Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

[The Wormhole]

No, it's a sequel. In the official trailer, we see a character saying that Coulson was killed before "the Battle of New York," only to be surprised to discover Coulson alive.

Yes, I know. But apparently, Coulson was killed off. Permanently. Completely and utterly. People in this thread said so. Despite, you know, that being patently untrue, both in the Avengers (again, Fury only said he was dead to rally everyone and provided manufactured evidence to "prove" it) and in this continuing storyline.

So clearly it must be a prequel or not part of the same continuity at all. Even though it's not a prequel. At all.

It's a production of Marvel Television and it has the Marvel logo atop its logo. It's based on an organization and a character created and copyrighted by Marvel. It's definitely related to Marvel.

Nope, it can't be. Marvel killed Coulson off, thus if Coulson is actually alive, this can't be a Marvel production. Clearly.

It's in the same continuity as the movies; it's just telling an independent set of stories. Much like, say, Star Trek: Voyager was in the same universe as ST:TNG but was separate from it because it dealt with different characters and situations. So they're in continuity in that they share a common background reality and a common history, but they're not directly sharing characters or storylines. We won't be seeing Tony Stark or Bruce Banner or Black Widow in the show, most likely.

Nope, people in this thread have decreed that Coulson was undisputedly killed off in Avengers, thus if he's alive in this show, it can't be the same continuity. Even though he wasn't and it is.

(<whoosh!>)

And best of all, since Coulson is dead in the Avengers continuity, which appearently has no bearing on this show (despite the fact that it's the same continuity and these people are just flat out wrong, but admitting that is nigh impossible), there's no way in hell his actor could still have a contract for the movies and one for the television at the same time. Why, that alone is impossible to imagine, by Jove.

EDIT: Before replying, you may want to look at the two threads this is all in response to. Helpful link #1 and helpful link #2.

It seems pretty obvious to me that this series is in the same continuity as The Avengers, set after the movie, and that as far as the series is concerned, Coulson is alive and Fury lied to everyone when he said Coulson had been killed. I see nothing in your "helpful links" to contradict this.

 

[Christopher]

Really, it wouldn't be the Marvel Universe without characters coming back from the dead. Is Clark Gregg's character named Ben Parker? No? Then of course he can come back to life.

 

[DEWLine]

And CTV just announced landing Canadian broadcast rights.

 

[Ruaidhri]

Good to know.

 

[Procutus]

I just watched the trailer, that was great! I can't wait to see this in the fall. Damn shame we have to wait that long for it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"Welcome to Level Seven," is pretty clearly a declaration that it's the same continuity, as if one was needed at all.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Fury said Coulson died believing in heroes. He never said he stayed dead.

My best friend died 25 years ago. Twice. I was talking to him this week. He died on the operating table after a car accident. They brought him back. It didn't take and he died again. They brought him back again. This time it took.

Modern medicine can work miracles. Not always, but often enough.

Coulson dies, the med-techs arrive and get him to Emergency. The docs hook him up to a heart machine to keep him going while they repair the damage to his own heart. He's probably in ICU for months, then rehab for even longer. But in the end Phil Coulson walks out of the hospital under his own steam.

My guess is that in the pilot episode he's just now returning to duty.

Is this really so difficult a concept to grasp?

 

[Set Harth]

I'm thinking they should go with time travel.

 

[DimesDan]

Just watched the trailer with the other half and we both agree, it doesn't look brilliant and meh!

 

[JarodRussell]

My best friend died 25 years ago. Twice. I was talking to him this week. He died on the operating table after a car accident. They brought him back. It didn't take and he died again. They brought him back again. This time it took.

Then he was never dead at any point to begin with.

 

[Turtletrekker]

If the spear had gone through his heart or spine, he would have died instantly. As it obviously didn't, I can see how he could have been saved through modern conventional medicine. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Joss went with something a little more "out there" to explain it.

 

[JarodRussell]

As it obviously didn't, I can see how he could have been saved through modern conventional medicine.

What is "modern conventional medicine" in a universe where flying, cloaked aircraft carriers exist?

 

[Christopher]

If the spear had gone through his heart or spine, he would have died instantly. As it obviously didn't, I can see how he could have been saved through modern conventional medicine.

Absolutely right. The problem is that fiction simplifies the process of death, both for story convenience and to sanitize it somewhat, and thus people whose only experience with violent death is what they see in the media tend to have a lot of misconceptions about it. In fiction, people -- at least bad guys and extras -- tend to drop dead instantly after being shot or stabbed, but in reality, it's often a lot more gradual depending on where the injury occurs. People have survived being shot by hundreds of bullets or stabbed dozens of times. Some have even survived being impaled through the brain, though not without personality changes.

There's also the fact that medicine has improved, and thus has pushed back the limits of what constitutes irreversible death. Coulson was in the hands of the medical team moments after he appeared to die, and people in real life have been brought back from worse. And we only have Fury's word over the radio that the medics had "called it," i.e. declared him dead. And we know Fury lies.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Joss went with something a little more "out there" to explain it.

That has been implied in interviews, yes -- that the mystery of Coulson's revival is something that will be developed gradually over the season. So while it could be something as simple as the doctors getting to him in time and being very good at their jobs, it probably won't be.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh, there is no doubt he survived, in spite of what we saw happen in the movie.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

My best friend died 25 years ago. Twice. I was talking to him this week. He died on the operating table after a car accident. They brought him back. It didn't take and he died again. They brought him back again. This time it took.

Then he was never dead at any point to begin with.

My apologies. I'm sure you know better than the guy who experienced it. And his doctors.

 

[Reverend]

I think JarodRussell is laboring under the notion that there is only one degree of "dead". There's dead as in the heart has stopped and ain't about to start again without intervention and then there's brain death...and I think brain stem death too. Legal and medical definitions have shifted over the years as medical science pushed back the point of no return.

But yeah, regardless this is a comic book show. Bringing a person back from thoracic trauma and a spymaster garnishing the truth of his prognosis is a lot more plausible than a some magical serum that doubles a person's bodymass, makes them bullet proof and allows a human body to survive more than half a century in a glacier.

 

[JarodRussell]

I think JarodRussell is laboring under the notion that there is only one degree of "dead". There's dead as in the heart has stopped and ain't about to start again without intervention and then there's brain death...and I think brain stem death too. Legal and medical definitions have shifted over the years as medical science pushed back the point of no return.

Exactly. If you can be revived, you never were actually dead.

 

[ATimson]

If you can be revived, you never were actually dead.

If they weren't dead, why did they need to be revived?

 

[Ayelbourne]

You're only dead when a doctor declares you dead. As long as they try to revive you, they don't view you as dead, obviously.

 

[Christopher]

See, this is just my point. Death is a more gradual and complicated process than we tend to think, so there's no consensus, even medically or scientifically, on what differentiates being dead from being nearly dead.

However, there is such a thing as being "clinically dead." Clinical death is the cessation of heartbeat and respiration. This used to be considered just plain death, but now it's often reversible with resuscitation techniques, and there have been cases of spontaneous revival. So these days there are at least two medically recognized categories of "dead" -- clinical and permanent. Essentially clinical death is the first stage of the process of death. Death isn't a single instantaneous event the way we used to believe, but a transition that begins with clinical death and progresses to permanent death, unless it can be interrupted and reversed.

So Duncan's best friend would indeed have been clinically dead. That's an accepted medical term for his condition at the time. He just wasn't irreversibly dead yet.