The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

[Captain Clark Terrell]

IMO, forget Ship Of The Line. Like Christopher stated, it was clearly seen in the episode itself there was a woman in the bridge-crew, something Diane Carey completely ignored while she went for an all male crew. That, together with bad writing, silly plot and Picard doing nothing but worshipping Kirk, make this a rather silly novel.

I would like nothing better than to forget it. I still have visions of George Hill ensnaring Bozeman bridge officers with his tentacles.

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

IMO, forget Ship Of The Line. Like Christopher stated, it was clearly seen in the episode itself there was a woman in the bridge-crew, something Diane Carey completely ignored while she went for an all male crew.

Two women, actually. A straight-haired brunette in a command lieutenant's uniform, supposedly the first officer per the script (whom I named Parvana Whitcomb), and a curly-haired redhead in what appears to be an engineering uniform (whom I named Claudia Alisov).

 

[Kevman7987]

I would like nothing better than to forget it. I still have visions of George Hill ensnaring Bozeman bridge officers with his tentacles.

Hmm. The George Hill Blob monster was the only good part of that novel as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Two women, actually. A straight-haired brunette in a command lieutenant's uniform, supposedly the first officer per the script (whom I named Parvana Whitcomb), and a curly-haired redhead in what appears to be an engineering uniform (whom I named Claudia Alisov).

Interesting names. Are they based on people you know, or did you create them from scratch?

Hmm. The George Hill Blob monster was the only good part of that novel as far as I'm concerned.

I rather enjoyed the scenes featuring Kirk and Spock just before the Bozeman disappeared, especially Bateson's surprise when he realized Kirk was commanding the Enterprise.

--Sran

 

[F. King Daniel]

Although it really could have done without Picard watching "Balance of Terror" on the holodeck, I thought Ship of the Line was enjoyable. It was nice to see it referenced in Cold Equations: Silent Weapons

 

[Christopher]

Two women, actually. A straight-haired brunette in a command lieutenant's uniform, supposedly the first officer per the script (whom I named Parvana Whitcomb), and a curly-haired redhead in what appears to be an engineering uniform (whom I named Claudia Alisov).

Interesting names. Are they based on people you know, or did you create them from scratch?

I was going for time-travel in-jokes. Whitcomb was a character from Poul Anderson's first Time Patrol story. I think I just picked Parvana because the actress looked like she could be nonwhite and I wanted to add a bit of diversity. Claudia is in reference to Claudia Wells from Back to the Future, and Alisov is an indirect reference to The Time Tunnel's Lee Meriwether (who also played Catwoman, aka "Miss Kitka" Alisoff, in the 1966 Batman movie). Again, I was looking for a bit more diversity, which is why I didn't call her McGregor (Meriwether's Time Tunnel character name).

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Although it really could have done without Picard watching "Balance of Terror" on the holodeck, I thought Ship of the Line was enjoyable. It was nice to see it referenced in Cold Equations: Silent Weapons

I actually enjoyed the reenactment, as it provided fascinating insight into the differences between ship masters of Kirk's time and those of Picard's. The alpha quadrant of The Original Series was a lot like the Old West. Ships were often left to their own devices when attempting to avert a crisis. Kirk was accountable to Starfleet brass, but as far as he was concerned, whether the Federation went to war against Romulus was his decision.

I was going for time-travel in-jokes. Whitcomb was a character from Poul Anderson's first Time Patrol story. I think I just picked Parvana because the actress looked like she could be nonwhite and I wanted to add a bit of diversity. Claudia is in reference to Claudia Wells from Back to the Future, and Alisov is an indirect reference to The Time Tunnel's Lee Meriwether (who also played Catwoman, aka "Miss Kitka" Alisoff, in the 1966 Batman movie). Again, I was looking for a bit more diversity, which is why I didn't call her McGregor (Meriwether's Time Tunnel character name).

Thanks for the explanation, Christopher! I love Back to the Future, so any mention of those films makes me smile. They're probably part of the reason why I enjoy time travel stories so much.

--Sran

 

[trampledamage]

Thanks to this discussion - I've reserved Watching the Clock from my library, looking forward to reading it

 

[JD]

You're in for a treat. It's an awesome book.

 

[Stevil2001]

The experience on the Enterprise seemed to get out of hand pretty quickly (17 days) whereas on the Bozeman (lost 80 yrs earlier) they didn't seem bothered at all. I wonder if they did experienced anything at all, and if they did, what the writers came up with.

Also, I wonder if they on the Bozeman only began to experience something like the Enterprise did once the Enterprise entered the expanse and the two ships began colliding with each other. Maybe if they hadn't, if it were just the Enterprise lost in the expanse, IT wouldn't have felt anything at all for years on end either until some other ship caused ITS temporal loop to be interrupted.

