"Future's End" is my favorite episode of Voyager, and I've really thought of it as Voyager's "Best Of Both World's".
My first voyage with Voyager
- Thread starter Qutluch
- Start date
Despite a lot of great scenes, there's something about Future's End that bugs me every time I watch it. And I'm not quite sure what. Sometimes I feel it doesn't work coming in the middle of a run, and might have been better as a season finale. And though I think they're good in roles, I'm a bit meh about Silverman and Begley. Though I did like the joke of real-life eco warrior being this hi-tech villain 
These were the thirtieth anniversary episodes. I assumed they played them as close to the anniversary as logistically possible. Ditto with Trials and tribblelations.
I just had a discussion with Shatnertage about "Future's End" which he hated. He felt it that it could have been done differently. I stole this from his post:
"In the late 1960s, a young producer with a police show to his credit is out hiking at Vasquez Rocks. A small alien ship crash lands. It has no inhabitants, and YP is able to figure out how to use the only component that is salvageable: a time scanner. Scanning forward a few hundred years, he sees starships buzzing across the galaxy, and gets the idea for a revolutionary television show, set in the far future, showing just that.
Fast forward to 1996. He's still making TV shows, but he's running out of ideas. Somehow he's able to TECH the TECH to pull members of Voyager's crew back through time and space. Let's say it's Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, and Torres, with Chipotle and Paris back on board, trying to TECH the TECH to figure out where the others went.
In 1996, the producer starts pumping the Voyager 4 for ideas. Then he makes them go to a business lunch--cue smarmy Hollywood agent/tv exec stereotypes. You can take it to a whole meta-level, and have the Hollywood execs say that the real adventures of Voyager aren't good enough--you need to sex them up.
Meanwhile, Voyager discovers that the Producer opened a subspace chroniton rift that, if not sealed, will destroy the entire sector. Chipotle is able to TECH the TECH, and the V4 vanish in the middle of a dramatic studio meeting. Final shot is the studio greenlighting a pilot for a new show based on those fantastic special effects.
Done right, it's a tongue-in-cheek tribute to LA's entertainment culture and the show itself. "
Personally, I love most episodes where the characters are off the ship, but I do see some of his points. (Go check out his thread for the whole review)! As for Shantertage's revised idea...I do think that his whole idea could have been fun because they would have been able to drop the 4th wall, and that usually makes for a good episode. I forget which episode in DS9 that they did that, but I remember I laughed like hell!
"In the late 1960s, a young producer with a police show to his credit is out hiking at Vasquez Rocks. A small alien ship crash lands. It has no inhabitants, and YP is able to figure out how to use the only component that is salvageable: a time scanner. Scanning forward a few hundred years, he sees starships buzzing across the galaxy, and gets the idea for a revolutionary television show, set in the far future, showing just that.
Fast forward to 1996. He's still making TV shows, but he's running out of ideas. Somehow he's able to TECH the TECH to pull members of Voyager's crew back through time and space. Let's say it's Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, and Torres, with Chipotle and Paris back on board, trying to TECH the TECH to figure out where the others went.
In 1996, the producer starts pumping the Voyager 4 for ideas. Then he makes them go to a business lunch--cue smarmy Hollywood agent/tv exec stereotypes. You can take it to a whole meta-level, and have the Hollywood execs say that the real adventures of Voyager aren't good enough--you need to sex them up.
Meanwhile, Voyager discovers that the Producer opened a subspace chroniton rift that, if not sealed, will destroy the entire sector. Chipotle is able to TECH the TECH, and the V4 vanish in the middle of a dramatic studio meeting. Final shot is the studio greenlighting a pilot for a new show based on those fantastic special effects.
Done right, it's a tongue-in-cheek tribute to LA's entertainment culture and the show itself. "
Personally, I love most episodes where the characters are off the ship, but I do see some of his points. (Go check out his thread for the whole review)! As for Shantertage's revised idea...I do think that his whole idea could have been fun because they would have been able to drop the 4th wall, and that usually makes for a good episode. I forget which episode in DS9 that they did that, but I remember I laughed like hell!
Stargate already did that episode. Wormhole Xtreme.
