Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

[Thestral]

Also used among some religious sects here in the States. And I wouldn't say they had more meaning so much as a slightly different meaning, being singular instead of plural.

Ritualistic use isn't the same as common use, though. Otherwise we could say that modern English still uses the noun->verb word order because people recite "With this ring I thee wed" at weddings. No one says, "I you kiss." Unless you're referring to more isolated sects like the Amish -- do they use those words in everyday language?

Right, the Amish is who I was thinking of (and other similar groups like Old Order Mennonites and possibly Hutterites) that still use those words in common language. There's also some ritualistic-yet-everyday use (if that makes sense) among a certain segment of Quakers I know.

As to the meaning, a collective noun is a different meaning to a singular noun. Modern Standard English, with the exception of the regional Scots and Northern English noted, does not have a distinct word for plural 'you', as 'ye' once was. As I understand it, thee, thy, thou, etcetera, were also context-specific, in the same way that the use of vous and tu in French connote formality, or watishi, atashi, boku in Japanese (although those change depending on the speaker and not who is being spoken to). There is one exception I know of, which is the American southern plural you: y'all and all y'all. I'd be fascinated to learn of more exceptions, though!

Well, "you" used to be the distinct word for plural "you" alongside "ye." Thee, thou, thy, etc. are all second-person singular , so unless I'm totally mistaken it's more that we lost a singular "you" and simply expanded the upper-class/formal and plural second-person pronoun to the singular and lower-class/informal as well. I've never been entirely clear on the thee/thou/thy rules, but yeah there's particular ways they were used as I understand.

Also... gahhhhhhh "all y'all".... gahhhhh. "Y'all" is perfectly good! And it's spelled "ain't," not "ai'nt"!!!! WARRRGARRBBBLLLLE /rant

Spoiler: '

(why no, of course I haven't been slipping into using "all y'all" myself and no of course they don't have slightly different meanings sometimes... )

 

[thestrangequark]

^Interesting info regarding the Amish, Quakers, and Mennonites. I wondered if it might be one (or all) of those to whom you were referring -- thanks for sharing! I have some Quaker friends, but they speak in typical American English -- at least around me.

As to y'all and all y'all, y'all is for addressing a small group of people and all y'all is for addressing a large group of people!

 

[Owain Taggart]

If you have any typing skills whatsoever you're better off disabling predictive text on your smartphone. Ever since I've killed that cursed interloper, my texts have been much improved. Occasionally, I'll mistype something and have a minor typo. But, that's a fuckton better than having the piece of shit make wholesale word substitutions that completely strip away intended meaning.

Haha yeah, definitely. I do have it disabled because I type faster without it anyway, and it's less distracting. Just yesterday, someone was asking me how to spell "bottle", and then a few moments go by and I say, "Better that than having the predictive text come up with "bootie". Because you so know it would.

 

[thestrangequark]

If you have any typing skills whatsoever you're better off disabling predictive text on your smartphone. Ever since I've killed that cursed interloper, my texts have been much improved. Occasionally, I'll mistype something and have a minor typo. But, that's a fuckton better than having the piece of shit make wholesale word substitutions that completely strip away intended meaning.

Haha yeah, definitely. I do have it disabled because I type faster without it anyway, and it's less distracting. Just yesterday, someone was asking me how to spell "bottle", and then a few moments go by and I say, "Better that than having the predictive text come up with "bootie". Because you so know it would.

I would never disable my autocorrect. One of the great joys in life is the hilarious non sequitur of autocorrect. I find the funny far outweighs the annoyance.

 

[scotpens]

Quakers don't believe in elevating any person above another, so they used "plain speech," i.e. the pronouns thee (objective case), thou (subjective) and thy (possessive), which were once the familiar forms of address. Although, IIRC, American Quakers used thee for both subject and object, which is technically wrong.

 

[Thestral]

^ Right, an intentional linguistic egalitarianism. It's rather amusing to me though that the language evolved in a way we wanted (not elevating people above one another in pronouns), but in the complete opposite way by universalizing "you." (Though as a note plain speech had other features like avoiding titles/Mr./Ms. and not taking oaths for example)

^Interesting info regarding the Amish, Quakers, and Mennonites. I wondered if it might be one (or all) of those to whom you were referring -- thanks for sharing! I have some Quaker friends, but they speak in typical American English -- at least around me.

You're welcome! Most of the Quakers I know who talk like that (and it's a small minority) speak pretty much like anybody else, yeah. It's mostly among themselves and just occasionally around others. Though it always makes me grin to see a "Thee" on Facebook. (Also amusing: a plain-dress guy rocking out to AC/DC as he drives down the road.)

As to y'all and all y'all, y'all is for addressing a small group of people and all y'all is for addressing a large group of people!

I know, but it still sounds goofy. Even on the very rare occasion when I use it.

 

[TorontoTrekker]

As to y'all and all y'all, y'all is for addressing a small group of people and all y'all is for addressing a large group of people!

My ex-boyfriend must be the only Southerner I've ever met (born in Tennessee, lives in Atlanta) who doesn't say "y'all". (He barely has an accent.)

 

[Third Nacelle]

I say "y'all" from time to time, especially when speaking with my family, but I don't have an accent otherwise. I've never used "all y'all," but I have used:

donchall (don't y'all)
yaller (y'all are)
djall (did y'all)

"Ainchall" was at one point in my regular vocabulary as well, but I think I've suppressed it.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^^ May I assume that last sentence was written with deliberate irony?

Yes. "Wreck havoc" is my own personal biggest pet peeve when it comes to the contemporary language massacre. As for "loose" and "lose," I've always wondered if there's some sort of quantum entanglement with "choose" and "chose." Since people use "loose" for "lose" and "chose" for "choose," it seems that the second "o" in "choose" somehow tunneled over and embedded itself in "lose," turning it into "loose."

 

[RoJoHen]

If you have any typing skills whatsoever you're better off disabling predictive text on your smartphone. Ever since I've killed that cursed interloper, my texts have been much improved. Occasionally, I'll mistype something and have a minor typo. But, that's a fuckton better than having the piece of shit make wholesale word substitutions that completely strip away intended meaning.

Haha yeah, definitely. I do have it disabled because I type faster without it anyway, and it's less distracting. Just yesterday, someone was asking me how to spell "bottle", and then a few moments go by and I say, "Better that than having the predictive text come up with "bootie". Because you so know it would.

I would never disable my autocorrect. One of the great joys in life is the hilarious non sequitur of autocorrect. I find the funny far outweighs the annoyance.

The only thing that bugs me about Autocorrect is when it take perfectly legitimate, correctly-spelled words and turns them into other "more common" words.