I'm just gonna feel really bad for them in the event that there is a real afterlife that doesn't fit in with their expectations.
Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?
- Thread starter JarodRussell
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I'm just gonna feel really bad for them in the event that there is a real afterlife that doesn't fit in with their expectations.
A
Amaris
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You've heard the old joke, I'm sure (I spruced it up a bit though):
One day, a group of people arrived at the Gates of Heaven, where Saint Peter was standing, waiting to greet them.
"Hello!" he said, "and welcome to Heaven."
Many of them were looking around in shock and surprise, and so Saint Peter asked the one nearest him.
"Is there something wrong?"
The woman looked around and back at him and said, "I don't know why I'm here, Saint Peter. I was an atheist back on earth."
Another person, a man, called out "I was a Buddhist!" and another one, "I was gay!"
Saint Peter looked at all of them and smiled, saying, "Don't you know how much God loves you? What you did wasn't wrong in his eyes, because you loved your neighbor, and you were kind to your fellow man. You're here because you let love guide your heart, and not layer upon layer of legalism and finger pointing. Now, follow me, and I'll give you the tour."
So they entered the pearly gates as Saint Peter showed them around. There were many wonders in heaven; beautiful skies, lush grass, ancient trees, crystal clear lakes and streams, and palatial homes everywhere! Near the end of the tour, however, they passed a large tent, and inside they could hear angry shouting, and preaching the likes of which they'd never heard.
One of the people near the tent asked Saint Peter, "Who is inside this tent, Saint Peter?"
Saint Peter, a half grin on his face said, "Those are the Biblical literalists. They think they're the only ones here."
A perfect post!
J., I got one, too.
The Popehttp://jokes4all.net/popes.html arrives in heaven, where St. Peter awaites him. St. Peter asks who he is.
The Pope: "I am the pope."
St. Peter: "Who? There's no such name in my book."
The Pope: "I'm the representative of God on Earth."
St.Peter: "Does God have a representative? He didn't tell me ..."
The Pope: "But I am the leader of the Catholic Church ..."
St. Peter: "The Catholic church ... Never heard of it ... Wait, I'll check with the boss."
St. Peter walks away through Heaven's Gate to talk with God.
St. Peter: "There's a dude standing outside who claims he's your representative on earth."
God: "I don't have a representative on earth, not that I know of ... Wait, I'll ask Jesus." (yells for Jesus)
Jesus: "Yes father, what's up?"
God and St. Peter explain the situation.
Jesus: "Wait, I'll go outside and have a little chat with that fellow."
Ten minutes pass and Jesus reenters the room laughing out loud. After a few minutes St. Peter asks Jesus why he's laughing.
Jesus: "Remember that fishing club I've started 2000 years ago? It still exists!"
The Popehttp://jokes4all.net/popes.html arrives in heaven, where St. Peter awaites him. St. Peter asks who he is.
The Pope: "I am the pope."
St. Peter: "Who? There's no such name in my book."
The Pope: "I'm the representative of God on Earth."
St.Peter: "Does God have a representative? He didn't tell me ..."
The Pope: "But I am the leader of the Catholic Church ..."
St. Peter: "The Catholic church ... Never heard of it ... Wait, I'll check with the boss."
St. Peter walks away through Heaven's Gate to talk with God.
St. Peter: "There's a dude standing outside who claims he's your representative on earth."
God: "I don't have a representative on earth, not that I know of ... Wait, I'll ask Jesus." (yells for Jesus)
Jesus: "Yes father, what's up?"
God and St. Peter explain the situation.
Jesus: "Wait, I'll go outside and have a little chat with that fellow."
Ten minutes pass and Jesus reenters the room laughing out loud. After a few minutes St. Peter asks Jesus why he's laughing.
Jesus: "Remember that fishing club I've started 2000 years ago? It still exists!"
Good one!
Thank you. You know, I put some thought into this, because it's an interesting subject, but I don't mean to offend anyone, so I tread carefully.
Thing is, tolerance might be something most religions preach, but many believers don't grasp the implications of the concept: you're supposed to accept that every and all other opinions are just as valuable as your own. If everyone just kept out of everyone else's business and simply restricted themselves to doing no harm, the world would be a much, much better place, wouldn't it?
This makes no sense. The second sentence contradicts the first.
A
Amaris
Guest
It's true the more angry of the Atheists, like the more angry of the Christians, give the rest of us a bad rap.
Those angry teenagers who call Richard Dawkins their lord and savior and think everybody who believes in anything supernatural is a moron. Once and for all I will say, we're not with them. They are our Pat Robertson.