I've always kind of assumed from the episode that there were two distinct temporal effects going on here. The first one is your standard (for Trek anyway) "Yesterday's Enterprise"-style temporal anomaly. This is what brought the Bozeman forward from 2278. According to chakoteya.net, the Enterprise crew constantly referred to it as a "highly localized distortion of the space-time continuum". Bozeman flew into the distortion in 2278 and emerged in 2368 almost instantaneously, much like Enterprise-C came forward from 2344 to 2366.

The temporal loop effect was specific to the Enterprise. The characters speculated in the episode itself that the loop was caused by their ship exploding so close to the temporal anomaly.

So from the Bozeman's POV, they wouldn't experience a loop, or deja vu, or anything like that. If anything, they'd maybe relive the amount of time over from the time they emerged from the anomaly to the time the Enterprise exploded, but that's only a minute or two at most. And they should have only experienced this for the same amount of time the Enterprise crew did--17 days.

Anyway, that's my personal take on it, from back when I first saw the episode. I'm not sure it agrees with any of the novels' interpretations, but based on what someone wrote above, I guess it'd be closer to Ship of the Line, but it's been so long since I read that that I don't remember the details.

I always shared this interpretation. How could the Bozeman be looping through its impact with the Enterprise decades before the Enterprise shows up?

Poor Bozeman, two separate temporal anomalies right at once! Stay out of the Typhon Expanse, I guess.

 

[Christopher]

I always shared this interpretation. How could the Bozeman be looping through its impact with the Enterprise decades before the Enterprise shows up?

Where temporal anomalies are involved, conventional definitions of "before" and "after" don't apply.

 

[Stevil2001]

Well, sure, but it suggests a causal discontinuity that I don't think is otherwise implied by the episode.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I always shared this interpretation. How could the Bozeman be looping through its impact with the Enterprise decades before the Enterprise shows up?

When the Bozeman entered the anomaly, it was transported forward in time to 2368, so there was no wait for the Enterprise to show up.

Where temporal anomalies are involved, conventional definitions of "before" and "after" don't apply.

Well said.

--Sran

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Well, sure, but it suggests a causal discontinuity that I don't think is otherwise implied by the episode.

See my reply to your previous post.

--Sran

 

[Stevil2001]

I always shared this interpretation. How could the Bozeman be looping through its impact with the Enterprise decades before the Enterprise shows up?

When the Bozeman entered the anomaly, it was transported forward in time to 2368, so there was no wait for the Enterprise to show up.

Well, then it wasn't looping through time for 70 years.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Well, then it wasn't looping through time for 70 years.

Precisely. What I'm suggesting is that the loop existed only in 2368, so the Bozeman would not have encountered the loop- and the Enterprise- until it traveled forward in time by passing through the anomaly. When the Enterprise became caught in the loop, it experienced the Bozeman's arrival several times before finally breaking the cycle, but the Bozeman would only have experienced the scenario once from its crew's perspective.

I don't know that any of what I'm suggesting makes sense, but it's an explanation that seems to fit the available facts.

--Sran

 

[Zedferret]

I always looked at is as the Bozeman jumps forward in time, due to a spacial anomaly and immediately encounters the Enterprise, the destruction of which while in the anomaly begins the causality loop. Both ships are caught for 17 days. So the dejavu effects on the Bozeman wouldn't be any worse than on the Enterprise.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I always looked at is as the Bozeman jumps forward in time, due to a spacial anomaly and immediately encounters the Enterprise, the destruction of which while in the anomaly begins the causality loop. Both ships are caught for 17 days. So the dejavu effects on the Bozeman wouldn't be any worse than on the Enterprise.

The Bozeman's time in each cycle of the loop would also be brief, as they only appear just before the collision.

--Sran

 

[Khan Harrison]

In Watching The Clock, one of the Bozeman's crewmembers explained that some people had the notion every now and then something felt 'off' or something like that, but other then that, they never noticed anything.

^No, I went into more depth about it than that.

Spoiler: WtC -- Bozeman

Essentially they had the same gradual "awakening" of awareness that the E-D crew had, but with no means to resolve the crisis (i.e. no Data, and less advanced tech otherwise), they couldn't do anything with that awareness, so eventually their efforts to deal with it just gave way to resignation and despair, and they stopped trying to act on their feelings that something was wrong. Quite the existential nightmare, really.

I'm impressed that the crew was as functional as it was. Surely they had plenty of therapy!

I'm just relived Mr. Bennett didn't forget there was a WOMAN on the bridge of the Bozeman like Miss Carey did.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I'm just relived Mr. Bennett didn't forget there was a WOMAN on the bridge of the Bozeman like Miss Carey did.

It's really amazing she missed that. The woman's standing right next to Bateson.

--Sran