technological patterns are consistent.

Bold added.

This is the key. We have no idea if technological patterns are consistent, or if Abramsverse tech got a jump-start due to timeline contamination. We have no data one way or the other, so both scenarios -- that Abramsverse weapons of the 23rd Century are comparable to those of the Prime 23rd Century, or that Abramsverse weapons of the 23rd Century are equal to or more advanced than those of the Prime 24th Century -- are plausible.

 

[publiusr]

Now the Iowa class (Vengeance) would smoke a modern Aegis class ship--if it got close enough.

Galaxy was a ship of exploration, and it got replaced by Ent-E due to the Borg threat..but Ent-E is still a good well rounded starship. Vengeance isn't--it is a flying weapons battery.

Also, some of Scotty's transwarp beaming ideas may have gotten back to Khan, who may have been Section 31's version of Neil Turok at Perimeter Institute.

Hard to say.

 

[Sci]

Galaxy was a ship of exploration, and it got replaced by Ent-E due to the Borg threat..but Ent-E is still a good well rounded starship. Vengeance isn't--it is a flying weapons battery.

I see no reason to think the Galaxy class was "replaced" by the Sovereign class -- especially since we see numerous Galaxy-class starships participating in key engagements throughout the Dominion War, yet we've only ever seen a single Sovereign-class starship in the Enterprise-E.

 

[Praetor]

I agree. The Sovereign class ship was probably just deemed a good choice to be the new Enterprise, but there's no reason to think the class was being replaced. If the TNG TM is to be believed, then the Galaxy class was designed for a one hundred year lifespan.

 

[Mycroft Maxwell]

YEah, the Galaxy class was still very new when the Sovereign class went into service. The Galaxy class is heavily armed. I remember there was always people in the show making a big deal in Ds9 especially when something had more fire power than a galaxy class starship.

The Phaser Arrays on 24th century vessels take from a single power source unlike the weapons in the 23rd century that used phaser BANKS. Each beam in the 24th cenutry has several times more power pouring through them than the dual beams of 23rd century vessels. (However it would seem they went back to some sort of seperate power cells for the pulse phaser turrets of the Defiant).

 

[Shawnster]

YEah, the Galaxy class was still very new when the Sovereign class went into service.

Galaxy Class introduction prior to but close to Stardate 41153.7
Sovereign Class USS Enterprise-E launched Stardate 49827.5

1,000 stardate units generally accepted as 1 year makes the Galaxy class roughly 8 years old before Sovereign Class launched.

 

[Mycroft Maxwell]

Which is relatively new. 8 years for a ship designed for 100?

 

[Sci]

YEah, the Galaxy class was still very new when the Sovereign class went into service.

Galaxy Class introduction prior to but close to Stardate 41153.7
Sovereign Class USS Enterprise-E launched Stardate 49827.5

1,000 stardate units generally accepted as 1 year makes the Galaxy class roughly 8 years old before Sovereign Class launched.

Which is relatively new. 8 years for a ship designed for 100?

Exactly. Hell, 8 years is still very new even by the standards of a modern aircraft carrier.

 

[Viper78]

Galaxy was a ship of exploration, and it got replaced by Ent-E due to the Borg threat..but Ent-E is still a good well rounded starship. Vengeance isn't--it is a flying weapons battery.

I see no reason to think the Galaxy class was "replaced" by the Sovereign class -- especially since we see numerous Galaxy-class starships participating in key engagements throughout the Dominion War, yet we've only ever seen a single Sovereign-class starship in the Enterprise-E.

As the Galaxy replaced the Ambassador as the flagship class. I had always thought of the Sovereign Class as the successor to the Excelsior class rather than a replacement for the relatively new Galaxy Class. Can't see why the Galaxy class would need to be replaced after 8 years.

Had the Ent-D survived I'm sure it would have remained the flagship for many years.

 

[anh165]

If you observe the Vengeance on screen you can clearly see the damage it can inflict on a fully shielded federation ship with just a handful of phaser pulses

A case of having a century year old ship, firing upon another century old ship.

It did more than just fire at it, it disintegrated large chunks of the Enterprise's hull with ease while it was fully shielded.

That was just with the Vengeance's standard phasers.

 

[anh165]

The E should theoretically win, if technological patterns are consistent.

In TNG's "The Emissary" when the D had to deal with an 80-year-old Klingon K'tinga battler cruiser, the concern was never that the ship would harm the Enterprise; indeed, the shots the Klingons did score were described as causing no damage. It was never questioned that the Enterprise could handily destroy the Klingon ship, Picard simply didn't want to have to.

Given the size difference in the Abramsverse, though, one might surmise that technology is proportionally more advanced. OTOH, it might be that Starfleet could always have built such large vessels if they wanted to.

Considering the time line alteration of the destruction of vulcan, reverse engineering the data from the Narada, the difference in political direction Starfleet has taken, involving Khan in the design on ships and weapons, I will go out on a limb that the technlogical patterns will be shifted and not at all relative to what TNG fans see from the Enterprise E.

I remember the Klingon battle cruiser firing on the Enterprise D, to be fair even in its day it would not be much of a threat to the TOS Connie class unless they arrived in packs of 3 which we saw in TOS.

Its not unreasonable to believe the Vengeance could virtually one shot a D7/K'Tinga.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I would think that any vessel based on the Narada could only be as powerful and battleworthy as a non-military vessel of the 24th century. The Narada may have had features that allowed in to be used in a combat capacity, but that's not the same thing as something designed with combat in mind, even the Enterprise D.

 

[Praetor]

Well, if we accept that the Narada also made use of Borg tech, then maybe not.

Borg tech is obviously the fairy dust that explains the entire Abramsverse.

 

[R. Star]

Voyager wasn't immune to that fairy dust either.