Kinect 2.0 not requiered...

[Rincewiend]

so months ago MS claimed the Kinect needed to be hooked up to the XB1 for the system to function...
Guess what:

arned even more. The Kinect 2.0 need not even be connected to the Xbox One.

The news was revealed in an ongoing question and answer session IGN has been conducting with Xbox chief product officer Marc Whitten. "That said, like online, the console will still function if Kinect isn’t plugged in, although you won’t be able to use any feature or experience that explicitly uses the sensor," Whitten wrote.

Should you wish to leave the device connected, the Xbox One will prompt users to turn it on should they attempt to use anything that requires the Kinect. When off, the cameras and microphones are not receiving external data. This news is the latest in a long line of policy reversals, including a system-wide shift in digital rights management, indie self-publishing, and including a headset in the box.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/05/ask-microsoft-anything-about-xbox-one

So they pretty much reversed on pretty much all the "mandatory" stuff...

 

[Haggis and tatties]

So if we now dont need kinect 2 for the xbox one to function why are we paying extra to buy it. lol

 

[Kelthaz]

Very good Microsoft. Now release a $399 Xbox One SKU without the Kinect and we'll talk.

 

[FPAlpha]

MS must be scared shitless to lose the next generation console race because they started out by imposing their will on the consumer on what the Xbox should be and now they have bent over backwards and rolled everything back.

Still.. damage done and MS will need years to dig themselves out of the hole but even years down the line people will still remember the fiasco that was the pre-launch of the Xbox One.

 

[MacLeod]

A few great games and many will have forgotten about the pre-launch fiasco.

 

[Kelthaz]

Yeah, you're forgetting the $599!!!, "You'll want a second job for this", and "RIIIIIDGE RACER!" backlash from 2006. Sony was in the exact same position as Microsoft last generation with the PS3 and they managed to scrape their way into a respectable 2nd place behind the Wii. Sure, they lost billions as a result, but the point is that they recovered and restored their brand image. Microsoft will do the same.

 

[Relayer1]

Yeah, you're forgetting the $599!!!, "You'll want a second job for this", and "RIIIIIDGE RACER!" backlash from 2006. Sony was in the exact same position as Microsoft last generation with the PS3 and they managed to scrape their way into a respectable 2nd place behind the Wii. Sure, they lost billions as a result, but the point is that they recovered and restored their brand image. Microsoft will do the same.

Yes, but it may take time and cost them money.

Also, Sony learned their lesson - something Microsoft have proven less capable of...

 

[MacLeod]

At the end of the day it's the games that will help sell the machines. I won't be buying either at launch. I might not even buy either until closer to the end of 2014. No real games I fancy enough to part with my GB£430. I don't play a huge amount on my 360. And perhpas but the time I buy one they'll be slighly cheaper and who knows any manufcaturing bugs worked out.

 

[Jax]

A few great games and many will have forgotten about the pre-launch fiasco.

A few great games, price cut, Kinectless bundle and at least 1 year will help Microsoft with their pre-launch fiasco.

 

[PKerr]

I never bought into the whole "The system is built around Kinect 2.0 and won't work without it" B.S.
That's like saying you must have this printer hooked to you computer in order for the computer to work, it's a silly peripheral nothing more.


The next 180 Microsoft will be announcing will be the Kinect-less Sku and they will do it because "they listen to their consumers and really care about what you think".

I own both a 360 and a PS3 but mostly play on the 360, Next Gen will solely be PS4, Microsoft is going to have to earn my business back and it won't be any time soon.

 

[Timby]

The next 180 Microsoft will be announcing will be the Kinect-less Sku and they will do it because "they listen to their consumers and really care about what you think".

There's no way Microsoft will announce a Kinect-free system -- the company has invested a lot of money into Kinect 2.0, and if developers can't be guaranteed that the peripheral is in the box with every Xbox One, they won't develop for it and it will be dead on arrival.

 

[PKerr]

The next 180 Microsoft will be announcing will be the Kinect-less Sku and they will do it because "they listen to their consumers and really care about what you think".

There's no way Microsoft will announce a Kinect-free system -- the company has invested a lot of money into Kinect 2.0, and if developers can't be guaranteed that the peripheral is in the box with every Xbox One, they won't develop for it and it will be dead on arrival.

Are you really going to make a statement like that with all the 180's they have done so far?

IMO there is no way they can't release a Kinect free system, they have to compete and you can't compete being $100.00 more and selling a peripheral a lot of people don't want.

