was NX01 ever referred to as 'The' Enterprise?

[Kevman7987]

Sometimes, the lack of the article "the" before Enterprise just felt wrong. When the characters said just "Enterprise" they didn't always say it in a smooth fashion, like they were consciously having to concentrate to not say "the."

As long as their manner of speech didn't make the lack of "the" awkward and noticeable, it works fine.

 

[Christopher]

The problem is, the original show got it wrong and the later shows corrected it, but we got so used to the wrong version that the right version sounds wrong to us.

 

[MikeS]

^ Just as "To go boldly" sounds incorrect, when it's not.

 

[Christopher]

^ Just as "To go boldly" sounds incorrect, when it's not.

Actually "to boldly go" is perfectly correct as well. So-called "split" infinitives were a standard part of English usage for centuries before the prescriptivists of the 18th century made up an imaginary rule that banned them because of a nonsensical desire to pretend that English was a Romance language. Like the so-called rules against ending sentences in prepositions or using "they" as a singular pronoun, it's an arbitrary, artificial standard of "good grammar" that's actually very bad linguistics.

 

[Pavonis]

I'm surprised how attached some people are to "the". Do you all refer to yourselves as "the [your name]"? No? Why not? Then why should Enterprise - a proper noun, like your name - be different?

Because people aren't ships?

So? Do you say you're going to "the Chicago", or visiting "the London"? Those aren't people either, but they're proper nouns. Is it that hard to grasp?

 

[MikeS]

^ Just as "To go boldly" sounds incorrect, when it's not.

Actually "to boldly go" is perfectly correct as well. So-called "split" infinitives were a standard part of English usage for centuries before the prescriptivists of the 18th century made up an imaginary rule that banned them because of a nonsensical desire to pretend that English was a Romance language. Like the so-called rules against ending sentences in prepositions or using "they" as a singular pronoun, it's an arbitrary, artificial standard of "good grammar" that's actually very bad linguistics.

Very interesting. Thank-you.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I'm surprised how attached some people are to "the". Do you all refer to yourselves as "the [your name]"? No? Why not? Then why should Enterprise - a proper noun, like your name - be different?

Because people aren't ships?

So? Do you say you're going to "the Chicago", or visiting "the London"? Those aren't people either, but they're proper nouns. Is it that hard to grasp?

Is it hard for you to grasp that many will address ships differently than people?

 

[t_smitts]

I'm surprised how attached some people are to "the". Do you all refer to yourselves as "the [your name]"? No? Why not? Then why should Enterprise - a proper noun, like your name - be different?

Because people aren't ships?

So? Do you say you're going to "the Chicago", or visiting "the London"? Those aren't people either, but they're proper nouns. Is it that hard to grasp?

Actually there are some cities, towns, and locations that start with "the", i.e. The Hague.


Personally, I was fine with calling it just "Enterprise", as a simple way of distinguishing it from the other shows, just as I liked that the title didn't include the words "Star Trek" for the first two seasons.

And for the record, if you recall the movies, Reliant and Excelsior were referred to as such without the "the" just as often as they weren't.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Because people aren't ships?

So? Do you say you're going to "the Chicago", or visiting "the London"? Those aren't people either, but they're proper nouns. Is it that hard to grasp?

Actually there are some cities, towns, and locations that start with "the", i.e. The Hague.

Sounds more like a local thing.

 

[Pavonis]

Because people aren't ships?

So? Do you say you're going to "the Chicago", or visiting "the London"? Those aren't people either, but they're proper nouns. Is it that hard to grasp?

Is it hard for you to grasp that many will address ships differently than people?

It's hard for me to grasp the idea that people will randomly change the rules of language when referring to ships but not people, places, or other things. Is there something special about ships, particularly named Enterprise, that makes it hard to not say "the" when referring to it by name?

 

[t_smitts]

So? Do you say you're going to "the Chicago", or visiting "the London"? Those aren't people either, but they're proper nouns. Is it that hard to grasp?

Actually there are some cities, towns, and locations that start with "the", i.e. The Hague.

Sounds more like a local thing.

Well, on a larger scale, you have the Philippines, the Congo, the Netherlands, and... oh yeah: The United States of America.

 

[Pavonis]

Since there are odd and unnecessary exceptions, then the rule doesn't exist or is pointless?

 

[Christopher]

One more time: TOS's usage was either wrong to begin with, or an outdated usage that's no longer valid. Either way, it's not something to cling to. The correct naval practice, at least in US usage, is not to use the definite article except before "USS." It can be "the USS Enterprise," but it should not be "the Enterprise."

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Voyager was rarely if ever referred to as 'The Voyager' and if it was it was generally by the guest aliens of the week. The crew always called it 'Voyager' which I thought really personalised the Ship and made it more of a character and entity in it's own right.

 

[nightwind1]

Hello, new here, even if the writers went out of there way with the referrals to enterprise or the enterprise name when you are assigned to a posting; as in my case Fort Bragg after awhile you tend to call it Bragg. Same thing with ships IE USCGC Spencer we called it Spencer after being there a few cruises. and other names..........

Are you a fellow post-Coastie?


nightwind1
USCG 1988-1993, PO3, USCGC Sundew WLB-404

Which, by the way, we sometimes called Sundew, and sometimes caller her the Sundew.

 

[C.E. Evans]

So? Do you say you're going to "the Chicago", or visiting "the London"? Those aren't people either, but they're proper nouns. Is it that hard to grasp?

Is it hard for you to grasp that many will address ships differently than people?

It's hard for me to grasp the idea that people will randomly change the rules of language when referring to ships but not people, places, or other things.

That's life. People will do things that you don't understand or don't like.

Is there something special about ships, particularly named Enterprise, that makes it hard to not say "the" when referring to it by name?

Nope, it's just a common practice by some people and not by others. For many, it was likely something they were taught to do in grade school (the Titanic, the Arizona, the Bounty, the Minnow, etc.).

 

[Pavonis]

People do things I don't like all the time, that's true. But this isn't a case of things I don't like. It's a case of just being plain wrong. When the are just plain wrong, I correct them. Making mistakes out of "habit" or "ignorance" is one thing. Continuing to do make the same "mistake" after being shown why and how they're incorrect just shows they're being stubborn and willfully ignorant.

 

[C.E. Evans]

People do things I don't like all the time, that's true. But this isn't a case of things I don't like. It's a case of just being plain wrong.

Not to the people who prefer to place "the" before every ship name. It's not wrong to them, nor to the novelists, reporters, writers and just everyday people who continue the practice. It really does come down to it being a custom that some (or even most) people follow, but others don't. You may think it just plain wrong, but that's how people always feel about customs they don't observe or don't like.

 

[Pavonis]

Perpetuating mistakes doesn't mean they're not mistakes. Calling it a custom doesn't mean it's not a mistake. If you want to be contrary, fine, but don't expect people to stop correcting your mistakes either.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Perpetuating mistakes doesn't mean they're not mistakes. Calling it a custom doesn't mean it's not a mistake. If you want to be contrary, fine, but don't expect people to stop correcting your mistakes either.

No, it really is just a different custom, a different form of address used by most of the population. Despite what you say, it's not a mistake to them to address ships like that.

It really isn't anything to get very upset about.