Dumb questions about Star Trek Into Darkness (Spoilers)

[jadcox@mindspring.com]

My wife I were confused about a couple of plot points, and were hoping someone could clarify?

1.)

Spoiler: Question about transporters

How was Admiral Marcus able to beam Carol off the Enterprise? Wasn't one of the problems that they couldn't transport? Did we miss them lowering shields?

2.)

Spoiler: Question about other options

Why was it necessary to go after Khan to get more magic blood when they had 72 more people on ice? We assumed they weren't sure the others had the same capability, or would survive, and didn't want Khan to escape before they found out? Or was there another reason? Did we miss a line?

Thanks, and sorry if this is painfully obvious.

 

[foreverton]

Regarding number two, according to Bob Orci in a post last night to trekmovie, McCoy's line about not knowing the proper procedure to wake an augment from cryo explained it. He wasn't willing to take that risk just to unfreeze another augment, but was when Kirk's life was on the line. He went for Khan's blood since it was proven to work by bringing the tribble back to life.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yep, McCoy knew what Khan's blood could do. Any idea that everyone else on ice was identical genetically to their leader was an unproven one.

 

[BigMovieGeek]

As for question one, I didn't actually notice that point, but I would put it down to the Vengeance being super cool and advanced.

 

[Kemaiku]

As for Carol, one of the disadvantages of visual communication, she was broadcasting her location on the bridge for them to lock onto her based on the feed.

As for the shields, they were failing or barely there most of the scenes after taking fire, probably weak enough to forcibly beam someone if they had a direct idea where they were (i.e. Carol) but BSing Khans location meant the Vengeance wasn't able to discern him properly.

 

[jadcox@mindspring.com]

Ah. Thanks.

 

[Tosk]

SPOILERS

Regarding number two, according to Bob Orci in a post last night to trekmovie, McCoy's line about not knowing the proper procedure to wake an augment from cryo explained it. He wasn't willing to take that risk just to unfreeze another augment, but was when Kirk's life was on the line. He went for Khan's blood since it was proven to work by bringing the tribble back to life.

Which doesn't make much sense, really. McCoy took one augment out of cryo anyway, why not just try his blood while you're at it?

To be honest, I'm not a fan of the "magic blood" plot point. It seems more like it was an easy out for killing/resurrecting Kirk and they figured, "Well they never specifically said that original Khan didn't have magic blood, so..." His blood helping heal sickness I can kinda go with. Re-animating a corpse? Meh, not so much.

 

[mrpopsicleman]

Marcus could have know the shield frequency or prefix code of the Enterprise in order to beam Carol over. He was a rather high ranking officer that would either know or have the ability to obtain such things. Honestly though, when they were under attack, it didn't look like their shields were doing much shielding against the evil Excelsior wannabe's weapons anyway.

 

[lawman]

Still pretty fuzzy plot points, if they call for this kind of ex post facto fan rationalization. The bridge scene was very clear about the fact that shields were still up, and one of the basics of Trek has always been that you can't transport through shields.

(Hence the bizarre bit in Trek'09 where Nero conveniently left his shields down while attacking, b/c otherwise Kirk and Spock wouldn't have been able to beam aboard...)

As for the blood thing, I can grant that a little more leeway. Time was of the essence, and it was presumably a lot quicker to work with the resource at hand than to defrost and test a new one. Still, it wasn't really the *only* option as McCoy made it out to be...

 

[AlxxlA]

Regarding number two, according to Bob Orci in a post last night to trekmovie, McCoy's line about not knowing the proper procedure to wake an augment from cryo explained it. He wasn't willing to take that risk just to unfreeze another augment, but was when Kirk's life was on the line. He went for Khan's blood since it was proven to work by bringing the tribble back to life.

If he doesn't know how to operate a cryotube, why was he able to get the other Augment out and Kirk in so quickly?

 

[throwback]

I feel Bob Orci is ignorant. These people are in an induced coma state. Doctors in our contemporary era can take blood samples from comatose patients without having to wake them. And, considering this is the future, I would think their ability to decode the genetic structure could be done in minutes. A greater concern I have is that blood type has to match blood type. If it doesn't, there is a probability that the bodies' immune system will attack the new blood.

It is possible to beam through shields. Miles O'Brien was able to beam through the shields of the Phoenix, because he knew the frequency. Shields go through a cycle, and, at the end of each cycle, there is a brief pause. Time the transport just right, and a person can get onto a ship.

Is it my imagination, or are the transporters in this new Star Trek slower than the older transporters? And, is it my imagination, or was Carol Marcus experiencing pain when her father was attempting to beam her off the Enterprise?

 

[AlxxlA]

And, is it my imagination, or was Carol Marcus experiencing pain when her father was attempting to beam her off the Enterprise?

I interpreted it as fear. Being beamed without expecting it is probably quite violating, not to mention that she's being kidnapped by her evil father whose only reason for not killing the entire crew of the Enterprise was her presence there.

