Uniforms

[Bry_Sinclair]

In Nu-Trek, Uhura wears a uniform without sleeves. In an era where rank is displayed by braids around the cuffs, isn't that a little pointless?

Also, is the sleeve-less uniform an option for all crew (will we see Kirk, et al sporting it)? Or is it more of a way just to expose more female flesh (is a miniskirt not enough for people these days ).

 

[M'Sharak]

Hm. Has the clock been turned back to 2009 again, and I just never received the memo?

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=95364&highlight=uniform+sleeves+rank
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=109031&highlight=uniform+sleeves+rank
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=109386&highlight=uniform+sleeves+rank

For that matter, didn't we pretty much have this same thread once already (not quite a year ago)?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Uhura's outfit seems to be an optional variant as there were also female personnel wearing full sleeves and trousers as well.

As we saw other Starfleet outfits that didn't feature rank insignia (the space-diving outfits and Kirk's cold weather gear), rank insignia may not be that terribly important to be on every Starfleet outfit. Even in TOS, McCoy and M'Benga's surgeon tunics didn't have rank insignia, neither did Nurse Chapel's uniform, or the formal uniforms (although some braiding along the front was used to distinguish senior and flag officers, IIRC).

 

[shapeshifter]

AAAABRAMS! You got some 'splaining to do!

 

[The Wormhole]

Since women have long sleeve uniforms, logically men would also have short sleeve variants. Hell, braids on the cuffs were how rank was displayed in TMP and Kirk spends most of that movie in short sleeves. Personally, I find it odd that all women wear miniskirts. Yeah, I suppose when you cast women like Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve you want to put them in miniskirts, but it would be realistic to have both a skirt and pant variant for the uniforms. There should also be manskirts like in TNG S1.

 

[CaptainMurdock]

Since women have long sleeve uniforms, logically men would also have short sleeve variants. Hell, braids on the cuffs were how rank was displayed in TMP and Kirk spends most of that movie in short sleeves. Personally, I find it odd that all women wear miniskirts. Yeah, I suppose when you cast women like Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve you want to put them in miniskirts, but it would be realistic to have both a skirt and pant variant for the uniforms. There should also be manskirts like in TNG S1.

Yeah but TMP uniforms had those shoulder patches that had had rank stripe symbols on it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I agree that rank insignia probably aren't as pervasive in Starfleet. After all, a simple scan or lookup of computer records can instantly derive anyone's rank. Besides, there were those casual jumpsuits sometimes worn in TOS - which, IIRC, can be worn by any officer or crewman, regardless of rank - and they have no space for rank insignia.

 

[Sector 7]

Even in TOS, McCoy and M'Benga's surgeon tunics didn't have rank insignia, neither did Nurse Chapel's uniform, or the formal uniforms (although some braiding along the front was used to distinguish senior and flag officers, IIRC).

The actual rank was denoted by the braid. Note the differences between Captain Kirk [wide collar/main seam braid & shoulder seam piping], Commander Spock [wide collar/main seam braid only] and Lieutenant Commander McCoy [collar/main seam piping only]dress uniforms:

Commodore Mendez wore the same dress uniform as Captain Kirk in "Menagerie", evidently, there was no difference for flag officers?:

Hope this helps.

 

[Ovation]

Since women have long sleeve uniforms, logically men would also have short sleeve variants. Hell, braids on the cuffs were how rank was displayed in TMP and Kirk spends most of that movie in short sleeves. Personally, I find it odd that all women wear miniskirts. Yeah, I suppose when you cast women like Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve you want to put them in miniskirts, but it would be realistic to have both a skirt and pant variant for the uniforms. There should also be manskirts like in TNG S1.

No! A proper kilt or pants--but not that ridiculous "manskirt". Yikes.

 

[Kruezerman]

Since women have long sleeve uniforms, logically men would also have short sleeve variants. Hell, braids on the cuffs were how rank was displayed in TMP and Kirk spends most of that movie in short sleeves. Personally, I find it odd that all women wear miniskirts. Yeah, I suppose when you cast women like Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve you want to put them in miniskirts, but it would be realistic to have both a skirt and pant variant for the uniforms. There should also be manskirts like in TNG S1.

No! A proper kilt or pants--but not that ridiculous "manskirt". Yikes.

But... but... total gender equality... Gene Roddenberry's vision... BLASPHEMY!

 

[The Wormhole]

Since women have long sleeve uniforms, logically men would also have short sleeve variants. Hell, braids on the cuffs were how rank was displayed in TMP and Kirk spends most of that movie in short sleeves. Personally, I find it odd that all women wear miniskirts. Yeah, I suppose when you cast women like Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve you want to put them in miniskirts, but it would be realistic to have both a skirt and pant variant for the uniforms. There should also be manskirts like in TNG S1.

No! A proper kilt or pants--but not that ridiculous "manskirt". Yikes.

A kilt is an interesting idea. Have Scotty wear one as he climbs up a Jeffries tube, and then when Keenser follows, well, I wouldn't want to be Keenser.

 

[Thete]

Since women have long sleeve uniforms, logically men would also have short sleeve variants. Hell, braids on the cuffs were how rank was displayed in TMP and Kirk spends most of that movie in short sleeves. Personally, I find it odd that all women wear miniskirts. Yeah, I suppose when you cast women like Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve you want to put them in miniskirts, but it would be realistic to have both a skirt and pant variant for the uniforms. There should also be manskirts like in TNG S1.

