Starship Size Argument™ thread

[WarpFactorZ]

And please, please explain to me how the bridge, atrium, shuttlebay and engine rooms are supposed to fit into a 366m ship. I asked you this before and you never replied.

Read my post immediately above this. Unlike some on this board, I have the ability to change my mind and decide that the length could be different than I previously thought. I'm willing to go to 400-450m. But 700+ is simply inane.

For those who think the ship is really 700m long, take a walk that distance so that you can see the beginning and end points. Then look at how much space that would give. Then imagine you had to run/climb that distance because the power was out and turbolifts were inoperative. etc...

 

[BillJ]

For those who think the ship is really 700m long, take a walk that distance so that you can see the beginning and end points. Then look at how much space that would give. Then imagine you had to run/climb that distance because the power was out and turbolifts were inoperative. etc...

But it's not 300-pound Trek fans who have to run/climb that distance, its physically conditioned military officers.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And please, please explain to me how the bridge, atrium, shuttlebay and engine rooms are supposed to fit into a 366m ship. I asked you this before and you never replied.

Read my post immediately above this. Unlike some on this board, I have the ability to change my mind and decide that the length could be different than I previously thought. I'm willing to go to 400-450m. But 700+ is simply inane.

Although 725m is the perfect fit for the bridge and atrium. Any smaller and the rooms overlap. Doesn't that alone preclude the ship being any smaller?

For those who think the ship is really 700m long, take a walk that distance so that you can see the beginning and end points. Then look at how much space that would give. Then imagine you had to run/climb that distance because the power was out and turbolifts were inoperative. etc...

Just over a third of the Enterprise's length is her nacelles. Kirk and Scotty ran from the atrium in the saucer centre to engineering, which is behind the huge shuttlebay. I'd guess a 400m trek, tops?

 

[drt]

That seems pretty consistent with the screencap; I think the nuEnterprise just has a lot more non-deck space above and below the two decks that go out to the rim than we're used to from previous Enterprises.

Heh, I was watching TMP earlier in the week, that Rec Deck set seems like it would fit perfectly into this Enterprise (since it's almost three decks high and doesn't have an undercut).

 

[WarpFactorZ]

That seems pretty consistent with the screencap;

No it doesn't. The windows in that diagram are essentially the height of the corridor itself (i.e. the same size as the hull breach). But they clearly are about 1/3 of the corridor height, tops, since in the intact windows we can see maybe one row of the "cells" on the wall. A bigger window would show the entire opposite wall.

King Daniel has shrunk the corridor to fit his desired ship size.

 

[drt]

The corridor heights from the screencap appear to fit the drawing.

It seems from what Gep posted there is room for three decks out to the edge, but they're offset so that it's two decks at the edge with a half-deck above and below.

 

[F. King Daniel]

That seems pretty consistent with the screencap;

No it doesn't. The windows in that diagram are essentially the height of the corridor itself (i.e. the same size as the hull breach). But they clearly are about 1/3 of the corridor height, tops, since in the intact windows we can see maybe one row of the "cells" on the wall. A bigger window would show the entire opposite wall.

King Daniel has shrunk the corridor to fit his desired ship size.

Are you sure about that?

Green lines are all the same height

 

[Gepard]

Huh. That works surprisingly well.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

[
Are you sure about that?

Green lines are all the same height

You crack me up, KDiD. The green line is the height of the corridor alone (8 ft, as I recall). There is a generous space between the decks behind the windows (your little blue line). Yet the imaginary decks you show above and below are not separated by this amount. And furthermore, the green line you show at the very bottom doesn't line up with the corridor either.

Sorry, this bit of evidence is quite strongly against the 700m ship theory.

 

[Gepard]

There are no decks above and below, just a lot of deck-size dead space. Look at the side-view cross section.

The saucer rim has two decks with a gap between them (blue line) and additional space above and below that's almost but not quite enough room to fit full decks into.

 

[F. King Daniel]

[
Are you sure about that?

Green lines are all the same height

You crack me up, KDiD. The green line is the height of the corridor alone (8 ft, as I recall). There is a generous space between the decks behind the windows (your little blue line). Yet the imaginary decks you show above and below are not separated by this amount.

Only the ones with "DECK" written on them are decks - see the diagram in the corner? And in between the ones labelled "DECK" are those between deck spaces, just like the diagram in the corner.

And furthermore, the green line you show at the very bottom doesn't line up with the corridor either.

It's not supposed to.

Sorry, this bit of evidence is quite strongly against the 700m ship theory.

I disagree. And I have diagrams to prove it.

 

[shapeshifter]

There are no decks above and below, just a lot of deck-size dead space. Look at the side-view cross section.

The saucer rim has two decks with a gap between them (blue line) and additional space above and below that's almost but not quite enough room to fit full decks into.

Space for phaser/thruster mechanisms.

 

[SeerSGB]

There are no decks above and below, just a lot of deck-size dead space. Look at the side-view cross section.

The saucer rim has two decks with a gap between them (blue line) and additional space above and below that's almost but not quite enough room to fit full decks into.

Space for phaser/thruster mechanisms.

Jefferies tube, various ship systems. Most everything machinery wise in the Reboot-Verse is bigger and more bulky than we're used to, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that they need more room for basic equipment.

As for walking a 700+ meter length. A Nimitz class carrier is ~340 meters long. The deck crews work the length of deck hours at a time. Just one trip from the end to end and back is the length of the Enterprise--that's one deck. Some of these officers and men on a regular basis without the aid of antigravs, turbolifts, all the nice kit and gadget the Enterprise has. The when you consider half or more of that 700+ meter starship is nacelles, then the numbers of the internal size dial down a lot.

