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Gonzo
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That is my interpretation too.
Starship Size Argument™ thread
- Thread starter WarpFactorZ
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That is my interpretation too.
Look at the airlock on the neck-pylon, the door is at least as high as the windows on the neck, which in turn are at least as high as the larger windows you can see here on the saucer.
It's reasonable to assume that the saucer can be, at the rim, as high as five standard-height decks.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xihd/trekxihd1008.jpg
Since some of us think we see two, it isn't as clear as you think. I think your bias may be playing tricks on you.
Analysing pixelated pictures is notoriously unreliable.
Would you mind answering my question about the shuttlebay, please ?
Except no one here has claimed it was "conclusively established" or "canon." There is no official source backing up the claim of four or five decks in the saucer, and no one has cited such or claimed that it is official. What we are doing is providing visual evidence to support our point of view.
What has been established by the designers and in multiple official sources however, is the revised length of the movie Enterprise (which would be big enough to allow for four or five decks in the saucer rim), and you refuse to even acknowledge those sources, and cling to the obviously untrue 300 meter length because of... what? Tradition? It's a new movie series set in an alternate universe, so it's not as if the old Enterprise has vanished from existence or anything. Honestly, I don't understand why you consider it such a big deal.
You know, I wouldn't even particularly care if you just expressed your view and left it at that, but you keep making these conclusive declarations that "the argument is over!" and "this settles it" when nothing of the sort has happened, and you keep telling everyone to go off and do the work for you when you are the one making the extraordinary claims that need to be backed up with more evidence.
WarpFactorZ is clearly getting a huge kick out of trolling all of you.
But that's the thing. It's taking nearly zero effort to correct him, it's obvious from the start he wasn't going to change his mind, and he doesn't actually seem to be enjoying it that much. So trolling he might be, but it's the weakest effort I've seen in months.
Please don't accuse anyone of trolling. He's allowed to disagree, and we're allowed to question why he considers it so important, but we're not allowed to make accusations of trolling.
Still disagree. Looks to me like a single corridor with enough room for one above and two below.I have had a closer look and it may in fact be 2 floors, I have used the top picture you posted Locutusofbored and I have added highlights to show the floors (amateurish using paint I know).
I should have made the writing bigger as well but you get the idea. If you save it to PC and then zoom in you can see it clearly.
WarpFactorZ, I'm pretty sure I've asked before that you not hotlink images from sites which are not yours. Images posted inline should be hosted on a website or image-sharing account which is registered to you. I've removed the image in your first post quoted above and the second (as can be seen) has been blocked from the host server end. Please don't do this again.
Quite so. For things which need to be brought to the attention of the moderators, the button should be used:
I think we just need ILM/Paramount/Bad Robot to release an official cutaway ASAP. And will end this size debate.
*Unless some internal people at ILM/Paramount/Bad Robot aren't 100% sure themselves.
Heck, with just the story lines from both of the Abrams movies, you could have accomplished just about everything on my tine-tiny Enterprise.
*Unless some internal people at ILM/Paramount/Bad Robot aren't 100% sure themselves.
Heck, with just the story lines from both of the Abrams movies, you could have accomplished just about everything on my tine-tiny Enterprise.
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Well at least it would quell them down to low grunting murmurs.
33 pages over the span of a month and this guy *still* thinks nuE is only 300m? My advice is to give up trying to convince him. Just smile, nod, then turn back to your paper.
Anyway, I'm shocked that in the time divergence discussion, no one has brought up the Borg crash in the arctic that was discovered in that one episode of Enterprise. *That* is the divergence point. The discovery of the Borg 200+ years before Earth/the Federation was supposed to have known about them spurred the engineering projects to skip the dinky stuff like whatever came between the NX class and the Constitution in the prime timeline, and inflated the size of the Connie herself. In fact, even though we never see the Daedalus class alluded to at the end of Enterprise (the "Warp 7" ship), I'm sure that even that would have been worked over by the timeline contamination. IIRC, the prime Daedalus was barely capable of warp 4. The warp 5 project was funded mostly under the assumption that there may have been some truth in old Zefram's drunken ramblings. The discovery and subsequent dealings with the crashed Borg must've scared the hell out of Starfleet to the point of overdriving their designs to the point of being really very large.
