Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

[F. King Daniel]

I think there was a 3rd ship that was thrown farther in time...such that it interfered with the genetics of Khan in order to make him a white guy.

Ricardo Montelban was white hispanic, and he looked it in Wrath of Khan.

Marla was wrong. He wasn't an Indian Sikh, he just had a tan - which quickly wore off on Ceti Alpha V in one life, and in the Section 31 base under London in another

 

[T'Girl]

white hispanic

Ricardo Montelban was of Mexican descent, and not "white Hispanic."

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I guess if Orci, Abrams et al were intent on super-sizing everything, Khan should have been "The Most Interesting Man in the World"^100. Cumberbatch is charming, but ...

 

[Kemaiku]

See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.

The anomaly that brought the Narada back released anti-time particles, retroactively applying the relaunch to the timeline. Everything is bigger since 2009 (even my belly)!

Which conviniently stopped in 2154 as the entire Enterprise series still exists as we saw it onscreen, backed up by the numerous references throughout both reboot films, including the NX-01, planet Menk, Admiral Archer, Porthos etc still existing.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.

The anomaly that brought the Narada back released anti-time particles, retroactively applying the relaunch to the timeline. Everything is bigger since 2009 (even my belly)!

Which conviniently stopped in 2154 as the entire Enterprise series still exists as we saw it onscreen, backed up by the numerous references throughout both reboot films, including the NX-01, planet Menk, Admiral Archer, Porthos etc still existing.

It's hard to tell. Perhapes Enterprise originally went seven season, Archer was bold, Mayweather and Reed found love, T'pol learned how to act, etc, with a ship half the size.

 

[Shawnster]

Considering that we have no way of knowing how to compare the phaser and warp technologies of the Abramsverse and the Prime Timeline, I don't think there's any reasonable way to answer the question of whether the U.S.S. Vengeance could defeat the Enterprise-E.

Hmm.. they never hit the same targets? Didn't shoot asteroids? That's what helped me realize the strengths of Star Wars ships vs. Star Trek ships. Look for common targets in both universes and see how much damage was done. Buildings? Unshielded ships and objects? Nickel-iron asteroids are the same no matter what.

I'll have to eventually watch the Abrams movies again and look for common targets such as structures, people, etc...

 

[F. King Daniel]

white hispanic

Ricardo Montelban was of Mexican descent, and not "white Hispanic."

I googled to double check - Wiki says Ricardo Montalban's parents were Spanish immigrants.

 

[Sci]

Considering that we have no way of knowing how to compare the phaser and warp technologies of the Abramsverse and the Prime Timeline, I don't think there's any reasonable way to answer the question of whether the U.S.S. Vengeance could defeat the Enterprise-E.

Hmm.. they never hit the same targets?

So far as I can recall, we only ever see Federation starships of the 2250s either firing phasers on the Narada or upon one-another (Enterprise and Vengeance). So, no, we have no idea how to compare 23rd Century Abrams Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems to 24th Century Prime Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems.

The most we can say is that the Narada, which originated from 2387 of the Prime Timeline as a mining ship, tore damn near every 2258 Abrams Timeline ship she encountered to shreds. We don't know if that's because the standard armaments available to 24th Century mining ships are just that much better than 2258 Abrams Timeline ships', or if it's because the Narada was upgraded with tech that's super-advanced even for the Narada's era.

 

[T'Girl]

white hispanic

Ricardo Montelban was of Mexican descent, and not "white Hispanic."

I googled to double check - Wiki says Ricardo Montalban's parents were Spanish immigrants.

Yes, the parents immigrate to Mexico, became Mexican citizens, Ricardo was born in Mexico City to Mexican nationals, came to America as a teen, but never became a American citizen.

The exact meaning of "white Hispanic." can be a little hard to nail down, but given Montalban's ancestry, place of birth, and family name, white Hispanic just doesn't apply.

 

[Wally]

So far as I can recall, we only ever see Federation starships of the 2250s either firing phasers on the Narada or upon one-another (Enterprise and Vengeance). So, no, we have no idea how to compare 23rd Century Abrams Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems to 24th Century Prime Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems.

The most we can say is that the Narada, which originated from 2387 of the Prime Timeline as a mining ship, tore damn near every 2258 Abrams Timeline ship she encountered to shreds. We don't know if that's because the standard armaments available to 24th Century mining ships are just that much better than 2258 Abrams Timeline ships', or if it's because the Narada was upgraded with tech that's super-advanced even for the Narada's era.

Exactly. Outside the comic book (which established the Narada had updated Borg tech on it) in the movie Nero was consistently shown as a blue collar "guy" and the Narada was just a mining ship from the future.

That mining ship steamrolled through entire entire armada without a scratch. Even though the thing was huge, it's still just a mining ship.

