Canceled Shows: If they were popular from the start

[RoJoHen]

Lovable bandits on a spaceship?

Pretty much this. Firefly does not have a complicated premise.

It's exactly the same premise of Farscape.

Hell, Arrested Development's premise is spelled out for us in the opening credits: "This is the story of a wealthy family who lost everything and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together."

 

[Greg Cox]

Firefly is basically the same as Farscape - a ship full of squabbling, charismatic losers/outsiders bop around space and try to survive, while dodging The Man. Just goes to show that if the situation, characters and style are different enough, you can do two versions of the same premise and both are perfectly welcome, without any glaring overlap that makes you wonder why there needs to be two such shows at all.

That's a pretty good comparison, although, of course, FARSCAPE also contained a hefty dose of BUCK ROGERS and A PRINCESS OF MARS, with a modern-day Earthman unexpectedly transported to an exotic space opera setting, full of colorful aliens and adventures.

I do think that the overtly "Western" trappings on FIREFLY initially confused and/or turned off some people. I know that, among my own circle of friends, it caused some head-scratching and took a little getting used to.

"Is it supposed to look like a cowboy movie?"

"I think that's kinda the idea, yes."

"Oh. Not sure what I think about that."

 

[Gaith]

The issue is whether a show can be easily boiled down to one idea by a common viewer in a way that he can tell outsiders what the show is.

To be fair, the show's original title was "Underachieving Space Hipsters"...

 

[RoJoHen]

The issue is whether a show can be easily boiled down to one idea by a common viewer in a way that he can tell outsiders what the show is.

To be fair, the show's original title was "Underachieving Space Hipsters"...

I would totally watch that show, too.

 

[the G-man]

I would have liked to have seen Twin Peaks either cancelled sooner or later.

Sooner, as in at the end of the "Laura Palmer" arc and before they started the "Annie" arc.

Later, as in if they had been allowed to give the show a proper conclusion.

 

[Greg Cox]

"The slightly shady crew of a ramshackle spaceship try to keep flying, while staying one step ahead of the law . . . ."

Trust me, just about any plot can be boiled down to three paragraphs (or less) of back cover copy!

I suppose. The issue, IMO, isn't so much whether such a synopsis is possible. The issue is whether a show can be easily boiled down to one idea by a common viewer in a way that he can tell outsiders what the show is. Buffy & The Avengers both had an advantage in that they were part of familiar genres. You don't have to say much before people start understanding what you're talking about because it evokes ideas of things they've seen before.

BTW, Mr. Cox, you can summarize Firefly. But can you distill Dollhouse?

Firefly: Okay, how about: "It's a space western about this Han Solo-type character and his crew."

Dollhouse: To be honest, I've only seen a handful of Dollhouse eps, but let me give it a shot.

"A dark, sexy, and provocative scifi series about a woman employed by a mysterious company that programs her with a new personality and memories every week. Echo can be anyone the client wants--but who is she, really?"

Or, more casually: "It's this sexy, kind of disturbing scifi series about a woman who gets a different personality and identity every week. Weird, huh?"

Or: "Think Le Femme Nikita--but with a scifi twist."

 

[jayceee]

So far I haven't come across any tv shows which were almost impossible to figure out eventually. (Not even movies, for that matter).

More often, I come across almost "mindwreck" impossible type stuff, when I attempt to read some wikipedia pages on topics in advanced mathematics. A lot harder to figure out, than a tv show like Dollhouse.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yeah, you don't need to tell every viewer everything at once. Note that the opening spiel of STAR TREK ("These are the voyages," etc.) doesn't say anything about the United Federation of Planets, Starfleet, Vulcans, Klingons, the Prime Directive, warp drives, and so on.

If people are interested in the basic premise, they'll catch on to the rest in time. If not, force-feeding them all those details probably don't matter.

In the beginning, you just need to sketch things in broad strokes: "An enigmatic druid warrior teams up with a sexy cyborg to find an unearthly treasure beyond imagining!"

 

[jayceee]

Yeah, you don't need to tell every viewer everything at once. Note that the opening spiel of STAR TREK ("These are the voyages," etc.) doesn't say anything about the United Federation of Planets, Starfleet, Vulcans, Klingons, the Prime Directive, warp drives, and so on.

If people are interested in the basic premise, they'll catch on to the rest in time. If not, force-feeding them all those details probably don't matter.

In the beginning, you just need to sketch things in broad strokes: "An enigmatic druid warrior teams up with a sexy cyborg to find an unearthly treasure beyond imagining!"

Sometimes these things are easily guessable and predictable, from such buzzlines and genre descriptions. (Or the back cover description of a novel).

This is especially the case if one reads web sites like tvtropes.org all the time.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yeah, you don't need to tell every viewer everything at once. Note that the opening spiel of STAR TREK ("These are the voyages," etc.) doesn't say anything about the United Federation of Planets, Starfleet, Vulcans, Klingons, the Prime Directive, warp drives, and so on.

If people are interested in the basic premise, they'll catch on to the rest in time. If not, force-feeding them all those details probably don't matter.

