What happened to Jennifer Lien?

[KaraBear]

we were actually talking about Beltran bashing the writers, not Lien

as far as "speaking the truth" They're all entitled to their opinion, but while they'r ON the show and receiving a paycheck for it, I think it's incredibly poor taste to bash the show

would you go on tv and say horrible things about the company you work for and expect no consequenses at work for it?

if Beltran had issues with the writing there are channels he could have gone through, like the other actors did

Ah, but Lien must have coughed in the wrong tune on a Friday morning, otherwise the sensitive writers wouldn't have lost their abilities or their interest so quickly when it comes to writing for the character Kes.

As for Beltran, I admire him for having the guts to stand up and tell the truth about the sloppy writing.

For years, he had seen and experienced how his character was shoved more and more in the background and how his suggestions for the character were totally ignored. Finally he lost his temper, something that most of us would do.

So what did he have to lose? Nothing! It wouldn't have changed anything to continue to bow for the masters. They had already decided to place Seven and The Doctor at Janeway's side as the main characters and the rest as moving images in the background (except for the one they've already fired).

Besides that, lousy employers and lousy companies needs a smack on the head in public. Maybe they will learn to treat their employees better after that.

Regarding Jennifer. I doubt it had anything to do with her. The problem was that they'd written Kes into a box. She was nice & sweet & compassionate. She had great mental powers that she was just learning to tap.

"Nice & sweet & compassionate" means no drama.

Great mental powers has been done hundreds of times on Star Trek, dating back to TOS.

As I said before, that's the creative process. Some things work, some things don't. Not every artistic project is a success.

Regarding Beltran. Just because Person X says that the writers suck or he's the most talented member of the band does not make it true.

that's exactly it, the ONLY thing interesting about Kes was her 9 year lifespan, which as we've both already said would have been great to fully explore. Though in that case I would have changed her relationship with neelix from boyfriend/girlfriend to father figure/daughter.

pointy ears, mental abilities, they've been done to death

 

[KaraBear]

The only difference between Beltran and some of us would be the money involved. Lots of people complain about their employer, some even quit.

Yep, I've gone home and called my best friend and whinged about my job. I've come close to quitting. I did quit a job when I just didn't fit in with the management style at a place.

What I have never done and will never do is trash the place in public. Unless the employer is doing something illegal, that is simply unprofessional--in any field.

ETA: And no, Beltran could not have drawn unemployment. Actors are private contractors. They don't get unemployment when a gig ends.

I was unemployed for a while and went on several job interviews. I worked with agencies to prep myself and the number one thing they always say is to NOT say anything negative about your previous employer. That's just common sense.....if you ever want to be hired by any job again

 

[KaraBear]

The only difference between Beltran and some of us would be the money involved. Lots of people complain about their employer, some even quit. But if Beltran had quit, he stood to lose a few hundred thousand dollars a year possibly, as well as a suit for breach of contract. If they had fired him instead, mission accomplished and he could draw unemployment. The only time I tried to draw unemployment, I was turned down. They said I didn't look for work hard enough when there was a foot of snow on the ground and I had no car.

yeah, I might post on facebook that I had a rough day at work, or I might complain to my husband about my boss, but would you go on the radio and trash your company especially when everyone listening knows the name of the company? would you expect to be treated well back at work after that?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Or maybe he was taking a cue from Marlon Brando, who was notorious for not memorizing his lines. He'd leave index cards hidden all around a set with his lines on them, believing that allowed a fresher delivery than memorization.

A Beltran comparison to Brando. You, sir, just accomplished the impossible.

 

[Melakon]

I try.

 

[teya]

I was unemployed for a while and went on several job interviews. I worked with agencies to prep myself and the number one thing they always say is to NOT say anything negative about your previous employer. That's just common sense.....if you ever want to be hired by any job again

Right now, there's a number of people in another department whose jobs are being eliminated by technology. Meanwhile my department is growing because of technology. So we're keeping our eyes open for intelligent, diligent, detail-oriented people we can train. Our training would provide them with job security for life and the ability to work at any healthcare institution in the country. All they'd have to do is follow-up with the required education & certification.

