How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

[Garrovick]

There were a lot of things I really liked about TOS-R. There were also a few things I didn't really like about TOS-R. I've got my copies of the remastered episodes to watch when I want to, and I also have my DVD box sets of the originals to watch when I want to. It's all good. Overall, I'm glad the remastering was done - the positives far outweigh the negatives.

 

[Masao]

I still have a pile of 2-episode videocassettes, as well as the regular flavor DVDs (and remastered season 2, for a completely selfish reason). So, both versions are out there for true fans (such as anyone that would post about Trek on a message board).

However, for the casual fan, who may be unable to get past the relatively primitive 1960s special effects, the remastered versions takes away an obstacle to their enjoying TOS for the stories, characters, and ideas. They might become ONE OF US. That's good, right?

 

[Amaris]

I still have some of my CBS clamshell Star Trek VHS tapes. They're old and worn, but I just can't bring myself to get rid of them.

 

[Mr_Homn]

I've mentioned it before, but I would have been fine with a simple cleaning of the film and reissue in HD.

but you CAN watch it that way on the blu rays. if you turn off the remastered effects on the blu ray you get to watch the original in hd quality. most of the time that's the only way i watch it. that would have been enough to sell me on it alone. but theres nothing wrong with having options.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I think TOS-R was just fine as it is. Now what they really need to do is a TAS-R. Full CGI. Get rid of the crappy 70's animation and go all-out.

Same here. And, I think that the studio behind ReBoot should do the honors.

But what I'd really like to see is a new animated series, with the same type of realistic (non-Pixar) CGI animation as TAS, as I've said before. Either than, or let's make a new traditional pen and ink cel animated show instead (this Japanese studio's recent adaptation of an American superhero's adventures shows a great direction to go in on that.)

I still have some of my CBS clamshell Star Trek VHS tapes. They're old and worn, but I just can't bring myself to get rid of them.

What will you do when those don't function anymore?

 

[BillJ]

I still have some of my CBS clamshell Star Trek VHS tapes. They're old and worn, but I just can't bring myself to get rid of them.

What will you do when those don't function anymore?

I imagine he'll be able to access the original versions on either DVD or Blu-ray. Or buy the series on Ebay or Amazon in either Betamax, VHS or Laserdisc.

 

[Amaris]

but you CAN watch it that way on the blu rays. if you turn off the remastered effects on the blu ray you get to watch the original in hd quality. most of the time that's the only way i watch it. that would have been enough to sell me on it alone. but theres nothing wrong with having options.

Oh, certainly. I'm just glad to have several options. I rather like the work done on the TOS-R episodes.

I still have some of my CBS clamshell Star Trek VHS tapes. They're old and worn, but I just can't bring myself to get rid of them.

What will you do when those don't function anymore?

Well, I watch the TOS-R episodes on Netflix, but I can always purchase the DVDs or Blu-Rays of the episodes.

I imagine he'll be able to access the original versions on either DVD or Blu-ray. Or buy the series on Ebay or Amazon in either Betamax, VHS or Laserdisc.

Yep!

 

[RandyS]

There were a lot of things I really liked about TOS-R. There were also a few things I didn't really like about TOS-R. I've got my copies of the remastered episodes to watch when I want to, and I also have my DVD box sets of the originals to watch when I want to. It's all good. Overall, I'm glad the remastering was done - the positives far outweigh the negatives.

I agree. I have both the 2004 original DVD's releases, and the 2008 remastered DVD's, and so, depending on what I'm in the mood for, I can see whichever version I want.

That said, there are actually, there were a few things I wish they'd changed that they didn't. Take "The Ultimate Computer", for example. I was disapointed that they didn't change at least one of Bob Wesley's fleet ships into a different starship class. Seeing a TOS-style Reliant, or Orberth, or something might have been interesting.

And, it's not like this is a George Lucas/Star Wars situation, where each change automatically super-ceds it's immediate predecessor, to become the "official version", and everything that came before is ignored.

 

[MrArcas]

I think they hit the balance between "adding new" and being faithful to the original videos. It certainly was a tricky tightrope to walk. Perhaps they erred a bit too much on the side of caution, but I'm still OK with the results. It scratched my itch

 

[Forbin]

1. Finally, the big fault of the remastered effects is that they frequently demonstrate that the new effects team didn't understand basic cinematography. Example: the battle sequence in Elaan of Troyius is a complete mess in terms of basic (and I mean Film Composition 101) directional continuity.

This is my biggest complaint too. Another example is the orbital shot of Apollo's hand holding the ship. Crappy composition - your eye doesn't know where to look to get the point of the shot.

 

[trevanian]

The thing is, at this point you've got LOTS of reference ... not just the original TOS shots, but also the ModernTrek era and other space films. For that matter, since most of this stuff is on a 2d plane, good compositional reference can be gotten from ship-at-sea stuff.

Screwing up the point of the visual in order to have a grain-free one that appeals to younger viewers seems like shooting oneself in the foot to avoid jogging, then complaining it takes too long to limp to the mailbox.

 

[Gojira]

I think TOS-R was just fine as it is. Now what they really need to do is a TAS-R. Full CGI. Get rid of the crappy 70's animation and go all-out.

I would LOVE to see that happen!