 

[seven14]

Spock Prime on New Vulcan

I suppose I didn't get this with the last movie, but Spock Prime could not get back to his own time-line correct? The reason New Spock (sorry for these names) can speak with him is because they are now existing in the same time? Does Sarek know his son is living on New Vulcan with him? I don't know how I thought Spock Prime went back to his own time-line.

 

[BritishSeaPower]

I was a bit confused by the inconsistent (and pervasive problem, as it effects Trek XI too) use of beaming people who were moving versus people who are stationary. Harrison and Spock are on a moving vessel but are "Moving too much" to be beamed, yet Chekov could beam two guys who were falling at hundreds of miles a minute in the previous movie. Carol runs away from the beaming process, either out of fear or an attempt to not be beamed, yet still was beamed intact when the "falling" Amanda Grayson couldn't be beamed even though they were already locked on. Uhura can be beamed on to a fast moving object while not being subject to the object moving too far ahead of her and falling to her death.

Yeah, yeah... plot needs and everything but it was a little bit of an issue I noticed. Doesn't really detract from the plot in anyway, just a... thing.

 

[AvBaur]

I believe there is no definitive answer for either question in the movie, fan theories notwithstanding.

 

[Bengoshi2000]

Regarding Transporter Problems: I assumed that transporter beam shield penetrating tech was part of the Dreadnaught's superiority.

As far as Checkov not able to beam Spock/Khan off of the moving platform, he made a statement earlier (when Spock asked him to beam Khan off of the wreckage of the Dreadnaught) that the transporter systems were still having issues.

 

[Belz...]

I feel Bob Orci is ignorant. These people are in an induced coma state. Doctors in our contemporary era can take blood samples from comatose patients without having to wake them.

I think the issue is that they didn't know if the other Augments had that kind of ability, and there was no time to test it.

As for number one, I don't remember the transporter being off-line.

I suppose I didn't get this with the last movie, but Spock Prime could not get back to his own time-line correct?

Where did you get that idea ?

 

[Nightowl1701]

From Alan Dean Foster's novelization:

“McCoy to bridge. I can’t reach Spock from sickbay. Listen to me. Khan—I need Khan alive. You get that murderous sonuvabitch back on this ship right now.” He took a deep breath. “I think he can save Kirk.”
As he closed the communication, he found Carol gazing at him intently. “What about bringing one of the other members of Khan’s crew out of cryosleep? Even if they don’t revive... properly...it’s not their opinions we need.”
McCoy looked toward the prone form of Kirk lying motionless on the gurney, where he continued to be prepped and monitored by the team of medical technicians.
“Too risky. I think this might work with Khan. I don’t know how much alike he and his crew are, and I don’t have time to find out. If there’s even the slightest unresolved difference between their respective physiologies, then we might be doing nothing but wasting our time and what little, if any, Jim has left. And I have to have Khan alive, because I don’t know what death might do to his body...or the viability of its respective components.” He shook his head in dismay. “It’s Khan—or nothing.”

 

[seven14]

I feel Bob Orci is ignorant. These people are in an induced coma state. Doctors in our contemporary era can take blood samples from comatose patients without having to wake them.

I think the issue is that they didn't know if the other Augments had that kind of ability, and there was no time to test it.

As for number one, I don't remember the transporter being off-line.

I suppose I didn't get this with the last movie, but Spock Prime could not get back to his own time-line correct?

Where did you get that idea ?

No, just confused as to how Spock could so readily call up Spock Prime...is this not correct? Spock asked Uhura to hail New Vulcan and then he was speaking to Spock Prime on the monitor. Sitting and watching the movie, I thought they were speaking through time lol but later I realized that Spock Prime is on New Vulcan---he exists in his own time-line until he took off to aid the Romulans and was stranded on the ice planet--from then on --hiding from his father Sarek, I believe Spock Prime has to now live the rest of his life in the same time-line as New Spock. I'd love to be put to rights if I'm just making up a completed new story in my mind

 

[SonicRanger]

I was a bit confused by the inconsistent (and pervasive problem, as it effects Trek XI too) use of beaming people who were moving versus people who are stationary. Harrison and Spock are on a moving vessel but are "Moving too much" to be beamed, yet Chekov could beam two guys who were falling at hundreds of miles a minute in the previous movie. Carol runs away from the beaming process, either out of fear or an attempt to not be beamed, yet still was beamed intact when the "falling" Amanda Grayson couldn't be beamed even though they were already locked on. Uhura can be beamed on to a fast moving object while not being subject to the object moving too far ahead of her and falling to her death.

Yeah, yeah... plot needs and everything but it was a little bit of an issue I noticed. Doesn't really detract from the plot in anyway, just a... thing.

Transporters almost always transport between moving perspectives. Orbiting starships and planets are not stationary bodies and are probably moving much faster relative to one another than that barge.