Honestly how can you say we are selling something for $100.00 more that you don't need or have to hook up if you don't want to?

Microsoft was stoopid to force Kinect in the first place.

 

[Timby]

The next 180 Microsoft will be announcing will be the Kinect-less Sku and they will do it because "they listen to their consumers and really care about what you think".

There's no way Microsoft will announce a Kinect-free system -- the company has invested a lot of money into Kinect 2.0, and if developers can't be guaranteed that the peripheral is in the box with every Xbox One, they won't develop for it and it will be dead on arrival.

Are you really going to make a statement like that with all the 180's they have done so far?

Yes, I am, because I'm looking at it from a business perspective, not a consumer viewpoint.

Microsoft put millions upon millions of dollars towards developing Kinect 2.0, and manufacturing the peripheral is prohibitively expensive. To not have it packed into every box is financial suicide, because the Kinect will then be DOA (just as essentially every other optional peripheral has been throughout history) and Microsoft then would have to look at writing off a lot of money as a sunk cost. Fifteen years ago, the company might have been willing to do that (heck, that was the strategy with the original Xbox, which hemorrhaged money), but 2013 Microsoft? Not going to happen. That kind of write-off is the stuff that makes shareholders and board members start calling for heads to roll.

 

[PKerr]

There's no way Microsoft will announce a Kinect-free system -- the company has invested a lot of money into Kinect 2.0, and if developers can't be guaranteed that the peripheral is in the box with every Xbox One, they won't develop for it and it will be dead on arrival.

Are you really going to make a statement like that with all the 180's they have done so far?

Yes, I am, because I'm looking at it from a business perspective, not a consumer viewpoint.

Microsoft put millions upon millions of dollars towards developing Kinect 2.0, and manufacturing the peripheral is prohibitively expensive. To not have it packed into every box is financial suicide, because the Kinect will then be DOA (just as essentially every other optional peripheral has been throughout history) and Microsoft then would have to look at writing off a lot of money as a sunk cost. Fifteen years ago, the company might have been willing to do that (heck, that was the strategy with the original Xbox, which hemorrhaged money), but 2013 Microsoft? Not going to happen. That kind of write-off is the stuff that makes shareholders and board members start calling for heads to roll.

And to me it financial suicide to do so, you have to offer your consumers choices.

Tell me something, would you spend more on a car from a dealer that was fully loaded with a bunch of stuff you would never use or would you go across the street and get exactly what you wanted for the price you want to pay?

I also hear the argument about Kinect failing if it's not shipped with the system, I got news for you, just because there is one in every box doesn't mean Devs will use it, it's a gimmick, nothing more.

Tell me this, if Kinect was so great how come it's attach rate was abysmal?
The most popular game sold less than 3 million copies, for having 20+ million units out that that is pretty poor.
Most titles barley broke 100k in units sold, Go to VG charts and punch in any Kinect title, see for yourself.
If the thing was so great it would be like giving away free ice-cream on a hot summer day, practically everyone would want it but ya know what? they don't.

 

[Timby]

Are you really going to make a statement like that with all the 180's they have done so far?

Yes, I am, because I'm looking at it from a business perspective, not a consumer viewpoint.

Microsoft put millions upon millions of dollars towards developing Kinect 2.0, and manufacturing the peripheral is prohibitively expensive. To not have it packed into every box is financial suicide, because the Kinect will then be DOA (just as essentially every other optional peripheral has been throughout history) and Microsoft then would have to look at writing off a lot of money as a sunk cost. Fifteen years ago, the company might have been willing to do that (heck, that was the strategy with the original Xbox, which hemorrhaged money), but 2013 Microsoft? Not going to happen. That kind of write-off is the stuff that makes shareholders and board members start calling for heads to roll.

And to me it financial suicide to do so, you have to offer your consumers choices.

Tell me something, would you spend more a car from a dealer that was fully loaded with a bunch of stuff you would never use or would you go across the street and get exactly what you wanted for the price you want to pay?

I also hear the argument about Kinect failing if it's not shipped with the system, I got news for you, just because there is one in every box doesn't mean Devs will use it, it's a gimmick, nothing more.

Tell me this, if Kinect was so great how come it's attach rate was abysmal?
The most popular game sold less than 3 million copies, for having 20+ million units out that that is pretty poor.
Most titles barley broke 100k in units sold, Go to VG charts and punch in any Kinect title, see for yourself.
If the thing was so great it would be like giving away free ice-cream on a hot summer day, practically everyone would want it but ya know what? they don't.

You're either deliberately sidestepping or flat-out missing my point. Not once have I argued that Kinect is a great peripheral (though I'm very intrigued by the tech advances made with Kinect 2.0), and I'm on the fence as to whether or not forcing the peripheral was a good idea.

That being said, the fact of the matter is that Microsoft poured a lot of cash into R&D for Kinect 2. And it costs a lot to make each unit. When you make that kind of expenditure, you don't suddenly throw up your hands and say, "Eh, that was a fun way to spend millions of dollars, now we'll make it optional and toss away any hope of recouping our investment." It's not like reversing on the DRM issue, which was a simple matter of flipping a switch, figuratively speaking -- the horse has already bolted on the hardware side of things. To offer a Kinect-free box would be the same lunacy as the different SKUs (with and without hard drive) with the Xbox 360 launch, except multiplied by a factor of a hundred. This is business economics 101.

 

[PKerr]

Yes, I am, because I'm looking at it from a business perspective, not a consumer viewpoint.

Microsoft put millions upon millions of dollars towards developing Kinect 2.0, and manufacturing the peripheral is prohibitively expensive. To not have it packed into every box is financial suicide, because the Kinect will then be DOA (just as essentially every other optional peripheral has been throughout history) and Microsoft then would have to look at writing off a lot of money as a sunk cost. Fifteen years ago, the company might have been willing to do that (heck, that was the strategy with the original Xbox, which hemorrhaged money), but 2013 Microsoft? Not going to happen. That kind of write-off is the stuff that makes shareholders and board members start calling for heads to roll.

And to me it financial suicide to do so, you have to offer your consumers choices.

Tell me something, would you spend more a car from a dealer that was fully loaded with a bunch of stuff you would never use or would you go across the street and get exactly what you wanted for the price you want to pay?

I also hear the argument about Kinect failing if it's not shipped with the system, I got news for you, just because there is one in every box doesn't mean Devs will use it, it's a gimmick, nothing more.

Tell me this, if Kinect was so great how come it's attach rate was abysmal?
The most popular game sold less than 3 million copies, for having 20+ million units out that that is pretty poor.
Most titles barley broke 100k in units sold, Go to VG charts and punch in any Kinect title, see for yourself.
If the thing was so great it would be like giving away free ice-cream on a hot summer day, practically everyone would want it but ya know what? they don't.

You're either deliberately sidestepping or flat-out missing my point. Not once have I argued that Kinect is a great peripheral (though I'm very intrigued by the tech advances made with Kinect 2.0), and I'm on the fence as to whether or not forcing the peripheral was a good idea.

That being said, the fact of the matter is that Microsoft poured a lot of cash into R&D for Kinect 2. And it costs a lot to make each unit. When you make that kind of expenditure, you don't suddenly throw up your hands and say, "Eh, that was a fun way to spend millions of dollars, now we'll make it optional and toss away any hope of recouping our investment." It's not like reversing on the DRM issue, which was a simple matter of flipping a switch, figuratively speaking -- the horse has already bolted on the hardware side of things. To offer a Kinect-free box would be the same lunacy as the different SKUs (with and without hard drive) with the Xbox 360 launch, except multiplied by a factor of a hundred. This is business economics 101.

Practically everything Microsoft has spent millions of dollars to copy and released in the last 5-6 years has flopped, why should kinect be any different?

It's funny that you mention a sku without a hard-drive, in doing so they lowered the price for the consumer (which was good) but dumbed the system down for the Devs which was very, VERY bad, it held the system back for many years.
Now they are making the same mistake, they are jacking the cost up for the consumer and still dumbing the system down (IMO).


Edit to add
Just found this article.
http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Takes+900M+Charge+on+Surface+Flop+/article32004.htm

 

[Kelthaz]

That being said, the fact of the matter is that Microsoft poured a lot of cash into R&D for Kinect 2. And it costs a lot to make each unit. When you make that kind of expenditure, you don't suddenly throw up your hands and say, "Eh, that was a fun way to spend millions of dollars, now we'll make it optional and toss away any hope of recouping our investment."

Pissing away the millions that Microsoft spent developing the Kinect 2.0 is a hell of a lot better than ending up with the Dreamcast 2.0.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

CBOAT posted a few things on neogaf the other day, one was quite intresting..

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=654903

TRUTHFACT 1:

No live stream for real reasons. Xbone architecture is still not full complete. The latest version of the SDK from a couple weeks ago dropped performances by 15-20 percent across the board. Now before you get mad at me this happens ALL THE TIME in console development and it will eventually be fixed but there's no chance for an early October release or...

