First Contact alternate timeline

[F. King Daniel]

Watch The Original Series, Animated Series and old movies where they visit the rim of the galaxy twice, the centre of the galaxy twice and cover 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4. Now watch Star Trek: Voyager, where their fastest ship would take 75 years to cross 70,000 light years if they could maintain their maximum speed of warp 9.975.

Nothing in nuTrek is as big a fudamental change as that is. Much of TOS is impossible Voyager's framework. And yet they directly cross Voyager over with STVI in "Flashback". IMO if you can do that, then nuTrek most definitely can split off from the PrimeTrek universe in 2233.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Watch The Original Series, Animated Series and old movies where they visit the rim of the galaxy twice, the centre of the galaxy twice and cover 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4. Now watch Star Trek: Voyager, where their fastest ship would take 75 years to cross 70,000 light years if they could maintain their maximum speed of warp 9.975.

Nothing in nuTrek is as big a fudamental change as that is. Much of TOS is impossible Voyager's framework. And yet they directly cross Voyager over with STVI in "Flashback". IMO if you can do that, then nuTrek most definitely can split off from the PrimeTrek universe in 2233.

I never considered VOY "Flashback" to be canon due largely to Dmitri Valtane being shown alive and well at the end of TUC (1991) but killed off in Flashback (1996). If you're going to do a fill in the void episode you could at least make sure all the material lines up with what existed before.


Another thing that supports the alternate timeline theory is what we see in ENT. Specifically the Xindi and Suliban races. From real world stand point and from canon of the show before ENT. That being TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, we the audience and the characters of each series had never encountered or seen either the Suliban or Xindi races. However both races make up the fabric of the ENT era. Why is that?


Because of the Temporal Cold War. First Contact with the Suliban was made because Future Guy from the 28th century used time travel and technology to rewrite history in his favor. First contact with the Xindi was made because the Sphere Builders of the 26th century used time travel and technology to supplant existing history and rewrite it in their favor. We can't say first contact or any contact with these races was predestination because they were pawns or person from the future.

History and the timelines are like open drafts papers on Microsoft word. Then you have forces/persons who get behind the comp and begin revising and editing to suit their purposes. Future Guy (ENT TCW), The Sphere Builders (ENT Xindi), The Borg(FC), The Krenim (VOY Year Of Hell), Q and Picard (TNG AGT), Arne Darvin (DS9 TATA), Kirk and crew (TVH), Kes (VOY Fury). There are more examples but with these compared to what we see in FC, there is enough evidence to suggest that Cochrane succeeded his warp flight the first without any help or delay from the future. However the Borg having future knowledge and the means to change what they considered a vulnerable point in history, sought to change it in their favor. Which they did, just like how Future Guy destroyed the 29th century Earth by preventing the NX-01's mission. However both these revisions of history were retconned by the actions of NX-01 crew and the ENT-E crew.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Specifically the Xindi and Suliban races. From real world stand point and from canon of the show before ENT. That being TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, we the audience and the characters of each series had never encountered or seen either the Suliban or Xindi races. However both races make up the fabric of the ENT era. Why is that?

Because the Xindi and Suliban were not even thought of by the writers of TOS through VOY.

Also, the Federation is big.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

With an alternate timeline of events you have a degree of plausible deniability. In regards to the canon of the show and what we the audience know to be true. Since ENT is a prequel series it walked a tightrope of facts and sometimes contradicts what we know to be true from the series that preceded it. First contact with the Ferengi and Romulan cloaking devices being the biggest goofs by the ENT writers. Keeping the facts straight was compounded and made harder with the TCW and the different factions all trying to rewrite history in their favor and using races we the audience had never heard of to do it.

Creatively this is a clever thing to do if you can do it well. But the ENT writers didn't have a complete direction for where to take it so it kind of fizzled out and settled for being a post 9/11 allegory. It a lot of ways ENT resembles the current Trek movie franchise under Abrams. While Abrams completely shed the skin of previous continuity as far as look of the future and chain of events with races. Berman and Braga (from commentary's and interviews) were intent on keeping it all together as one big stitched together universe. Personally I think they should've used ENT as a full sequel to FC and have the prime universe be the TOS through VOY Endgame where B&B ended the 24th century series.

 

[Belz...]

I do not agree that there is an alternate timeline in which ENT takes place. ENT is in the same timeline as the rest of TOS, TNG, DSN, and VOY.

Agreed, I really have no issues whatsoever with the retcon of bringing an earlier Enterprise into the timeline or its design lineage.

Aren't those two statements contradictory ? Or did you mean that there's only one timeline but it's been changed ?

 

[Kevman7987]

What is important to remember is that Trek is a fictional media franchise. The rules of time-travel work whatever way the writer decided it does. Star Trek has used both the "changes to a single timeline" & "changes create alternate timelines" depending completely upon what the writers have decided and what makes rational, logical sense to fans.

Disagree if you want, but I am of these opinions:

1. Time travel affects only the original timeline unless specifically stated by the writers through an episode or film.

2. Time travel issues band-aid themselves because, as stated by Spock in City on the Edge, "time is fluid, like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash." As long as it wasn't some major thing like a death that wasn't supposed to happen, the water doesn't look any different "downstream."

