College: Gender Studies (Feminism Discussion)

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: College: Gender Studies

No, just this internet forum. Quite frankly I have no idea what he's talking about, nor do I care, but I applaud him for standing up to the rest of you.

Ah, I thought this was a question regarding the utility of a gender studies degree followed by Nasat's response about the biases present in such courses, but clearly you've gotten to the bottom of things and deciphered that it's actually a challenge against the evil feminist matriarconspiracy that dominates the board.

Well read, Nick. Well read.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: College: Gender Studies

rejection of feminism always boils down to 'you don't think women should be equals and feminism scares my insecurities'. you can link as much as you want but the opinion you're pushing is pathetic.

The exact sort of irrational, hateful ad hominem pointless response to be expected from a feminist.

Let me put it to you: feminism is an intellectually bankrupt, dangerously hateful ideology that is causing widespread damage to Western society through its projection of an irrational ideological platform into all levels of academia, law, and government. Responses among much of the populace to matters concerning gender are made in terms of adherence to assumptions based in decades of misinformation, ideological distortions and unscholarly behaviour. I am one of those tired and angry of seeing such remain unchallenged. The responsibility is yours - the responsibility to research, to question, to look where people are pointing to offer you a view different to that you currently hold. But instead you will insist that I "hate women", a most ludicrous and offensive argument.

Why don't you read through the introductory materials I've linked, unlearn a few assumptions about how the world works and has worked and then you'll be better prepared to comprehend why I'm warning someone away from this line of - I use the term loosely - "study".

 

[Avon]

Re: College: Gender Studies

i read some of those ranty, barely coherent, biased, unsupported by credible source blogs you linked. i read them so now you should read some actual credible articles and challenge your own assumptions.

do you have many female friends? are they happy to be percieved as some sort of sub-human slave class?

 

[bbailey861]

Re: College: Gender Studies

I’ve been somewhat concerned of late (more so than usual) with the casual acceptance among members of this board of dangerous ideologies and distorted reasoning.

I can't exactly say why, but this one line has me in stitches. The best thing I've read so far today.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: College: Gender Studies

i read some of those ranty, barely coherent, biased, unsupported by credible source blogs you linked. i read them so now you should read some actual credible articles and challenge your own assumptions.

do you have many female friends? are they happy to be percieved as some sort of sub-human slave class?

Observe the elegant reasoning of the feminist, people.

And "barely coherent"? Lol indeed, junxon. Lol indeed.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: College: Gender Studies

The exact sort of irrational, hateful ad hominem pointless response to be expected from a feminist.

Let me put it to you: feminism is an intellectually bankrupt, dangerously hateful ideology that is causing widespread damage to Western society through its projection of an irrational ideological platform into all levels of academia, law, and government.

You know, feminists are not some group mind that all think and act in lockstep with each other. There are extremes in any group, and the group as a whole should not be judged by their worst examples. It sounds like you've had some pretty negative encounters or read some literature that have given you such a strong anti-feminist stance, but to dismiss the movement entirely based on that is shortsighted and unfair, IMO.

Can you imagine dismissing the entire Black civil rights movement based on a negative interaction with a few of its more militant supporters? Yet that's exactly what you are doing here regarding feminism and the struggle for equal rights for women, which is sadly not even close to being achieved in the US and the West, and especially not the rest of the world.

I just think you need to take a step back and examine where all of this anger is coming from and whether you're really giving an objective assessment of the feminist movement as a whole.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: College: Gender Studies

When a particular set of assumptions, a particular ideology or a particular worldview becomes entrenched in academic, legal and political institutions, when it defines the assumptions and beliefs of a population (and particularly those who adhere to certain political and philosophical categories where this ideology is most influential), then exposure to other perspectives will be met with mockery, belittlement, aggression, or some combination of these. It's important for people - for example, someone thinking of entering the miasma of academic gender studies - to be made aware of the range of perspectives prior to being "educated" at length by those who push a singular and indefensible ideological line under the pretence of scholarship.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: College: Gender Studies

When a particular set of assumptions, a particular ideology or a particular worldview becomes entrenched in academic, legal and political institutions, when it defines the assumptions and beliefs of a population (and particularly those who adhere to certain political and philosophical categories where this ideology is most influential), then exposure to other perspectives will be met with mockery, belittlement, aggression, or some combination of these. It's important for people - for example, someone thinking of entering the miasma of academic gender studies - to be made aware of the range of perspectives prior to being "educated" at length by those who push a singular and indefensible ideological line under the pretence of scholarship.

And yet you seem to have absolutely nothing scholarly or even well-written to present as a counter-argument. Why is that?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: College: Gender Studies

You know, feminists are not some group mind that all think and act in lockstep with each other. There are extremes in any group, and the group as a whole should not be judged by their worst examples. It sounds like you've had some pretty negative encounters or read some literature that have given you such a strong anti-feminist stance, but to dismiss the movement entirely based on that is shortsighted and unfair, IMO.

Can you imagine dismissing the entire Black civil rights movement based on a negative interaction with a few of its more militant supporters? Yet that's exactly what you are doing here regarding feminism and the struggle for equal rights for women, which is sadly not even close to being achieved in the US and the West, and especially not the rest of the world.

I just think you need to take a step back and examine where all of this anger is coming from and whether you're really giving an objective assessment of the feminist movement as a whole.