So the ship proper, discounting the larger nacelles, is actually in the same range as the refit Enterprise. The Nacelles just scale up the number cause their larger.

And remember, not every deck of the ~491 meters of proper ship is full length decks.

 

[ComicGuy89]

What someone needs to do is come up with something like this:

The more official the better. It'll give us a good understanding of how the ship looks like inside.

Incidentally, I think that shows how it cannot possibly be only strictly 2 decks tall at the rim. The old Connie could barely squeeze in 2 decks there

Source: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Constitution_class_decks

 

[SeerSGB]

What someone needs to do is come up with something like this:

**Image Snipped**

The more official the better. It'll give us a good understanding of how the ship looks like inside.

Incidentally, I think that shows how it cannot possibly be only strictly 2 decks tall at the rim. The old Connie could barely squeeze in 2 decks there

Source: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Constitution_class_decks

Still wouldn't shut people up. Even the diagram in you posted isn't universally accepted. We have a official length of the ship, and people are still saying the people that created the damn thing are "Wrong"

 

[Gonzo]

What someone needs to do is come up with something like this:

**Image Snipped**

The more official the better. It'll give us a good understanding of how the ship looks like inside.

Incidentally, I think that shows how it cannot possibly be only strictly 2 decks tall at the rim. The old Connie could barely squeeze in 2 decks there

Source: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Constitution_class_decks

Still wouldn't shut people up. Even the diagram in you posted isn't universally accepted. We have a official length of the ship, and people are still saying the people that created the damn thing are "Wrong"

Some people cant accept that it is bigger than the original, I guess they never will. If they cant accept the word from the designers and producers of the film then what will they accept...

Its a bit silly really, the NuEnterprise looks great and works really well on screen but some people have difficulty accepting change.

 

[Belz...]

That looks like two decks only alright.

It's the defiant all over again !

Read my post immediately above this. Unlike some on this board, I have the ability to change my mind and decide that the length could be different than I previously thought. I'm willing to go to 400-450m. But 700+ is simply inane.

We're asking for evidence, not whether you think it's reasonable or not. Again: shuttlebay.

No it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

You crack me up, KDiD. The green line is the height of the corridor alone (8 ft, as I recall). There is a generous space between the decks behind the windows (your little blue line). Yet the imaginary decks you show above and below are not separated by this amount. And furthermore, the green line you show at the very bottom doesn't line up with the corridor either.

You're getting bogged down in irrelevancies. The point is that the space is there, whether there's a deck in there or not.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I've brightened it up a bit so you can see things more clearly and outlined roughly where the corridor meets the saucer edge. As you can see, at least in this image, the saucer windows are not floor-to-ceiling like the bridge window. There's only room for two decks plus several feet of service space above and below.

Actually, it looks like there is a whole deck above the lighted one in this picture. There's a bit of space between the mid decks, and then room for another whole deck below the bottom (not visible here) deck. That would make it four decks deep in this case.

The windows aren't "floor to ceiling" but they're damn close. Almost as large as the windows in the Wheel Lounge in TFF, but a lot wider.

If you eliminate the service crawlways, you can squash three decks into the saucer, but then they don't line up with the windows at all.

Four line up nicely. Two window decks in middle, one above, one below.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

And please, please explain to me how the bridge, atrium, shuttlebay and engine rooms are supposed to fit into a 366m ship. I asked you this before and you never replied.

Read my post immediately above this. Unlike some on this board, I have the ability to change my mind and decide that the length could be different than I previously thought. I'm willing to go to 400-450m. But 700+ is simply inane.

You're tripping over the "length" issue as if length is a proxy for size. It is not.

If you rearranged the ship so that the saucer and nacelles were directly above the secondary hull instead of slightly above it -- IOW, if you arranged Enterprise's parts like USS Grissom -- the ship would only be 290 meters long. That, to you, would be more reasonable?

At its current size, the Enterprise is a modular construct of four vessel components, each of which is the size of a large real-world naval vessel; if you took 3 Essex class aircraft carriers and welded them together and then added a couple of Saturn-V rockets to the side, you'd basically have the Enterprise.

For those who think the ship is really 700m long, take a walk that distance so that you can see the beginning and end points. Then look at how much space that would give. Then imagine you had to run/climb that distance because the power was out and turbolifts were inoperative. etc...

700 meters is a little less than half a mile: or about four city blocks. Also known as "the distance between my dorm and the Literary History class I totally overslept for." I am VERY familiar with the length of that run: you'd be surprised how quickly a person can cover that distance with enough motivation.

More importantly, much of that 700 meters is the extension of the nacelles beyond the secondary hull, without which the length is only about 500 meters. Most important of all: the distance from the brig to the engine room is FAR less than the distance from the bow to the stern, probably around 250 meters or less.

So how long would it take to run/climb through 250 meters of tumbling starship? Probably about as long as it would take for a starship on an impact trajectory to fall into Earth's atmosphere.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

ENT: Future Tense established that the 31st century Federation has bigger on the inside technology, and that Future Guy (most likely a Romulan) was very interested in it. If he got his hands on it, and in same fashion it made it onto Nero's ship, and...

Ah, screw it, long story short: Enterprise is bigger on the inside, ship is 120m long, but the shuttles, brewery and the extra aft and port nacelles fit inside nicely, together with the life support hidden behind them.