In the beginning, you just need to sketch things in broad strokes: "An enigmatic druid warrior teams up with a sexy cyborg to find an unearthly treasure beyond imagining!"

Sometimes these things are easily guessable and predictable, from such buzzlines and genre descriptions. (Or the back cover description of a novel).

There's also the time-honored "X meets Y" formulation.

"It's BUFFY meets DEADWOOD."

"It's GOSSIP GIRL with elves and fairies!"

"It's THE SOPRANOS--in space!"

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

To be fair, though, I do remember arguing about Firefly with a friend who kept demanding to know what the crew's "mission" was, as though he couldn't get invested in the show and its characters unless they were defending the galaxy or fighting to overthrow an evil empire

Well there was the Alliance. I'm sure Mal and crew would have been happy to overthrow it. But the Alliance wasn't so much 'evil empire' as 'bloated bureaucracy'.

 

[Icemizer]

Journeyman would have been a good ride for at least one more season.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, you don't need to tell every viewer everything at once. Note that the opening spiel of STAR TREK ("These are the voyages," etc.) doesn't say anything about the United Federation of Planets, Starfleet, Vulcans, Klingons, the Prime Directive, warp drives, and so on.

If people are interested in the basic premise, they'll catch on to the rest in time. If not, force-feeding them all those details probably don't matter.

In the beginning, you just need to sketch things in broad strokes: "An enigmatic druid warrior teams up with a sexy cyborg to find an unearthly treasure beyond imagining!"

Sometimes these things are easily guessable and predictable, from such buzzlines and genre descriptions. (Or the back cover description of a novel).

There's also the time-honored "X meets Y" formulation.

"It's BUFFY meets DEADWOOD."

"It's GOSSIP GIRL with elves and fairies!"

"It's THE SOPRANOS--in space!"

Firefly: It's Stagecoach meets Star Wars!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

As for Firefly, my current theory is that most of Joss Whedon's failures stem from an inability on his part to create a succinct sales pitch for his own work. After all, people tend to love all of his stuff. The difference between his successful & unsuccessful work is that the successful stuff can usually be summed up in one sentence.
Angel-- It's about a vampire who runs his own paranomal private detective agency.
The Avengers-- It's a bunch of superheroes.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer-- It's in the frickin' title!

Firefly - Western in Space, that's what went around and why Firefly was dismissed by so many initially. I really wish the internet archive had a TrekBBS snapsot when Firefly premiered. A lot of people didn't give it a chance based on that.

 

[bigdaddy]

I always wondered about if FOX left Sliders alone and let the show run normally without any meddling. Would it go on for more than five seasons with all of the original actors. It may mean Jerry O'Connell wouldn't have showed up on Jerry Maguire, and that John Rhys-Davies wouldn't have been in the Lord of the Ring movies. I don't know if a more successful run would prevent Sabrina Lloyd from being part of the cast on Numb3rs which would have been years away.

Sabrina Lloyd was on the much bigger cult hit Sports Night, which she would have never been on if she was still doing Sliders.

However Numbers was one 10 years after Sliders, and it doesn't seem she stayed with that show anyways.

I really wish the internet archive had a TrekBBS snapsot when Firefly premiered. A lot of people didn't give it a chance based on that.

The good old days.

And Arrested Development is getting a movie anyways, the Netflix new season is like "ACT 1" for the movie. If it's popular we will get more seasons / movies.

 

[lennier1]

Imagine what could've been if they had given Earth: Final Conflict a second season instead turning it into some worthless piece of crap that only kept some minor details?

As for Firefly, I actually liked it exactly because it filled the void left by childhood memories of shows like Saber Rider, Galaxy Rangers and Bravestarr.

 

[jayceee]

Imagine what could've been if they had given Earth: Final Conflict a second season instead turning it into some worthless piece of crap that only kept some minor details?

Awhile ago I was watching season 5 of Earth: Final Conflict. It seemed like a completely different tv show, than the previous seasons. No taelons.

(Besides the first and fifth seasons, I haven't really watched the other seasons, other than some random episodes).

 

[lennier1]

Imagine what could've been if they had given Earth: Final Conflict a second season instead turning it into some worthless piece of crap that only kept some minor details?

Awhile ago I was watching season 5 of Earth: Final Conflict. It seemed like a completely different tv show, than the previous seasons. No taelons.

(Besides the first and fifth seasons, I haven't really watched the other seasons, other than some random episodes).

They basically made it worse with every season because they tried to "fix" what didn't need fixing.

At the end of season 4 the showrunners merged the Taelons with a competing alien race to get those space vampires (failed attempt to merge two offshoots of an ancestral race back together). That's when they flushed even the last reasons to be still watching that train wreck down the drain.
Guess after the terrible seasons 2-4 they wanted to create something so bad, it actually made the previous ones seem almost bearable.

 

[the G-man]

If Bosom Buddies had stayed on the air, would Tom Hanks be one of those guys like Michael J Fox or Ted danson with a few hit movies but a big TV career?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ If that show had lasted longer, Hanks would have probably left. His film career was already starting to take off, amirite? Famous actors like him rarely do TV for long.