 

[Third Nacelle]

I'd like to see TAS remastered with better hand drawn animation (or CGI augmented hand animation), but full CGI would totally destroy the charm of it. Some of us prefer our cartoons one-dimensional

 

[Maurice]

1. Finally, the big fault of the remastered effects is that they frequently demonstrate that the new effects team didn't understand basic cinematography. Example: the battle sequence in Elaan of Troyius is a complete mess in terms of basic (and I mean Film Composition 101) directional continuity.

This is my biggest complaint too. Another example is the orbital shot of Apollo's hand holding the ship. Crappy composition - your eye doesn't know where to look to get the point of the shot.

You mean this mess?
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x02hd/whomournsforadonaishd0195a.jpg

I'd like to see TAS remastered with better hand drawn animation (or CGI augmented hand animation), but full CGI would totally destroy the charm of it. Some of us prefer our cartoons one-dimensional

One dimension is a straight line.

 

[JarodRussell]

Why not make a new physical model of the Ent and shoot her under similar lights and film grain, rather than CGI? Just do it with what is currently the best tech.

That's what they should have done. Also for replacement shots in TNG-R.

The shots they did with the physical 1701 model for the DS9 Tribble episode are a million times better than the best CGI shot in TOS-R.

 

[Third Nacelle]

1. Finally, the big fault of the remastered effects is that they frequently demonstrate that the new effects team didn't understand basic cinematography. Example: the battle sequence in Elaan of Troyius is a complete mess in terms of basic (and I mean Film Composition 101) directional continuity.

This is my biggest complaint too. Another example is the orbital shot of Apollo's hand holding the ship. Crappy composition - your eye doesn't know where to look to get the point of the shot.

You mean this mess?
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x02hd/whomournsforadonaishd0195a.jpg

I'd like to see TAS remastered with better hand drawn animation (or CGI augmented hand animation), but full CGI would totally destroy the charm of it. Some of us prefer our cartoons one-dimensional

One dimension is a straight line.

Maybe I like to cover my television with duct tape, leaving a gap one pixel wide.

You know what I meant

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The shots they did with the physical 1701 model for the DS9 Tribble episode are a million times better than the best CGI shot in TOS-R.

Agreed. There's no digital replacement for a physical, detailed body, and your example--compared to TOS-R--proves the point.

 

[trevanian]

Yeah, CITIZEN KANE has certainly lost its meaning down through the years because Ted Turner wasn't able to colorize it.

Art just IS. Interpretation of art is what changes over time. If you change the art to suit the interpretter, it isn't art anymore, it is masturbation. And I'm through listening to you lovelies jerk off over this.

Or you could act like a grown up and realize not everyone thinks the same way you do? Just a thought.

Here.. Here... see the fandamentalist at work..

Star Trek TOS is equated to

Citizen Kane

.. so in some opinions, a TV show designed to make MONEY first and foremost is equated as not just art, but HIGH art..
One can only think since Paramount's show competed with "Gomer Pyle USMC" and ended up battered in the ratings..to the point of cancellation, the point could be made that "Gomer Pyle USMC" was better art than Star Trek! After all, "Gomer Pyle USMC" was a success and made a LOT of money and Star Trek a failure...

but heck it's not like some can accept dissent (or Heresy if one prefers), as at that point those folks fit the very definition of fandamentalists..

Remember, someone started the name calling, and let it degenerate from there..right down to references to the KKK and now masturbation ..

Such witty comebacks..

Don't think I noticed this reply till now ... KANE is an ideal example not because of its status as a film classic, but because of a detail in Welles' contract -- one I'm not aware of being in the contract for any other film -- that basically said you couldn't change the look of the film after the fact ... I'm pretty sure Turner had already colorized when the legal folks told him he couldn't release it.

So this represents the kind of protection art forms deserve, to keep folks from tampering with them after the fact, which makes it completely relevant to a discussion of TOS-R, whatever you happen to think of TOS (or KANE's) merits. And as far as namecalling goes, hey, so the fuck what? I'm not the one advocating for giving kids crayolas at the art museum, which is basically what TOS-R amounts to at times.

It's funny to me that STAR WARS was selected for film preservation and yet look what GL did to it after that ...

 

[trevanian]

The shots they did with the physical 1701 model for the DS9 Tribble episode are a million times better than the best CGI shot in TOS-R.

Agreed. There's no digital replacement for a physical, detailed body, and your example--compared to TOS-R--proves the point.

Financially it is just impossible to shoot miniatures mo-con economically anymore, according to everybody. I do not understand why, and it is a question I've been asking industry professionals for 15 years. Always the same vague 'stage costs too high/system rental too high' which just seems very unlikely given the budgets allocated.

 

[marsomthing]

Why not make a new physical model of the Ent and shoot her under similar lights and film grain, rather than CGI? Just do it with what is currently the best tech.

That's what they should have done. Also for replacement shots in TNG-R.

The shots they did with the physical 1701 model for the DS9 Tribble episode are a million times better than the best CGI shot in TOS-R.

getting in on this very very late in the game, I completley missed the fact they used a model in the ds9 tribble episode. I am going to check that out right now!

I like the TOS-R, I also own a foreign rip off dvd of the old ones....I like seeing new graphics on netflix etc because it is easy to turn on the internet tv and hit play

...but I also find myself thinking about the original dvds