Then again, the Xindi attack and Xindi threat didn't help ease Starfleet's peace of mind, but it sure did spur on ship tech research and development.
Anyway, I'm shocked that in the time divergence discussion, no one has brought up the Borg crash in the arctic that was discovered in that one episode of Enterprise. *That* is the divergence point. The discovery of the Borg 200+ years before Earth/the Federation was supposed to have known about them spurred the engineering projects to skip the dinky stuff like whatever came between the NX class and the Constitution in the prime timeline, and inflated the size of the Connie herself. In fact, even though we never see the Daedalus class alluded to at the end of Enterprise (the "Warp 7" ship), I'm sure that even that would have been worked over by the timeline contamination. IIRC, the prime Daedalus was barely capable of warp 4. The warp 5 project was funded mostly under the assumption that there may have been some truth in old Zefram's drunken ramblings. The discovery and subsequent dealings with the crashed Borg must've scared the hell out of Starfleet to the point of overdriving their designs to the point of being really very large.
Then again, the Xindi attack and Xindi threat didn't help ease Starfleet's peace of mind, but it sure did spur on ship tech research and development.
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Not neccesarily. The IDW comic series suggests that there was a starship Enterprise in service immediately before the brand new ship that Pike received. We never actually saw this older ship, but it was commanded by Captain Robert April and was implied to be a short-range survey ship carrying out exactly the kinds of missions that Kirk and crew would have in the original series. I'd bet that some events set in motion by the Narada's attack lead to the decommissioning of the smaller Enterprise much earlier than it otherwise would have and the construction of the larger design ten to twenty years sooner than it would have in the prime timeline.
Which leads us to an interesting point. There's no evidence whatsoever for the existence of the Xindi anywhere in the Federation in the 23rd or 24th centuries. I'd almost believe that in the Prime Timeline the Xindi are actually extinct and that they are only alive in the alternate timeline that suffered extensive tinkering from TCW factions like the Sphere Builders. This would, if anything, explain the unusually large alien contingent on the Enterprise in the Abrams timeline (hell, it might even explain Madeline; she could pass for a Xindi Reptillian, or possibly just a female version of one, or even just the JJ Abrams re-imagining of one).
Crazy Eddie,
We did see April's Enterprise. It looked like Kirk's Enterprise, only smaller.
Considering how many species have time travel capability, and considering how many Federation starship captains have managed to change time, I think its impossible to judge what is the original timeline, if there ever existed one, and, in a real world perspective, these changes can be used to justify and rationalize any incontinuities in the franchise.
We did see April's Enterprise. It looked like Kirk's Enterprise, only smaller.
Considering how many species have time travel capability, and considering how many Federation starship captains have managed to change time, I think its impossible to judge what is the original timeline, if there ever existed one, and, in a real world perspective, these changes can be used to justify and rationalize any incontinuities in the franchise.
Well, if April had an Enterprise, and his was, I assume, the 300-meter size certain people are so fond of, wouldn't *that* ship be of the Constitution class? Or was there a plaque or sign that says this Enterprise is a Connie? Besides, why would they decommission a class of ship that can only be, at maximum, 30 years old?
Unless technology in the nuUniverse progresses even faster than it did in the prime universe. Actually, considering the Vengeance and her WORKING transwarp drive, not only are they progressing faster, their tech works better.
Unless technology in the nuUniverse progresses even faster than it did in the prime universe. Actually, considering the Vengeance and her WORKING transwarp drive, not only are they progressing faster, their tech works better.
How did you figure it was smaller ?
G
Gonzo
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I like the fact that there is working transwarp in the new films, it opens up a lot more story possibilities.
I am hoping that the year between the capture of Khan and the rechristening of the Enterprise will mean some nice upgrades have been installed. Possibly even transwarp as it has been perfected on the Vengeance, a few of those Bo***ck phaser turrets wouldn't go amiss either.
The tech has already been tested via the Vengeance so no reason not to use them on the Enterprise as it is plenty big enough in this timeline to carry them.
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