Meanwhile the Enterprise-E is basically a top of the line Starfleet cruiser. I think it could easily mow down the oversized spooky Vengeance from over 100 years ago.

 

[The Old Mixer]

More powerful? No. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

 

[The Wormhole]

Exactly. Outside the comic book (which established the Narada had updated Borg tech on it) in the movie Nero was consistently shown as a blue collar "guy" and the Narada was just a mining ship from the future.

That mining ship steamrolled through entire entire armada without a scratch. Even though the thing was huge, it's still just a mining ship.

The problem is that it was not Nero's time to go back in time. That happened accidentally. If he really was hate-crazed against the Federation and intended to destroy Earth and Vulcan of the 24th century, he'd have to get past the 24th century Starfleet. And to do that, he'd need something more impressive than a "simple mining ship." It stands to reason Narada as seen in the movie is upgraded from its original configuration, although it is silly of the comic to say it was enhanced with Borg tech. Even sillier when said Borg tech asserts full control over the ship so it can go to the Delta Quadrant on a spiritual quest to find V'Ger...

 

[TheSubCommander]

I have to go with the Big E!

 

[Sci]

So far as I can recall, we only ever see Federation starships of the 2250s either firing phasers on the Narada or upon one-another (Enterprise and Vengeance). So, no, we have no idea how to compare 23rd Century Abrams Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems to 24th Century Prime Timeline ships' weaponry and defense systems.

The most we can say is that the Narada, which originated from 2387 of the Prime Timeline as a mining ship, tore damn near every 2258 Abrams Timeline ship she encountered to shreds. We don't know if that's because the standard armaments available to 24th Century mining ships are just that much better than 2258 Abrams Timeline ships', or if it's because the Narada was upgraded with tech that's super-advanced even for the Narada's era.

Exactly. Outside the comic book (which established the Narada had updated Borg tech on it) in the movie Nero was consistently shown as a blue collar "guy" and the Narada was just a mining ship from the future.

That mining ship steamrolled through entire entire armada without a scratch. Even though the thing was huge, it's still just a mining ship.

Meanwhile the Enterprise-E is basically a top of the line Starfleet cruiser. I think it could easily mow down the oversized spooky Vengeance from over 100 years ago.

Except that my point is that we don't know. We don't know if the Narada's armaments were always just that good or if she was upgraded with super-advanced tech even for the 24th Century, and we don't know how 23rd Century Abramsverse tech stacks up to 24th Century Prime tech. We have no idea how they compare, so it's fruitless to speculate.

 

[Infern0]

The E would obviously win

I don't care how much extra effort they put into the Vengence, it's 100 years old, it's tech is 100 years old, yes its souped up and beefed up but that doesn't matter, The E is simply a far more advanced ship

 

[Yanks]

I'd like to think the E would kick it's ass personally, it's 100 years more advanced

 

[USS Triumphant]

Based on what I believe to be going on with the changes in the timeline, I'd say it's a toss up as to which would come out victorious. So I'll ask this question as a deciding factor: Which ship has the sombrero?

 

[anh165]

The E would obviously win

I don't care how much extra effort they put into the Vengence, it's 100 years old, it's tech is 100 years old, yes its souped up and beefed up but that doesn't matter, The E is simply a far more advanced ship

No.

If you observe the Vengeance on screen you can clearly see the damage it can inflict on a fully shielded federation ship with just a handful of phaser pulses. This is a feat that no other 24th century era ship has accomplished with exception to the Borg cube firing at an Excelsior class ship at Wolf 359.

100 Years between 23rd and 24th centuries in regards to starship combat ability may mean very little if you just evolve the same old technology.

The Enterprise E has demonstrated on screen that it relies on phaser beams and unthreatening evadable photon torpedoes that need to fired in high quantities to do any real damage, just like most starfleet vessels did 100 years back.

 

[Praetor]

The E should theoretically win, if technological patterns are consistent.

In TNG's "The Emissary" when the D had to deal with an 80-year-old Klingon K'tinga battler cruiser, the concern was never that the ship would harm the Enterprise; indeed, the shots the Klingons did score were described as causing no damage. It was never questioned that the Enterprise could handily destroy the Klingon ship, Picard simply didn't want to have to.

Given the size difference in the Abramsverse, though, one might surmise that technology is proportionally more advanced. OTOH, it might be that Starfleet could always have built such large vessels if they wanted to.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I suspect Trek Prime did have larger ships than the TOS Enterprise in that era, we just never saw them on-screen. In STIII we see see a large shape looming in the background of spacedock, one of the Planet of the Titans study models, which 80's Treknical fandom turned into the Arial-class shuttlecarrier (Heavy Cruiser Evolution Blueprints)

In the TMP-era novels of years past, we met the mile-long Defender-class (My Enemy, My Ally) with it's unique crew of elephant-sized nonhumanoids, and the 70-deck medical supership USS Recovery (Recovery)