TRUTHFACT 2:

... certainly not for all 21 countries. Localization is absolute one hundred percent BS. TRUTHFACT. The excuses are some that nobody with common sense would consider. Look at the countries dropped. Cross references them against the languages being spoken [in them], official or otherwise in said countries. I said it yielded issues 2 months ago and the chicks have come home to roost. [something something Smartglass] Paying the price now.


TRUTHFACT 3:

Late October launch for PS4. Sony SDKs are ready. You could basically master your final version right now. Today, even!

TRUTHFACT 4:

If you thought people were mad about Bayonetta's sequel going to WiiU you will be someone unhappy about what Microsoft is getting exclusively from Platinum. Other Japanese developers are in play but too, but Kamiya is the only one I can confirm. The game is not for North America or Europe, which makes no sense but whatever.

TRUTHFACT 5:

Big Park(?) killed their game. It was a MOBA. It's dead. The whole studio is now focused on TV stuff. All the bes talent went to Big Tusk(?) or left MS entirely. Rare is still Kinect focused.

TRUTHFACT 6: New indie publishing policy is not set yet and probably won't be until after launch.

TRUTHFACT 7:

September surprise early. I apologize in advance. Everything I saw over last 24 months said there was no chance of a kinectless SKU [to start]. Concrete decision up till now. However,

There are whispers that there will be a kinect optional SKU early next year, probably around March or April. There's enough smoke around this that I didn't want to wait until September to say it! We'll have to wait for launch sales to see for sure.

Of course none of this is offical, but CBOAT has been very accurate in some of the stuff leaked to neogaf.

 

[PKerr]

CBOAT posted a few things on neogaf the other day, one was quite intresting..

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=654903

TRUTHFACT 1:

No live stream for real reasons. Xbone architecture is still not full complete. The latest version of the SDK from a couple weeks ago dropped performances by 15-20 percent across the board. Now before you get mad at me this happens ALL THE TIME in console development and it will eventually be fixed but there's no chance for an early October release or...

TRUTHFACT 2:

... certainly not for all 21 countries. Localization is absolute one hundred percent BS. TRUTHFACT. The excuses are some that nobody with common sense would consider. Look at the countries dropped. Cross references them against the languages being spoken [in them], official or otherwise in said countries. I said it yielded issues 2 months ago and the chicks have come home to roost. [something something Smartglass] Paying the price now.


TRUTHFACT 3:

Late October launch for PS4. Sony SDKs are ready. You could basically master your final version right now. Today, even!

TRUTHFACT 4:

If you thought people were mad about Bayonetta's sequel going to WiiU you will be someone unhappy about what Microsoft is getting exclusively from Platinum. Other Japanese developers are in play but too, but Kamiya is the only one I can confirm. The game is not for North America or Europe, which makes no sense but whatever.

TRUTHFACT 5:

Big Park(?) killed their game. It was a MOBA. It's dead. The whole studio is now focused on TV stuff. All the bes talent went to Big Tusk(?) or left MS entirely. Rare is still Kinect focused.

TRUTHFACT 6: New indie publishing policy is not set yet and probably won't be until after launch.

TRUTHFACT 7:

September surprise early. I apologize in advance. Everything I saw over last 24 months said there was no chance of a kinectless SKU [to start]. Concrete decision up till now. However,

There are whispers that there will be a kinect optional SKU early next year, probably around March or April. There's enough smoke around this that I didn't want to wait until September to say it! We'll have to wait for launch sales to see for sure.

Of course none of this is offical, but CBOAT has been very accurate in some of the stuff leaked to neogaf.

Just to be clear, I don't think we will see a Kinect-less Sku at launch (though it wouldn't surprise me in the least and it would be foolish not to) but I do think (as the article suggests) that we will see it early next year, I personally think it will earlier than March or April as Microsoft will have lost a lot of ground to Sony in those 5-6 months, 2 of which are Holiday shopping months.

 

[Sephiroth]

I won't even BEGIN to contemplate a new console until the end of next year, but the ONLY way I'll buy an Xbone is if it doesn't come with the Kinect, the device is a loser, I don't wana wave my arms around like an idiot to play games, and I'm not all that interested in face-to-face chat, especially the button that forces you into skype. Microsoft needs to admit that this product is a failure, and let it join videogame failure history with the Virtual Boy and the Sega Nomad.