Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Station

[FrontierTrek]

Hello my fellow Niners!

I did a great on-camera interview with Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Behr last year which we've just made public at TrekCore this week. Part 1 mainly focuses on their introduction to Star Trek with TNG, but in Part 2 we discuss the move to DS9 and there are some very interesting revelations from Behr:

* Michael Piller originally told Behr the premise for DS9, describing it as "edgier, funnier, grittier, more character driven" and then said after 2 years he would hand the show over to Behr.
* Immediately after the pilot, people were saying "Make the show more TNG-like." "don't make it so dark"
* At the end of Season 1, the studio said "Should we put engines on the space station and fly it through the wormhole? Do we need the character of Bashir?"
* Behr describes the show being on a knife edge at one point, but luckily they were able to weather it.

The full interview is here:
Part 1 - http://trekcore.com/blog/2013/05/exclusive-ron-moore-ira-steven-behr-interview-part-i/
Part 2 - http://trekcore.com/blog/2013/05/exclusive-ron-moore-ira-steven-behr-interview-part-ii/

 

[C.E. Evans]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

To be fair, I think the studio saw where the ratings were going after the end of Season 1 and realized that many fans of TNG had not embraced DS9...

 

[HaventGotALife]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

Wow, I still love hearing about the show behind the show. Great stuff! Thanks for the interviews!

 

[Dream]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

To be fair, I think the studio saw where the ratings were going after the end of Season 1 and realized that many fans of TNG had not embraced DS9...

The ratings already dropped huge in numbers in the second episode from the Pilot. However, it is common for ratings to fall the longer it goes on.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

To be fair, I think the studio saw where the ratings were going after the end of Season 1 and realized that many fans of TNG had not embraced DS9...

Yeah, but if creatively they hadn't fought for it, something closer to Voyager may have killed the Star Trek franchise. They were flat-wrong creatively.

No Bashir? No Starfleet arrogance? No James Bond take? No genetically-engineered genius? It wouldn't have been the same without him.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

Behr still has that odd purple goatee and Moore looks more like George Lucas with each passing year. Wow.

 

[R. Star]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

Well, DS9 was paying attention to their audience's feedback. After season 1 Bashir -was- the unpopular character. They made a concerted effort to make him better, but considering pulling the plug on him was bound to come up. I think it worked out well.

 

[Phily B]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

It really confuses me why the studios kept the "make it like TNG" mantra for so long, it eventually killed the franchise on television. I think a show like DS9 would be stellar in todays climate.

 

[R. Star]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

It really confuses me why the studios kept the "make it like TNG" mantra for so long, it eventually killed the franchise on television. I think a show like DS9 would be stellar in todays climate.

All things considered... DS9's staff wasn't -that- much darker than TNG's... what made the show great was the support staff and the continuous story that tested our heroes resolve.

Can you really imagine DS9 running for seven years without Dukat, Rom, Nog, Weyoun, Martok, Damar, Zek, Brunt, Ziyal and the rest of the support cast? These people are what gave DS9 life and drama.

 

[NKemp3]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

It really confuses me why the studios kept the "make it like TNG" mantra for so long, it eventually killed the franchise on television. I think a show like DS9 would be stellar in todays climate.

All things considered... DS9's staff wasn't -that- much darker than TNG's... what
.

DS9 WAS much darker than TNG. That's in part because you couldn't get more "lighter" than TNG....well, not outside of Stargate. TNG was great but in many ways it was more rosy and upbeat and positive than TOS. DS9 on the other hand was less feel-good because so many of its characters were shaded in darkness. Not to mention in its final two seasons there was an all-out war taking place in the AQ.

 

[NKemp3]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

Two things I will never forgive the bean-counters at Paramount for in regards to DS9:

1)Not allowing the Dominion occupation of DS9 to last a few more episodes at the beginning of season six.
2)Not allowing the ENTIRE seventh season to be strictly continuous like the last nine eps of the seventh season (The Final Chapter). Boy, that would have been something.