Warlord
On no, a “Neelix” version of Risa…with Kim and Paris making additions…. How cheesy? I was too happy when Janeway called them to the bridge. I am not sure how much more of Neelix’s feet I could take!!
VOY beams some aliens aboard who almost died in a crash, and one of them takes Kes’ body over. “Kes” helps the two aliens overthrow Janeway and stole a craft. An official representative of the Ilari beams onto VOY and explains the situation to the crew. Tieran “Kes’ bodysnatcher” is trying to kill members of the government in Autarch. Kes makes a great creepy fella. Lien’s acting was superb; a very different perspective then Kes!
Why would a warlord want servants who cover their faces? I think security over-rules subservience. Tieran uses Kes’ telepathic capabilities to tap into Tuvok’s mind. Tieran tries to seduce Tuvok in Kes’ body, and we even get to see a very disturbing kiss. There is an interesting scene where we see Tieran and Kes as two separate bodies fighting against each other within each other (if that makes sense). They were arguing back and forth over who was going to overpower who. The Tieran “Kes” introduces her/his new husband and indicates that they would be a threesome with his previous wife. At the engagement party Janeway and crew overtake the “bad guys” and set Kes free. Kes figures out that Tieran went into a different body and she actually kills his mind/him.
This was a weird episode. I don’t think I acutally liked it that much; at least not the story line. Lien’s acting was great though (it is Lien right?). Maybe, it was just a tough act to follow after Future's End. Those two were so great this one just seemed a bit off.
Favorite part: Lien’s acting.
Least favorite part: Body-snatching; it is just rude!
On no, a “Neelix” version of Risa…with Kim and Paris making additions…. How cheesy? I was too happy when Janeway called them to the bridge. I am not sure how much more of Neelix’s feet I could take!!
VOY beams some aliens aboard who almost died in a crash, and one of them takes Kes’ body over. “Kes” helps the two aliens overthrow Janeway and stole a craft. An official representative of the Ilari beams onto VOY and explains the situation to the crew. Tieran “Kes’ bodysnatcher” is trying to kill members of the government in Autarch. Kes makes a great creepy fella. Lien’s acting was superb; a very different perspective then Kes!
Why would a warlord want servants who cover their faces? I think security over-rules subservience. Tieran uses Kes’ telepathic capabilities to tap into Tuvok’s mind. Tieran tries to seduce Tuvok in Kes’ body, and we even get to see a very disturbing kiss. There is an interesting scene where we see Tieran and Kes as two separate bodies fighting against each other within each other (if that makes sense). They were arguing back and forth over who was going to overpower who. The Tieran “Kes” introduces her/his new husband and indicates that they would be a threesome with his previous wife. At the engagement party Janeway and crew overtake the “bad guys” and set Kes free. Kes figures out that Tieran went into a different body and she actually kills his mind/him.
This was a weird episode. I don’t think I acutally liked it that much; at least not the story line. Lien’s acting was great though (it is Lien right?). Maybe, it was just a tough act to follow after Future's End. Those two were so great this one just seemed a bit off.
Favorite part: Lien’s acting.
Least favorite part: Body-snatching; it is just rude!
Warlord was really a cheesy episode in so many ways. But yes, Jennifer Lien sure did put her all into her alternate role and really carried the episode. Favorite part, possessed Kes dumping Neelix's stalkerish and controlling self and when Kes gets control back she just goes with it. 
Warlord seems to diminish with repeat viewings for me. I like Lien a lot and think she does best she can with a pretty bad script.
Oh, I'd forgotten about shatnertage's alt FE too. Would have preferred
I watched Stargate's 1969 recently and would have liked a time travel ep like that on VOY.
Oh, I'd forgotten about shatnertage's alt FE too. Would have preferred
I watched Stargate's 1969 recently and would have liked a time travel ep like that on VOY.
The bit where "kes" says to Tuvok "you want her, she's been inside you mind, she knows you want her and she's too polite to call you on it, but we could have a fantastic time together." (or sentiments to that effect) was totally a set up for a pon far episode.
He's been married to the same woman for decades, and isn't going to see her for decades still, boffing a creature with a 9 year life expectancy would be like a self cleaning affair, if they didn't mind meld during sex and share souls while they share bodies... