More Star Wars films announced

[cooleddie74]

I just chalk it up (in-universe, at least) to the Emperor being overcome with hubris at the moment he's torturing and trying to kill Luke with his Sith lightning. He's so engrossed in destroying this new, rebellious and uncooperative threat to his Empire that he doesn't sense Vader connecting with the good that's left within himself and becoming Anakin Skywalker once more.

When Anakin grabbed the Emperor to throw him down the reactor shaft he took his former Master completely by surprise. Palpatine could do little in his moment of surprise and shock other than start screaming and let his lightning bolts flail wildly out of control.

But if you want a real world explanation what CC said is what I subscribe to. Jedi was filmed more than 20 years before Sith and in the early eighties Lucas hadn't a clue how the Emperor would be portrayed in any prequel films....provided he ever got around to even making any of them.

 

[davejames]

Sometimes "less" is more. ROTJ still manages to be better than at least 2 of the 3 PT films, and it's a toss-up comparing it to ROTS. On the other hand, ANH and TESB are hands-down better than all of them.

I'd give ROTJ the edge myself, just because it's fun and still has a bunch of characters we like and care about.

ROTS might be appropriately epic and have lots of cool-looking sequences, but I still find myself unable to really care about any of it.

 

[cooleddie74]

My current personal ranking of the six existing Saga episodes and the big-screen Clone Wars animated film:

1. V- ESB
2. IV- ANH
3. VI- ROTJ
4. III- ROTS
5. I- TPM
6. II- AOTC
7. The Clone Wars

I'll think about where the two Ewok movies fall later.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Sometimes "less" is more. ROTJ still manages to be better than at least 2 of the 3 PT films, and it's a toss-up comparing it to ROTS. On the other hand, ANH and TESB are hands-down better than all of them.

I'd give ROTJ the edge myself, just because it's fun and still has a bunch of characters we like and care about.

ROTS might be appropriately epic and have lots of cool-looking sequences, but I still find myself unable to really care about any of it.

That's a good way of looking at it. With that in mind, my ranking, best to worst, by episode number: 4 5 6 3 1 2.

"The Clone Wars" exists in an alternate universe along side "The Faithful Wookiee".

 

[davejames]

I'm surprised so many fans still rank AOTC lower than TPM. Yeah the plot might have been a jumbled mess, but at least the tone was a bit darker and more badass. And it had FAR fewer Gungans, Neimodians, and annoying little kids in it.

 

[cooleddie74]

I can't begin to speak for CC, but as for myself I just feel that Episode I has more of a "Star Wars feel" to it than Clones. TPM had moments of introspection and a sense of wonder that Episode II just didn't in spite of the Padmé assassination plot mystery, the secrets behind the Clones and the huge battle on Geonosis. Clones is a good movie....none of the six Saga films are bad. But for a Saga film it's just the weakest and least emotionally rewarding of all of them to date, and the atrocious romantic scenes between Anakin and Padmé don't help one bit.

Clones feels more like a space action film with SW elements thrown in. TPM for all its flaws feels like an actual SW movie with more emotional scope and range.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

AOTC gets bogged down in the middle section.

On the plus side, I think the final scene in AOTC, the marriage of Anakin and Padmé, is the best closing scene of all six films. That includes ANH, which is second. I just think Anakin and Padmé's love theme [or whatever it's called] is magnificent. It has just the right dash of evoking star-crossed lovers while maintaining a common melodic heritage with Obi-Wan's theme. The way the scene is cut, and the way it leads into the end credits, is just tops to me.

I also like the part earlier in the film when Padmé declares her love for Anakin, as they are getting taken out to the arena, again to the same music.

Of course, the merging of the OT stormtroopers with Boba Fett was utterly brilliant, and I can't say that enough.

Obi-Wan's fight with Jango was pretty well done, although I don't like some of the jumps. The speeder chase through the capital was nice. The end battle is of course a blast. I didn't even hate Yoda's duel with Dooku too much.

But, the middle part was just plodding and ultimately boring; it drags the rest of the film down. Lucas's way of curring back and forth across the galaxy without resolving anything pretty much reached it's nadir in that film. Oh, and I'd almost blocked out the scenes on Naboo earlier in the film, but now they're coming back to me.

 

[cooleddie74]

I think that's a very fair assessment. The middle third of the film along with most of the Anakin-Padmé romantic interactions really weigh the film down because the story goes nowhere and the wooden acting between Hayden and Natalie elicits more embarrassed chuckles and eyerolls than it does sympathy for what the two characters are experiencing.

The movie starts of really well, then drags like a tired snail with almost no reward and finally delivers a slam-bang action sequence and finale worthy of the better films. But that middle....yikes. I don't mind Obi-Wan's investigation into the plot to kill Padmé but it takes forever and a day to end up in Dooku's clutches on Geonosis and by the time Obi-Wan evades Jango Fett and lands there you're checking your watch. The mystery starts off in a way that hooks you (mysterious, unseen cloners? Missing planet in the Jedi Archives? The hell?!) but then just plods along until you're basically glad that Dooku and the Separatists capture Obi-Wan and chain him to that column in the arena.

Anything to get the last part of the film going!

 

[CorporalClegg]

My current personal ranking of the six existing Saga episodes and the big-screen Clone Wars animated film:

1. V- ESB
2. IV- ANH
3. VI- ROTJ
4. III- ROTS
5. I- TPM
6. II- AOTC
7. The Clone Wars

I'll think about where the two Ewok movies fall later.

I would rate them about the same. But I'd actually flip-flop TPM and ROTJ. I think TPM is much better than most give it credit for (once you get past Jar-Jar), and I also think ROTJ really struggles at times. I think if it weren't for the nostalgia goggles, most would view it much differently.

In fact, it was the first Star Wars film I ever saw and put me off of the franchise for almost a decade until I finally rented ANH and ESB in high school out of peer pressure.

On the plus side, I think the final scene in AOTC, the marriage of Anakin and Padmé, is the best closing scene of all six films.

Agreed. I'll even go a step further and say it's one of the best scenes in the entire saga. The final scene in ROTS is nearly as good.

Say what you will about Lucas, but the guy can frame a shot as well as any of his contemporaries. In some ways, I'd even argue he's better than Kubrick, who was sort of a one-trick pony, in that regard.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Say what you will about Lucas, but the guy can frame a shot as well as any of his contemporaries. In some ways, I'd even argue he's better than Kubrick, who was sort of a one-trick pony, in that regard.

Yep. Agreed about Lucas, and that's an interesting way of putting Kubrick.

 

[Set Harth]

a couple of the novels written after Episode III was in theaters seem to strongly hint at the Emperor knowing through the Dark Side that Anakin/Vader hadn't actually killed Padmé when he Force choked her on Mustafar and that she had indeed survived for a short time after the incident.

Which novels? I've admittedly skipped many of them but I never came across that. Dark Lord, for example, indicates the opposite: Not for the first time Sidious wondered what might have happened had Anakin not killed Padme on Mustafar.

 

[cooleddie74]

^
Dark Lord was one of the novels I had in mind and the book does indeed have the passage you just mentioned (it helps to have a copy handy). I am incorrect about the passages in that novel, but I think it's kind of a moot point now compared to the other issues we've been discussing. If the Emperor thinks Vader killed his own wife it's still something he deliberately used to break Anakin's spirit and complete his destruction and conversion, and did so with glee as evidenced by his wide, satisfied smile when Vader breaks down with grief and lashes out from the medical reconstruction table.

Palpatine was still a nasty enough bastard to use that information to his own selfish ends....to secure his new apprentice and make sure he had nothing else left to live for. His mother was gone? The Republic had failed? Friends and fellow Jedi betrayed him? Wife dead at his own hand? His child perished with her? What else did he have except Darth Sidious, the Sith philosophy and their new Empire?