Well, one guy we had our eyes on decided to toss us under the bus and blame a mistake he made on us--because, you know, he is perfect and knows all and doesn't ever make mistakes.

He is in a serious panic now because they've just had a series of layoffs in his department and more are coming. He's always coming around my office & kissing ass, looking desperate.

I think he realizes that there's no chance in hell we'll hire him now. He done burned his bridge.

 

[Melakon]

The one time I got caught in a layoff, I'd had my leg injury, went back to work too soon, was in too much pain to concentrate on the work. Had my worst review in 8 years. Since I was paid by the hour and making more than a first level supervisor, my head was sticking up pretty high when they came by with the axe.

 

[KaraBear]

I was unemployed for a while and went on several job interviews. I worked with agencies to prep myself and the number one thing they always say is to NOT say anything negative about your previous employer. That's just common sense.....if you ever want to be hired by any job again

Right now, there's a number of people in another department whose jobs are being eliminated by technology. Meanwhile my department is growing because of technology. So we're keeping our eyes open for intelligent, diligent, detail-oriented people we can train. Our training would provide them with job security for life and the ability to work at any healthcare institution in the country. All they'd have to do is follow-up with the required education & certification.

Well, one guy we had our eyes on decided to toss us under the bus and blame a mistake he made on us--because, you know, he is perfect and knows all and doesn't ever make mistakes.

He is in a serious panic now because they've just had a series of layoffs in his department and more are coming. He's always coming around my office & kissing ass, looking desperate.

I think he realizes that there's no chance in hell we'll hire him now. He done burned his bridge.

Hey can I come interview for you? and my husband, his last job was outsourced out of the country


I've actually been flat out asked if there were things I didn't like about my previous job in an interview which I thought was a tricky question, like when they ask you what you're weaknesses are

 

[KaraBear]

The one time I got caught in a layoff, I'd had my leg injury, went back to work too soon, was in too much pain to concentrate on the work. Had my worst review in 8 years. Since I was paid by the hour and making more than a first level supervisor, my head was sticking up pretty high when they came by with the axe.

that sucks. I was laid off from my last job after 5 years. they called me into HR one day and said my job was moving out of state and I could go if I wanted(they weren't offering any assistance or compensation of any kind), if not I had 60 days left.

 

[Melakon]

The company I worked for didn't give us that much warning. The summer before, they had acquired another company with 5000 employees. Those people were assured of a job for the next year, so the rest of us knew we were potentially doomed. I went into work one morning at 8:30, was immediately pulled into the manager's office and given the severance package, and ordered not to talk to anyone about it on the way out. I was out the door by 9:15am. It was an across the board 15% reduction, not even managers were safe.

 

[Lynx]

we were actually talking about Beltran bashing the writers, not Lien

as far as "speaking the truth" They're all entitled to their opinion, but while they'r ON the show and receiving a paycheck for it, I think it's incredibly poor taste to bash the show

would you go on tv and say horrible things about the company you work for and expect no consequenses at work for it?

if Beltran had issues with the writing there are channels he could have gone through, like the other actors did

Ah, but Lien must have coughed in the wrong tune on a Friday morning, otherwise the sensitive writers wouldn't have lost their abilities or their interest so quickly when it comes to writing for the character Kes.

As for Beltran, I admire him for having the guts to stand up and tell the truth about the sloppy writing.

For years, he had seen and experienced how his character was shoved more and more in the background and how his suggestions for the character were totally ignored. Finally he lost his temper, something that most of us would do.

So what did he have to lose? Nothing! It wouldn't have changed anything to continue to bow for the masters. They had already decided to place Seven and The Doctor at Janeway's side as the main characters and the rest as moving images in the background (except for the one they've already fired).

Besides that, lousy employers and lousy companies needs a smack on the head in public. Maybe they will learn to treat their employees better after that.