3. Enterprise naming conventions are just a normal (not thought up during previous series) continuity error (Enterprise was retired before the Federation formed and is thus not the "first starship to bear the name")

4. nuTrek takes place within a different continuity entirely. Nero & Spock-a-cola Classic didn't just move backwards through time, but sideways as well into the past of an alternate universe entirely. One where things looked different & smelled different already (explaining why Benedict Cumberbatch is now a white guy and Starbuck is female). Where the past has not yet been affected by people from the future.

4A. No one from a different, "possible" future changed this universe's past either. No Enterprise-A crew in 1980's San Francisco, Enterprise-E crew in 2063 Montana ,etc. This universe has unfolded as it did originally. So far*

*changes will eventually be written in by nuTrek's writers.

 

[I am not Spock]

I , too, think the universe depicted in Trek 09 and Into Darkness, is a parallel universe from the beginning. Long before Nero's incursion. It's one of the countless universes in Trek (as seen in Parallels, TNG). With similar, but different, people.

It solves the continuity issues people have with the new films

However, I think Enterprise is in the same universe as TOS, TAS, the movies 1-10, and TNG, DS9, and VOY. First Contact didn't affect the timeline. The NX-01 was always called Enterprise.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

You know we could always take the piss and assume ENT is a potential past of several different universes. Most notably NuTrek and the curious TATV which seems to take place during TNG Pegasus despite them not lining up symmetrically. Riker and Troi's age difference, the way events unfolded in Pegasus differ from the way they were shown in TATV, Troi's hair, Riker's decision to confide in Troi in TATV the way not shown in Pegasus, other things that make you want to punch a hole in a wall at B&B's lazy attempt to float TATV as the same story as Pegasus. Maybe in this timeline the ENT-D was never destroyed like it was shown in GEN. The Next Gen crew's adventures happened at later points in their lives.

Why couldn't they just have TATV be set post-NEM if they wanted to bring back Riker and Troi?

This is a hypothetical "taking the piss" scenario mind you.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

You know we could take the piss even further with the alternate timeline theory. Consider with what we see in STID.

Spoiler: text on button

"Khan being a British white male, instead of a Sikh Indian male like he was in TOS/TWOK."

The whole parallel universe/slide timeline thing may have even more weight than we thought. Haha

 

[Oso Blanco]

Why couldn't they just have TATV be set post-NEM if they wanted to bring back Riker and Troi?

I've asked myself that question a thousand times ... a short glimpse at the Titan would have brought a nice closure to TNG.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Why couldn't they just have TATV be set post-NEM if they wanted to bring back Riker and Troi?

I've asked myself that question a thousand times ... a short glimpse at the Titan would have brought a nice closure to TNG.

I Know right? It's so simple just make the Titan a galaxy glass ship or at least say it has the same interior as a galaxy class.

I forever maintain TATV is a lazy, poor and mean spirited episode.

 

[jespah]

...

I forever maintain TATV is a lazy, poor and mean spirited episode.

Hear, here.

Perhaps it was toned down. Maybe they wanted to kill off Porthos, but were voted down by the PETA-fearing brass (or Windy, Breezy and Prada had a better agent than Connor Trinneer's).

 

[F. King Daniel]

You know we could take the piss even further with the alternate timeline theory. Consider with what we see in STID.

Spoiler: text on button

"Khan being a British white male, instead of a Sikh Indian male like he was in TOS/TWOK."

The whole parallel universe/slide timeline thing may have even more weight than we thought. Haha

Spoiler: MASSIVE MOVIE SPOILER

Khan was white in Wrath of Khan. Furthermore, his followers magically changed to universally white and blond. Add the big Chekov discontinuity, and I'm afraid WoK can't possibly be the same timeline as TOS
visual aid
Or maybe it's easier to simply call a retcon and retcon?

 

[jespah]

Vitiligo.

 

[Yanks]

...

I forever maintain TATV is a lazy, poor and mean spirited episode.

Hear, here.

Perhaps it was toned down. Maybe they wanted to kill off Porthos, but were voted down by the PETA-fearing brass (or Windy, Breezy and Prada had a better agent than Connor Trinneer's).

What is TATV?

 

[Mach5]

What is TATV?

Yanks from StarTrek.com forums?

LOL, you should know, it's your favorite episode, dude.

 

[Kevman7987]

What is TATV?

These Are The Voyages... The series finale of Enterprise.

 

[Mach5]

What is TATV?

These Are The Voyages... The series finale of Enterprise.

FAIL

 

[Oso Blanco]

Spoiler: MASSIVE SPOILER

Khan was white in Wrath of Khan. Furthermore, his followers magically changed to universally white and blond. Add the big Chekov discontinuity, and I'm afraid WoK can't possibly be the same timeline as TOS

Spoiler: SPOILER

Khan could have met Chekov off screen, and his skin color could have changed because of the environmental conditions on Ceti Alpha V. But you know that very well, don't you?

 

[R. Star]

Spoiler: MASSIVE SPOILER

Khan was white in Wrath of Khan. Furthermore, his followers magically changed to universally white and blond. Add the big Chekov discontinuity, and I'm afraid WoK can't possibly be the same timeline as TOS

Spoiler: SPOILER

Khan could have met Chekov off screen, and his skin color could have changed because of the environmental conditions on Ceti Alpha V. But you know that very well, don't you?

Spoiler: SPOILER

I seem to recall Walter Koenig joking in an interview the reason Khan was so pissy towards Chekov in TWoK was because in Space Speed Chekov wouldn't let Khan use the rest room off screen.