• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe

By analogy, think of canon as like a continent and personal continuity as like a country.

Maybe, but for every person who only accepts Trek TOS or old/new BSG or Who there's someone whose personal <insert your favorite word here> includes the official canon material PLUS fan fiction, side stories, audio adventures, etc. etc. In fact, I'd wager there's more who add than subtract.
 
By analogy, think of canon as like a continent and personal continuity as like a country.

Maybe, but for every person who only accepts Trek TOS or old/new BSG or Who there's someone whose personal <insert your favorite word here> includes the official canon material PLUS fan fiction, side stories, audio adventures, etc. etc. In fact, I'd wager there's more who add than subtract.

Yes, which is why both of the countries I actually mentioned -- the United States and Russia -- contain territory that goes beyond a single continent. The whole point of my analogy is to say exactly what you just said: that a personal continuity can include -- or exclude -- both canonical and extracanonical material. But personally counting a tie-in novel doesn't make it part of your "personal canon" any more than Hawaii is part of the USA's "national continent." Each fan has one's own personal continuity, while the studio has its canon. That's the distinction.

I've been adding tie-ins to my personal Star Trek continuity for decades, and yes, there are canonical episodes I exclude from it. I play that game just like anyone else does. I mean, my gods, I've written nearly 20 works of tie-in Trek fiction, all of which I count as part of my personal continuity, along with dozens of other novels and storie that my novels and stories interconnect with. So of course I'm aware that personal continuity is mostly about addition rather than subtraction.
 
Language change is beneficial if it improves clarity and understanding. The corruption of the meaning of "canon" has just created decades of pointless bickering and confusion. It's a maladaptive mutation and one that should thus be resisted.

Yep. :techman:
 
Yes, which is why both of the countries I actually mentioned -- the United States and Russia -- contain territory that goes beyond a single continent. The whole point of my analogy is to say exactly what you just said: that a personal continuity can include -- or exclude -- both canonical and extracanonical material. But personally counting a tie-in novel doesn't make it part of your "personal canon" any more than Hawaii is part of the USA's "national continent." Each fan has one's own personal continuity, while the studio has its canon. That's the distinction.

Yeah, rereading that now I see that, serves me right for getting in a thread about canon. :vulcan:


I'm going back to my personal country now, hold my calls everone...
 
Yeah, rereading that now I see that, serves me right for getting in a thread about canon. :vulcan:


I'm going back to my personal country now, hold my calls everone...
I find whenever threads turn towards discussing Canon, someone almost always gets shot :devil:
 
I suppose it depends how you define 'canon.' Sherlock Holmes fans use it to mean novels written by Conan Doyle. The Bible means the 4 gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

If you apply the same sort of criteria to DW, I would argue that the likes of books, radio dramas, DW unbound and the Cushing movies fall outside the definition of canon, no matter how influential they have proven to be or how well they fit in within the continuity of the series.

The reason fans make such a fuss over the word "canon" is that they assume it's a value judgment, a seal of approval for what's real or worthwhile or acceptable. But it isn't. It's just a descriptive label. The canon is the original, core body of work, as distinct from derivative works by other creators or companies (i.e. licensed tie-ins or fanfiction). That's all the word means. It doesn't mean "real" or "right," because virtually any long-running canon will retcon or ignore earlier parts of itself, so canon is no more exempt from being contradicted than tie-ins are. Fans use "canon" as a synonym for "continuity," and that's generally the goal, but it's not absolute, because a canon can rewrite its own continuity, or it can add ideas from non-canonical works into its continuity (e.g. the Star Wars prequels and TV series incorporating characters, species, planets, etc. created for the comics and novels in some cases while ignoring them in others).

So canon does exist; it just doesn't mean as much as fans mistakenly assume it does. Doctor Who has a canon, but that canon has a very loose and mutable continuity.

Indeed, even to return to one of the examples I used, the four Gospels of the New Testament are 'Canon' but contain different tellings of the life of Christ, each varying somewhat from the others.

(I'm probably coming across as really religious here but I'm actually at best an Agnostic!)
 
Rather than us bickering over (under, beside, behind, etc.) canon (contenuity, whatever), let's just kick back and present examples of crossover craziness, be it illustration, Photoshopping, music videos or some other creative endeavor.

Sincerely,

Bill
 
Indeed, even to return to one of the examples I used, the four Gospels of the New Testament are 'Canon' but contain different tellings of the life of Christ, each varying somewhat from the others.

And just like in Trek Fandom, there are many Christian theologians who will go through great pains to show how don't really contradict each other, tell the same story and fit together perfectly. The same is true of other religious canons, such as the canon of the Hebrew Bible/Tanakh, which--to cite one example--contains two differeing accounts of the creation of mankind.
 
mash_zpsfceda19e.jpg
 
Rather than us bickering over (under, beside, behind, etc.) canon (contenuity, whatever), let's just kick back and present examples of crossover craziness, be it illustration, Photoshopping, music videos or some other creative endeavor.

Sincerely,

Bill

Crazy talk!
 
Fifith Jesus is still my favourite. I still can't believe the robes they gave the sixth Jesus to wear...
 
In terms of trek/Dr. Who cross-overs, for the artists out there:

TOS meets fourth Doctor

Tennant should have been on Enterprise-D (more work with Pat)

Matt Smith with JJ and Pine.

It gets a bit harder after that.

Hartnell on the Orbit Jet.

Second Doctor on Lost in space or the Time Tunnel

Third Doctor On Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea...or UFO

Fifth Doctor in Buck Rogers with Erin Grey

Sixth Doctor on Red Dwarf of course.

Seventh Doctor...hmm NuBSG--Stargate--or, of all things Game of Thrones.
Eighth on Space Above and beyond
Ninth in Alien
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top