Regarding Jennifer. I doubt it had anything to do with her. The problem was that they'd written Kes into a box. She was nice & sweet & compassionate. She had great mental powers that she was just learning to tap.

"Nice & sweet & compassionate" means no drama.

Great mental powers has been done hundreds of times on Star Trek, dating back to TOS.

As I said before, that's the creative process. Some things work, some things don't. Not every artistic project is a success.

Regarding Beltran. Just because Person X says that the writers suck or he's the most talented member of the band does not make it true.

The comment from the writers that they had written Kes into a box is not the truth. They were able to come up with good Kes stories up to the last minutes of season 3 and Jeri Taylor was able to come up with good Kes stories in both "Mosaic" and "Pathways", the last one written during season 4. It's really strange how people suddenly lose the ability to write for one character over one night.

Not to mention that Kes had more and better stories than Kim during the whole series.

As for Beltran, obviously he was right about the writers. They couldn't come up with stories for some characters and were obviously not doing their job.

As for the band I used as an example before, X was actually the "good guy" in that drama.

 

[Lynx]

The only difference between Beltran and some of us would be the money involved. Lots of people complain about their employer, some even quit. But if Beltran had quit, he stood to lose a few hundred thousand dollars a year possibly, as well as a suit for breach of contract. If they had fired him instead, mission accomplished and he could draw unemployment. The only time I tried to draw unemployment, I was turned down. They said I didn't look for work hard enough when there was a foot of snow on the ground and I had no car.

Beltran wanted to quit in season 6 but wasn't allowed to do it.

 

[KaraBear]

The company I worked for didn't give us that much warning. The summer before, they had acquired another company with 5000 employees. Those people were assured of a job for the next year, so the rest of us knew we were potentially doomed. I went into work one morning at 8:30, was immediately pulled into the manager's office and given the severance package, and ordered not to talk to anyone about it on the way out. I was out the door by 9:15am. It was an across the board 15% reduction, not even managers were safe.

ouch that sucks. Yeah I was lucky to get that much notice

I was at a long term temp assignment once when my agent called me and told me to very quietly gather my things and leave immediately, not even to finish the day but to be out of the building by noon that day. There were a total of 60 people who got that phone call, temps and people who worked there full time too

 

[KaraBear]

Ah, but Lien must have coughed in the wrong tune on a Friday morning, otherwise the sensitive writers wouldn't have lost their abilities or their interest so quickly when it comes to writing for the character Kes.

As for Beltran, I admire him for having the guts to stand up and tell the truth about the sloppy writing.

For years, he had seen and experienced how his character was shoved more and more in the background and how his suggestions for the character were totally ignored. Finally he lost his temper, something that most of us would do.

So what did he have to lose? Nothing! It wouldn't have changed anything to continue to bow for the masters. They had already decided to place Seven and The Doctor at Janeway's side as the main characters and the rest as moving images in the background (except for the one they've already fired).

Besides that, lousy employers and lousy companies needs a smack on the head in public. Maybe they will learn to treat their employees better after that.

Regarding Jennifer. I doubt it had anything to do with her. The problem was that they'd written Kes into a box. She was nice & sweet & compassionate. She had great mental powers that she was just learning to tap.

"Nice & sweet & compassionate" means no drama.

Great mental powers has been done hundreds of times on Star Trek, dating back to TOS.

As I said before, that's the creative process. Some things work, some things don't. Not every artistic project is a success.

Regarding Beltran. Just because Person X says that the writers suck or he's the most talented member of the band does not make it true.

The comment from the writers that they had written Kes into a box is not the truth. They were able to come up with good Kes stories up to the last minutes of season 3 and Jeri Taylor was able to come up with good Kes stories in both "Mosaic" and "Pathways", the last one written during season 4. It's really strange how people suddenly lose the ability to write for one character over one night.

Not to mention that Kes had more and better stories than Kim during the whole series.

As for Beltran, obviously he was right about the writers. They couldn't come up with stories for some characters and were obviously not doing their job.

