Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

[The Mirrorball Man]

Seems like a pretty huge leap. Especially considering Spock's duties on Romulus.

Some people actually think that the first WTC plane was a hologram.

 

[F. King Daniel]

In STO, there's a little fyi fact shown during load time that says Picard and Spock went to the Vulcan High Command (whatever its called) and asked for help in assisting Romulus. They were rebuffed. This delay probably did in Romulus.

I have no idea if this is fleshed out in STO. If so, I haven't got there yet.

That's from the Countdown comic prequel to the movie, which STO uses as backstory.

 

[Franklin]

Well, yes, Nero's a terrible villain, that's not in dispute. I just don't see how thing would be improved if Betazed were destroyed as opposed to Romulus.

As a character, he was inarguably a weak villain. But he was the type of villain this story needed. In a way (just in a way) he was a MacGuffin. He was just the excuse for all the action. He was a one-dimensional pissed off guy with a big gun and he had to be stopped. But while he had to be stopped, the real goal of the movie was the bring the original seven together on the Enterprise.
Now, a villain like him in a movie where the seven are a crew and more established (like in "Into Darkness") would be indeed terrible. I'll bet credits to navy beans we don't have to worry about that, though.

Well, I was taking the piss mainly. Obviously there's gonna be zero drama out of destroying Betazed whatsoever as nobody gives a fuck about Troi and Lwaxana.

Still iritated Abrams destroyed Romulus though before the inevitable unification with Vulcan could take place. Especially as he then destroyed Vulcan in the Jar Jar timeline so now we can't get unification in either universe. Ideally I'd have had the next Trek movie (Or preferably, a new TV show!) set a century or two after TNG and have had the Romulans be friendlier ala the Klingons in TNG/DS9.

Well, it's the storytelling decision they made, and we have to live with it. Still, if someone wrote an "imaginary tale" of unification (like the DC Comics "imaginary stories"), I'm sure it would have its buyers.

 

[Tosk]

Still iritated Abrams destroyed Romulus though before the inevitable unification with Vulcan could take place.

Or maybe this is the one thing that will finally bring about the reunifcation? There must be millions of Romulans off-world by the time Romulus was destroyed, so maybe they decide to make Vulcan their new "home planet".

 

[Set Harth]

Path to 2409 describes the empire trying to decide on a new capital from among their remaining worlds.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Path to 2409 describes the empire trying to decide on a new capital from among their remaining worlds.

Which they already settled on its just weirdly in federation space apparently, honestly I blame the map for that one.

They also have a new group led by a member of the reunification movement who have also settled on a new planet after the Empire goes civil warish later in the game, really nice guy and really nice new planet you get to help them settle into.

 

[T'Girl]

I maintain it makes zero sense that Nero plots to destroy Earth and the Federation because the friendly Vulcan that went out of his way to help Romulus arrived a bit too late.

The plot definitely would have made more sense if the Federation actually was the cause of the star blowing up and the death of the miner's families. Something like Starfleet was trying to stabilize a star inside the Empire and it went all wrong.

Now, a villain like him in a movie where the seven are a crew and more established (like in "Into Darkness") would be indeed terrible. I'll bet credits to navy beans we don't have to worry about that, though.

I'll take that bet. For the movie's villain, we're going to get yet another mentally unbalanced individual, who blames the Federation for something that happen to him, and feels justified in seeking some form of revenge.

Of course if that not essentially the (tired old) plot of the next movie, I'll apologize.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I've listened to a bit of it. 47:35 is then the Abrams stuff comes up, and it's about the Countdown comic. The guy says the original script for Countdown killed Worf, Picard and Riker and destroyed Earth, and it was them (Cryptic) saying how badly it would screw up their story for STO that got it changed.

The stuff about the novels (which comes up earlier) is basically the guy being suprised that CBS has allowed the novels to make the big changes in the Trekverse that they have, and him speculating that they might not care or read them because they wouldn't ever allow STO to make similar changes.

 

[Jeyl]

Wheras I say it's more than plausible that, after 200+ years of Romulan/Federation hostility, Nero would conclude that Spock deliberately waited until after Romulus was destroyed to stop the supernova.

What does that have to do with Earth?

And weren't the Romulans depicted as a society that lives off of conflict? After all, the whole entire point of Balance of Terror was to spark another war between the Federation and the Romulans.

Commander: No need to tell you what happens when we reach home with proof of the Earthmen's weakness. And we will have proof. The Earth commander will follow. He must. When he attacks, we will destroy him. Our gift to the homeland, another war.