No! A proper kilt or pants--but not that ridiculous "manskirt". Yikes.

But... but... total gender equality... Gene Roddenberry's vision... BLASPHEMY!

I wouldn't argue it like that, however I do think it was quite a remarkable thing for a television show in the 1980s to unironically include a man in a miniskirt-style uniform. One day I hope we do attain gender neutrality and equality, acceptance of trans* people, etc. Star Trek has always been very progressive and the 'manskirt' is one of my favourite subtleties.

I would argue also that showing one's body off unashamedly as both the men and women did especially in TOS is perhaps indicative of some sort of comfort with sexuality we have not yet attained.

But maybe I'm missing out on some in-joke or something!

 

[mos6507]

You'd think 25 years on that gender issues would have advanced some. We've seen pop culture get more comfortable with sex ("We saw your boobs" at the oscars being a bellweather for that) and people enjoy openly gay entertainers like George Takei, but when it comes to the average straight young male, he's more uptight about his masculinity than ever.

 

[Thete]

You'd think 25 years on that gender issues would have advanced some. We've seen pop culture get more comfortable with sex ("We saw your boobs" at the oscars being a bellweather for that) and people enjoy openly gay entertainers like George Takei, but when it comes to the average straight young male, he's more uptight about his masculinity than ever.

Agreed. It's annoying as hell.

Here in the UK, all the way through secondary school, people used 'gay' as an insult. Also 'Jew' but that's another story. I just don't see why being gay is such a bad thing, I don't see how it could be taken as an insult unless it severely damaged their ego or something, the prospect of which I find hilarious.

 

[marksound]

entertainers like George Takei

 

[Cake]

Uhura's outfit seems to be an optional variant as there were also female personnel wearing full sleeves and trousers as well.

As we saw other Starfleet outfits that didn't feature rank insignia (the space-diving outfits and Kirk's cold weather gear), rank insignia may not be that terribly important to be on every Starfleet outfit. Even in TOS, McCoy and M'Benga's surgeon tunics didn't have rank insignia, neither did Nurse Chapel's uniform, or the formal uniforms (although some braiding along the front was used to distinguish senior and flag officers, IIRC).

I thought that was because a nurse is something like an ensign, not someone particular high in the pecking order. Ensign Chekov also doesn't have rank insignia. Having no braid on the long sleeve was in TOS and is in the movie a sign of a low rank.

Personally I find it stupid, that Uhura's uniform has no rank insignia. She isn't an ensign. They should have put something on the end of her short sleeve or on her shoulder or neck.

 

[Sindatur]

Uhura's outfit seems to be an optional variant as there were also female personnel wearing full sleeves and trousers as well.

As we saw other Starfleet outfits that didn't feature rank insignia (the space-diving outfits and Kirk's cold weather gear), rank insignia may not be that terribly important to be on every Starfleet outfit. Even in TOS, McCoy and M'Benga's surgeon tunics didn't have rank insignia, neither did Nurse Chapel's uniform, or the formal uniforms (although some braiding along the front was used to distinguish senior and flag officers, IIRC).

I thought that was because a nurse is something like an ensign, not someone particular high in the pecking order. Ensign Chekov also doesn't have rank insignia. Having no braid on the long sleeve was in TOS and is in the movie a sign of a low rank.

Personally I find it stupid, that Uhura's uniform has no rank insignia. She isn't an ensign. They should have put something on the end of her short sleeve or on her shoulder or neck.

Uhura's Rank Insignia was on her fans

 

[C.E. Evans]

Uhura's outfit seems to be an optional variant as there were also female personnel wearing full sleeves and trousers as well.

As we saw other Starfleet outfits that didn't feature rank insignia (the space-diving outfits and Kirk's cold weather gear), rank insignia may not be that terribly important to be on every Starfleet outfit. Even in TOS, McCoy and M'Benga's surgeon tunics didn't have rank insignia, neither did Nurse Chapel's uniform, or the formal uniforms (although some braiding along the front was used to distinguish senior and flag officers, IIRC).

I thought that was because a nurse is something like an ensign, not someone particular high in the pecking order.

I think as a senior nurse, Chapel probably was a lieutenant, but her authority was largely confined to the sickbay and over the junior nurses.

Ensign Chekov also doesn't have rank insignia. Having no braid on the long sleeve was in TOS and is in the movie a sign of a low rank.

Enlisted crewmen also wore uniforms without rank insignia in TOS, kind of suggesting that rank stripes on the sleeves wasn't quite that important as a person's rank and position. It really would be a case of how different Starfleet is from today's navies, IMO.

Personally I find it stupid, that Uhura's uniform has no rank insignia. She isn't an ensign. They should have put something on the end of her short sleeve or on her shoulder or neck.

I think we go with the idea of uniform rank insignia being less important in Starfleet than rank & position--along with Uhura's uniform being a casual variant anyway--it works.

 

[ROBE]

The Motion Picture Ensigns had a broken stripe to show their rank.
Only TWOK had proper officers and ratings insignia.
Pike and Spock didn't even have rank insignia on their academy uniforms.
I believe that in the new movie the delta badge is different for officers and ratings.

 

[hammerhead]

It's funny because in "The Cage", they had an enlisted chief with a broken braid on his sleeve as rank but didn't use that for the rest of TOS. Odd but shows someone did think about it that early on

Chief Garison link at Memory Alpha