As for the band I used as an example before, X was actually the "good guy" in that drama.

what you don't seem to be realizing is that it's all subjective. You think Beltran was right I think he was wrong. You think Kes had good stories, I think she didn't. It's all opinion

I think Beltran was just bitter that he wasn't the star

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Beltran wanted to quit in season 6 but wasn't allowed to do it.

I don't understand why they didn't let him quit. He was bad-mouthing them at every opportunity and his character wasn't exactly doing much or bringing anything to the series.

If they'd gotten rid of him then they'd have brought back the skant when Seven was somehow made the ship's new XO, though this one would also be ridiculously low-cut as well.

 

[KaraBear]

Beltran wanted to quit in season 6 but wasn't allowed to do it.

I don't understand why they didn't let him quit. He was bad-mouthing them at every opportunity and his character wasn't exactly doing much or bringing anything to the series.

If they'd gotten rid of him then they'd have brought back the skant when Seven was somehow made the ship's new XO, though this one would also be ridiculously low-cut as well.

if they wrote him off then Tuvok would be XO

as for not letting him go, I think it has to do with the contract

 

[teya]

The comment from the writers that they had written Kes into a box is not the truth. They were able to come up with good Kes stories up to the last minutes of season 3 and Jeri Taylor was able to come up with good Kes stories in both "Mosaic" and "Pathways", the last one written during season 4. It's really strange how people suddenly lose the ability to write for one character over one night.

Well, here's the thing. I don't agree with you that the stories were good. They were derivative of other stories told hundreds of times before. And, according to the writers, they agree with me.

Not to mention that Kes had more and better stories than Kim during the whole series.

That much is true.

As for Beltran, obviously he was right about the writers. They couldn't come up with stories for some characters and were obviously not doing their job.

Beltran's character started as a racial stereotype & only got worse. How they were supposed to magically fix it is beyond me. And apparently beyond Beltran, who is on record as saying he wasn't supposed to do what Colm Meaney did to keep O'Brien from turning into a stereotype or what Picardo did to get more to do: give the writers ideas.

Thing is, there are times that you simply have to go above and beyond your job description. Beltran chose to whine & complain & trash other people publically instead of doing that.

Being someone who worked her way up from a blue collar job by taking every opportunity thrown at me and running with it, I don't have a whole lot of respect for that.

 

[Melakon]

Even if Harry had been made the First Officer, he probably still would have been an Ensign.

 

[KaraBear]

The comment from the writers that they had written Kes into a box is not the truth. They were able to come up with good Kes stories up to the last minutes of season 3 and Jeri Taylor was able to come up with good Kes stories in both "Mosaic" and "Pathways", the last one written during season 4. It's really strange how people suddenly lose the ability to write for one character over one night.

Well, here's the thing. I don't agree with you that the stories were good. They were derivative of other stories told hundreds of times before. And, according to the writers, they agree with me.

Not to mention that Kes had more and better stories than Kim during the whole series.

That much is true.

As for Beltran, obviously he was right about the writers. They couldn't come up with stories for some characters and were obviously not doing their job.

Beltran's character started as a racial stereotype & only got worse. How they were supposed to magically fix it is beyond me. And apparently beyond Beltran, who is on record as saying he wasn't supposed to do what Colm Meaney did to keep O'Brien from turning into a stereotype or what Picardo did to get more to do: give the writers ideas.

Thing is, there are times that you simply have to go above and beyond your job description. Beltran chose to whine & complain & trash other people publically instead of doing that.

Being someone who worked her way up from a blue collar job by taking every opportunity thrown at me and running with it, I don't have a whole lot of respect for that.

That's the thing, every actor would meet with producers and discuss what they wanted out of their characters, if there were any changes they thought could be made and such. From what I heard, there are only two actors who never made time to meet and discuss their characters: Beltran, and Lien.

 

[KaraBear]

Even if Harry had been made the First Officer, he probably still would have been an Ensign.

Did Harry ever do anything to really earn a promotion? Did he ever go above and beyond?