 

[R. Star]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

To be fair... even letting the Dominion occupy DS9 "at all" was a giant risk in the realms of Trekdom. I remember the first time I watched a "Time to Stand" I just got shivers from Dukat giving the Captain's Log.

Sure it would've been great if it lasted longer, but... well they can be forgiven that at the time the fans wanted a payoff to that story arc. DS9 set the standard in Trek for that continuous story telling. Could it have been better? Sure... but it's what we got and it was great. I wish Enterprise had taken a page from the DS9 book.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

To be fair... even letting the Dominion occupy DS9 "at all" was a giant risk in the realms of Trekdom. I remember the first time I watched a "Time to Stand" I just got shivers from Dukat giving the Captain's Log.

Sure it would've been great if it lasted longer, but... well they can be forgiven that at the time the fans wanted a payoff to that story arc. DS9 set the standard in Trek for that continuous story telling. Could it have been better? Sure... but it's what we got and it was great. I wish Enterprise had taken a page from the DS9 book.

"A Time to Stand." That brings back memories. It was the first year that I had an internet connection (at the local library, couldn't afford a computer). I printed out pictures from First Contact and Insurrection. And some site had cracked how long the Dominion would occupy the station (six episodes). I also learned about Worf's wedding on that site. First Star Trek spoilers. They even had whole scripts online. It was fantastic! I didn't usually read the scripts. God, what was that, like, what 1997?

 

[R. Star]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

To be fair... even letting the Dominion occupy DS9 "at all" was a giant risk in the realms of Trekdom. I remember the first time I watched a "Time to Stand" I just got shivers from Dukat giving the Captain's Log.

Sure it would've been great if it lasted longer, but... well they can be forgiven that at the time the fans wanted a payoff to that story arc. DS9 set the standard in Trek for that continuous story telling. Could it have been better? Sure... but it's what we got and it was great. I wish Enterprise had taken a page from the DS9 book.

"A Time to Stand." That brings back memories. It was the first year that I had an internet connection (at the local library, couldn't afford a computer). I printed out pictures from First Contact and Insurrection. And some site had cracked how long the Dominion would occupy the station (six episodes). I also learned about Worf's wedding on that site. First Star Trek spoilers. They even had whole scripts online. It was fantastic! I didn't usually read the scripts. God, what was that, like, what 1997?

LOL, we were so much more innocent back then. I had the internet but it never even occurred to me to look for spoilers! Though to be fair, I was only 14 at the time!

 

[TheSubCommander]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

What is ironic is Stargate Atlantis DID move their "station" (the Atlantis city), and DID kill off their doctor, and that is when the show really went south. Good thing they kept Bashir and even though they did end up putting thrusters on DS9, it didn't move to a different planet system, otherwise it might have ended up like SGA!

 

[bullethead]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

Two things I will never forgive the bean-counters at Paramount for in regards to DS9:

1)Not allowing the Dominion occupation of DS9 to last a few more episodes at the beginning of season six.
2)Not allowing the ENTIRE seventh season to be strictly continuous like the last nine eps of the seventh season (The Final Chapter). Boy, that would have been something.

No thanks. Stargate Universe pulled that off and it didn't end well (although that was due to weak writing more than the weakness of the idea). That's a style more suited for marathon viewing, because it mitigates the lack of closure/resolution in each episode, plus it doesn't give the audience leeway to miss an episode here and there without missing big chunks of story. In an era without streaming services like Hulu to catch people up, doing that would've been suicide.

 

[NKemp3]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

To be fair... even letting the Dominion occupy DS9 "at all" was a giant risk in the realms of Trekdom. I remember the first time I watched a "Time to Stand" I just got shivers from Dukat giving the Captain's Log.

Sure it would've been great if it lasted longer, but... well they can be forgiven that at the time the fans wanted a payoff to that story arc. DS9 set the standard in Trek for that continuous story telling. Could it have been better? Sure... but it's what we got and it was great. I wish Enterprise had taken a page from the DS9 book.