He was now the Emperor's tool to mold as he wished.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Yep. Agreed about Lucas, and that's an interesting way of putting Kubrick.

He is better than just about everyone with the perspective--an argument could be made for Hitch, but he was better than everyone at everything.

However, I think Kubrick often used it as a crutch. In many of his most famous shots, especially later in his career, it became the only focal of the frame. There was nothing going on, and if you were to omit the perspective element, the frame literally loses all its depth.

 

[Mr Light]

Aside from the Anakin/Padme scenes, I think AOTC is pretty thrilling. The Coruscant Chase. Obi-Wan on Kamino. The Asteroid Field battle. Obi vs Jango on Kamino. Every second of the Battle of Geonosis. Seeing Yoda in action for the first time.

 

[tighr]

It would have been nice to see a live action Darth Vader that could also move like Anakin could. I realize that in the 70s/80s it was slightly difficult to get a man in a giant suit move with any semblance of agility, but it would have been epic to see Darth Vader do any actual fighting.

Episode II should have ended with Anakin becoming Vader, and Episode III should have started with the fight on Mustafar, resulting in the suit, and then Vader kicks ass for the next hour and a half.

 

[cooleddie74]

^
Yeah, that would have been pretty thrilling to say the least.

Technically we did get to see Darth Vader move like Anakin because Anakin was christened with his new Sith Lord title before his fate on Mustafar and reconstruction, but yeah, I do get your point. With the bulk of the old David Prowse costume during the original films and the need for someone of Ray Park-level martial arts knowledge to come in and perform acrobatic combat stunts I just don't think we were ever meant to see such fighting out of Vader in the OT.

Anyways, Lucas has repeatedly said that Darth Vader in the suit was a shadow of his former self....a cybernetic creation that did little more than keep the shattered and dismembered man inside alive. Combat was never meant to be Vader's strong suit inside the armor....his forte was supposed to be his skills with the Dark Side(choking people, levitating and throwing things, psychic impressions and visions)....those would be more than enough to help him win the day against most adversaries.

 

[davejames]

It would have been nice to see a live action Darth Vader that could also move like Anakin could. I realize that in the 70s/80s it was slightly difficult to get a man in a giant suit move with any semblance of agility, but it would have been epic to see Darth Vader do any actual fighting.

I just can't imagine that looking good at all, even with today's technology. A lot of what makes Vader seem so powerful and menacing is the slow and deliberate way in which he moves.

If you have him suddenly flipping through the air and doing acrobatic moves at lightning speed, that just wouldn't come through nearly as strong, I don't think.

 

[CorporalClegg]

If you have him suddenly flipping through the air and doing acrobatic moves at lightning speed, that just wouldn't come through nearly as strong, I don't think.

I don't think it would be too hard to find a happy medium. The way the SWTOR trailers posted up thread depicted Darth Malgus would be pretty close to how I envision a "modern" Vader.

 

[Kelthaz]

It would have been nice to see a live action Darth Vader that could also move like Anakin could. I realize that in the 70s/80s it was slightly difficult to get a man in a giant suit move with any semblance of agility, but it would have been epic to see Darth Vader do any actual fighting.

Outside of a video game, I don't want to see anyone moving like Anakin did.

 

[cooleddie74]

I didn't mind Anakin's combat moves all that much until the final battle with Obi-Wan on Mustafar got way out of control and the two of them started climbing on lava-dippers and mechanical columns to trade blows. All that swinging, jumping and landing on small little platforms hovering just a foot or two over burning hot lava did get tiresome after a few minutes and when the "YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER" scene arrives and Anakin is dismembered and left for dead it couldn't have come a moment too soon.

Prequel Jedi acrobatics worked most of the time....but that last fight before Vader is placed inside the armor was just masturbatory in parts.