There's enough unprovable about the origin in the universe it's hard to be 'More rational than thou' about faithfulness. The only thing that's impossible to tolerate is when religious people try to write their beliefs into law. Like, writing evolution out of school textbooks, or in some countries where women's rights are restricted because of religion.
And religion is not the root cause of good people doing bad things. Groupthink is the cause, the religion is only one possible cause of groupthink. When you defer responsibility for your own actions to mob, that's when good people do bad things.
Those angry teenagers who call Richard Dawkins their lord and savior and think everybody who believes in anything supernatural is a moron. Once and for all I will say, we're not with them. They are our Pat Robertson.
There's enough unprovable about the origin in the universe it's hard to be 'More rational than thou' about faithfulness. The only thing that's impossible to tolerate is when religious people try to write their beliefs into law. Like, writing evolution out of school textbooks, or in some countries where women's rights are restricted because of religion.
And religion is not the root cause of good people doing bad things. Groupthink is the cause, the religion is only one possible cause of groupthink. When you defer responsibility for your own actions to mob, that's when good people do bad things.
I am thinking how to explain it again in simpler terms, but it's pretty hard to have a debate with someone with such a poor command of logic.
A
Amaris
Guest
No, that's not what it's saying at all.
Let me try again:
"Hello, I am a Christian, and this is the 1600s. You are a witch. I'm sorry I have to do this, but we have to burn you at the stake. If it wasn't for my faith, I wouldn't know that being a witch is so evil that witches must not be allowed to live. I will have to kill you now, the Bible commands it, and the Bible is moral and righteous, which makes this moral and righteous. I'm sorry."
See how that's not anything you just thought it was?
A religion can lead a good person to take horrible actions because they believe that their God has made it necessary. They don't have to like it, but they do it because they believe it to be just and righteous, because in their religion, their god commands it to be done as such. You are, after all, familiar with the phrase "God's ways are not our ways," are you not? That has been used to smooth over personal feelings, ones by good people, in order to justify the need to do evil as a form of good.
That's about as plain as I can make it.
That has nothing really to do with the quote. Let me explain the problem by simplifying it:
"With or without religion evil people do evil."
"With religion good people will do evil."
Your "withs" are contradicting.
A
Amaris
Guest
No, they're not.
Look, one more time, I'm serious, because I want you to understand:
Without religion:
GOOD PERSON: "Lo, I am good, I do good things. I feed the hungry."
EVIL PERSON: "Argh, I am evil! I do evil things! I eat babies!"
With me so far? Let's go on:
With religion:
GOOD PERSON: "Lo, I am good, I do good things. My son is gay, and I love him and told him he is loved."
GOOD PERSON WHO THINKS THEY ARE DOING GOOD: "Lo, I am good, I do good things. I rejected my gay son because he is gay and the Bible forbids it, so I kicked him out and forbade contact with him because we can't succumb to sin."
EVIL PERSON: "Argh, I am evil! I do evil things! I eat babies!"
Now, before you reply, read over those really well. Study them. Let it click. A good person can do things that they believe are good, even if they are evil, simply because their religion tells them that it is evil, so they follow that religion's claims of morality and righteousness, even if in the process, they've kicked their own children out of their house, just for being human.
Countless times, I've heard the phrase, "Well, I don't have a problem with it, but it's against God's law, so it's wrong and has to be stopped." The religion has affected a good person's judgment to the point where they see their actions as moral and right, even if they are harmful and wrong, and it's all because of that religion that has affected that person.
The problem, as I might understand it, is that people like Ryan define "good" and "evil" as their religion command them, instead of as their own morality tell them.
So they are incapable of understanding how religion can make people to do evil. If the Bible says it's good, it is good. If the Bible say it's evil, it is evil.
Slaying the Philistines and collecting their foreskins? Totally fine! Steve kissing Bob? Super-evil!
Not quite accurate. They do not do so because God commanded them to. Well, most of them don't. They do so because they know failure to do so will have social consequences. "You are seen as a witch. Therefore if I do not burn you at the stake, I will be seen as pro-witch".
The same thing happens in militaries that have nothing to do with religion. Oh, I found an unarmed enemy soldier cowering in fear hiding in a ditch. If I don't execute him right now I will be seen as pro-enemy.
Totally agree. It's the adult version of a basically good teen doing something stupid because "everyone" is doing it. With adults, the group may be religion... or a political party or an employer ("all my coworkers do it") or...
The problem, if you care to really understand, is that saying in the situation of religion a good person will do good. Then saying that in a situation of religion a good person will do evil. How is that not contradictory?
You have already defined an environment will lead to an action in one statement then defined that same environment will lead to a different opposite action.
Or 1+1=2
and
1+1=0
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