So Nero's idea of Romulus being free of the Federation is actually counter productive.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wheras I say it's more than plausible that, after 200+ years of Romulan/Federation hostility, Nero would conclude that Spock deliberately waited until after Romulus was destroyed to stop the supernova.

What does that have to do with Earth?

And weren't the Romulans depicted as a society that lives off of conflict? After all, the whole entire point of Balance of Terror was to spark another war between the Federation and the Romulans.

Commander: No need to tell you what happens when we reach home with proof of the Earthmen's weakness. And we will have proof. The Earth commander will follow. He must. When he attacks, we will destroy him. Our gift to the homeland, another war.

So Nero's idea of Romulus being free of the Federation is actually counter productive.

Nero isn't in the Romulan power structure. His ideas would be different than the Praetor, the Senate or a military commander. His ideas about the UFP would be shaped by Romulan propaganda.

 

[thumbtack]

For the movie's villain, we're going to get yet another mentally unbalanced individual, who blames 21st Century Earth for something that happen to him, and feels justified in seeking some form of revenge.

FTFY

 

[F. King Daniel]

Wheras I say it's more than plausible that, after 200+ years of Romulan/Federation hostility, Nero would conclude that Spock deliberately waited until after Romulus was destroyed to stop the supernova.

What does that have to do with Earth?

Because Earth is the captial of the Federation. And believing the Federation deliberately allowed Romulus to be destroyed, of course he'd want to strike against it.

And weren't the Romulans depicted as a society that lives off of conflict? After all, the whole entire point of Balance of Terror was to spark another war between the Federation and the Romulans.

Commander: No need to tell you what happens when we reach home with proof of the Earthmen's weakness. And we will have proof. The Earth commander will follow. He must. When he attacks, we will destroy him. Our gift to the homeland, another war.

So Nero's idea of Romulus being free of the Federation is actually counter productive.

IIRC, the Romulan Commander did not want war, he was just following the orders of the Praetor. Nero was out for personal vengeance after his wife, unborn child and entire world was obliterated. Different people, different circumstances.

 

[publiusr]

If you really want a firestorm, say the Iconians also influenced section 31 for a long time.

After all, isn't it odd how Praxis went up, and later the supernova that wiped out Romulus? A one-two punch that dealt with the Federation's worst neighbors

Rather convienant.

 

[M'Sharak]

And weren't the Romulans depicted as a society that lives off of conflict? After all, the whole entire point of Balance of Terror was to spark another war between the Federation and the Romulans.

Commander: No need to tell you what happens when we reach home with proof of the Earthmen's weakness. And we will have proof. The Earth commander will follow. He must. When he attacks, we will destroy him. Our gift to the homeland, another war.

So Nero's idea of Romulus being free of the Federation is actually counter productive.

From dialogue:

PIKE: You've declared war against the Federation. Withdraw. I'll agree to arrange a conference with Romulan leadership at a neutral location.
NERO: (on viewscreen) I do not speak for the Empire. We stand apart...

Nero makes a point of disassociating himself from the Romulan leadership. He is not known to have been part of the Romulan military or official structure at any time previously and—even if it wasn't always so—he now considers himself and his crew to be outside of (and separate from) that society.

 

[Set Harth]

Something like Starfleet was trying to stabilize a star inside the Empire

That would make sense?

 

[nightwind1]

Yeah, it gave us Eric Bana's seminal portrayal of Nero.

"FIRE EVERYTHING!"

Worst villain in Star Trek history.

Really?

Worse that Gorgan, the Friendly Angel?

Worse than "God" from TFF?

Worse than Armus, the living oil slick that killed Tasha Yar?

Worse than the Wadi from "Move Along Home"?

Worse than Ronin from "Sub Rosa"?

Worse than the Pakleds?

Worse than Shinzon?

Uummmm..... no. Just... no.

 

[Set Harth]

"God" was in TFF, not TVH.

 

[nightwind1]

"God" was in TFF, not TVH.

Duuhhh... oops.

Fixed.

 

[BillJ]

Worse than Armus, the living oil slick that killed Tasha Yar?

I loved Armus!

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, it gave us Eric Bana's seminal portrayal of Nero.

"FIRE EVERYTHING!"

Worst villain in Star Trek history.

Really?

Worse that Gorgan, the Friendly Angel?

Worse than "God" from TFF?

Worse than Armus, the living oil slick that killed Tasha Yar?

Worse than the Wadi from "Move Along Home"?

Worse than Ronin from "Sub Rosa"?

Worse than the Pakleds?

Worse than Shinzon?

Uummmm..... no. Just... no.

Actually yes. To all of them. Nero is that bad.