And you need to read some more of those linked articles, particularly the one pointing out the intellectual and moral dishonesty in comparing feminism to the Black civil rights movement.

And I see you're pushing the "oh, he must have had a bad experience and that makes him irrationally angry towards a whole group" line of reasoning. Sadly, most people will buy into it hook, line and sinker.

 

[Avon]

Re: College: Gender Studies

you realise you've jumped into a thread about whether someone should study something and shouted 'it's all lies!!!'

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: College: Gender Studies

you realise you've jumped into a thread about whether someone should study something and shouted 'it's all lies!!!'

Of course I do. That's the point. People need to start standing up to the mistruths and distortions that are shaping our societies, and standing firm against ideologies that claim progressiveness while undermining all standards of scholarship, truth and humanitarianism.

I'm answering the OP's question whether you see it or not. The answer should be a very strong "No".

 

[Pingfah]

Re: College: Gender Studies

I've always thought of Feminism as an extremely broad and loose collection of different beliefs and ideologies, sharing a common goal of establishing equal rights and opportunities for women. Not necessarily sharing a common view on how to achieve that though.

A feminist could also be a masculinist, and vice versa, no?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: College: Gender Studies

And junxon, this pretty much sums you up:


"Activism on behalf of the human rights of men and boys is difficult for several different reasons. One of the most obvious is a public narrative which takes the following form.

• We live in a patriarchy;
• Therefore women, and not men are oppressed;
• Men are elevated and advantaged;
• Therefore anyone advocating male human rights is really driven by misogyny;
• And so, men’s rights organizations are hate organizations".

This narrative is incorrect; that is the point.

 

[Avon]

Re: College: Gender Studies

no.

i just want to be treated as an equal human being. clearly you don't see me as one.

i'm 'the enemy'

(also the OP's question was 'is a gender studies course going to be useful' not 'is feminism a lie')

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: College: Gender Studies

I've always thought of Feminism as an extremely broad and loose collection of different beliefs and ideologies, sharing a common goal of establishing equal rights and opportunities for women. Not necessarily sharing a common view on how to achieve that though.

A feminist could also be a masculinist, and vice versa, no?

Read the first two of my linked articles, for starters.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: College: Gender Studies

no.

i just want to be treated as an equal human being. clearly you don't see me as one.

i'm 'the enemy'

"Clearly".

Through the lens of feminism, I imagine it does seem clear, yes. But remove that lens, and look again. At a great many things, not just me.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: College: Gender Studies

You know, feminists are not some group mind that all think and act in lockstep with each other. There are extremes in any group, and the group as a whole should not be judged by their worst examples. It sounds like you've had some pretty negative encounters or read some literature that have given you such a strong anti-feminist stance, but to dismiss the movement entirely based on that is shortsighted and unfair, IMO.

Can you imagine dismissing the entire Black civil rights movement based on a negative interaction with a few of its more militant supporters? Yet that's exactly what you are doing here regarding feminism and the struggle for equal rights for women, which is sadly not even close to being achieved in the US and the West, and especially not the rest of the world.

I just think you need to take a step back and examine where all of this anger is coming from and whether you're really giving an objective assessment of the feminist movement as a whole.

And you need to read some more of those linked articles, particularly the one pointing out the intellectual and moral dishonesty in comparing feminism to the Black civil rights movement.

And I see you're pushing the "oh, he must have had a bad experience and that makes him irrationally angry towards a whole group" line of reasoning. Sadly, most people will buy into it hook, line and sinker.

Don't start getting snippy with me. I like you, so I've given you plenty of slack compared with how I would usually respond to someone spouting the type of rhetoric you are. My comments weren't pushing anything. I said it sounds like you've either had a negative encounter or read a lot of literature which influenced your, frankly, rather extreme opinion. Are you going to tell me that's not the case, given the numerous times you've spoken about your personal life here before? Clearly the literature part is true, given the metric fuckton of links you posted. If it's not the case, just say so, don't start categorizing everyone who disagrees with you as giving a typical feminist type five response or whatever.

And I wasn't directly comparing women's rights to black civil rights in terms of scope or suffering (nor does it matter --inequality is inequality and should be addressed regardless), I was using an analogy about your shortsightedness in projecting the negative aspects of the most extreme examples of a group on to that group as a whole. Maybe if you weren't so obsessed with the idea that people are following some ridiculous feminist rhetorical playbook and instead just talked to people calmly and without some angry bias, you'd be able to have a rational conversation on the matter.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Re: College: Gender Studies

I've always thought of Feminism as an extremely broad and loose collection of different beliefs and ideologies, sharing a common goal of establishing equal rights and opportunities for women. Not necessarily sharing a common view on how to achieve that though.

A feminist could also be a masculinist, and vice versa, no?

True. Being a feminist is being an equalitarian first and foremost, and there are many different ways to achieve that.

Contemporary gender studies, on the other hand, are not, in my opinion, necessarily feminist, and they are more often that not a very sterile and dogmatic branch of social science.

 

[Avon]

Re: College: Gender Studies

nasat, that's 'no i dont see women as equals' then.

you can wrap me up in some kind of feminazi package if you want but everyone here knows you're on the wrong side of the arguement

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: College: Gender Studies

Quite frankly I have no idea what he's talking about, nor do I care...

Enough said.

And why is it "pretty stupid shit", pray tell?

Go on, live in the real world and find out. I can't spoon feed you.