"A Time to Stand." That brings back memories. It was the first year that I had an internet connection (at the local library, couldn't afford a computer). I printed out pictures from First Contact and Insurrection. And some site had cracked how long the Dominion would occupy the station (six episodes). I also learned about Worf's wedding on that site. First Star Trek spoilers. They even had whole scripts online. It was fantastic! I didn't usually read the scripts. God, what was that, like, what 1997?

Ah, memories! I don't know of a site that had had entire scripts online but I do recall those great world wide web Trek sites that I discovered back aound this same time when I was being introduced to the internet in college. I can't recall all the names but my favorite was probably The Great Link. When it came to Trek discussions however I loved the forums on Psi Phi and the AOL Trek boards.

Anyhow it would have been common knowledge by the time "A Time to Stand" aired that there would be a six episode arc of the Dominion occupation of DS9.

 

[NKemp3]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

Two things I will never forgive the bean-counters at Paramount for in regards to DS9:

1)Not allowing the Dominion occupation of DS9 to last a few more episodes at the beginning of season six.
2)Not allowing the ENTIRE seventh season to be strictly continuous like the last nine eps of the seventh season (The Final Chapter). Boy, that would have been something.

No thanks. Stargate Universe pulled that off and it didn't end well (although that was due to weak writing more than the weakness of the idea). That's a style more suited for marathon viewing, because it mitigates the lack of closure/resolution in each episode, plus it doesn't give the audience leeway to miss an episode here and there without missing big chunks of story. In an era without streaming services like Hulu to catch people up, doing that would've been suicide.

I disagree. Of course I loved Stargate Universe which was more adult and therefore interesting to me than its silly, cartoon predecessors. I found that SGU season 2 was the most enjoyable space-based sci fi show since the days of DS9 and B5. It was like the new BSG without the overboard gloom-and-doom, with far more humor and far less tendency to go off-track. And speaking of Babylon 5 that was another example of a strictly-continuity based show and it worked splendidly. I didn't need marathon broadcasts or streaming to keep up with it just as I don't need that now for a heavy continuity show like Game of Thrones. Following it on a week-by-week basis was enough.

But going back to DS9, the seventh season had a lot of missed opportunities. Most of all it had a lot of filler and fair amount of dull stand-alone eps. The strongest part of the seventh season was the opening two parter (which picked up from DS9's final sp of season six and carried over to the third episode of season seven) and the Final Chapter. Is there any doubt that the Final Chapter (the last nine episodes/ten hours) of season seven gave the season its greates momentum and interesting developments with its use of strict-continuity? Imagine if the writers had the chance to do that all season long and gotten rid most of those disappointing Ezri eps. They could have scattered elements of those Ezri episodes throughout season seven as mere subplots in order to show her development and adjustment. Imagine if the The Siege of AR-558 had been spread out over three eps as a major storyline with other continuing storylines going on back on the station. Well, that would have worked for me at least. I trusted that team of writers and I'm sure they could have made it work. At the very least perhaps that would have allwed them to end the Dominion war a little earlier and allowed the last six eps to be dedicated to followup and taking care of other loose ends. (like whether Bajor would finally join the Federation).

 

[Kelthaz]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

Game of Thrones is adult. Stargate Universe was a horny teenager pretending to be an adult.

 

[NKemp3]

Re: Moore/Behr Interview: Studio wanted to get rid of Bashir/Move Stat

Game of Thrones is adult. Stargate Universe was a horny teenager pretending to be an adult.

What would that make TOS. A pre-schooler playing house? I realize some of you still haven't recovered from having "sex" introduced into the Stargate franchise and thus are still recovering from a traumatic experience. I get it. Nonetheless the conflict and dysfunction amongst the crew of SGU was still true to life and closer to adulthood than te Stargate franchise will ever get. I don't want to bog down a DS9 board in an argument about SGU, but I will say I have never been as embarrassed to be a sci fi fan than in the overly negative reaction to SGU attempting to make Stargate into something other than a Saturday morning cartoon. Oh, wait. There is a DS9 connection. SGU was dumped on by Stargate and sci fi fans the same way DS9 was dumped on by Star Trek and sci fi fans during its first few years.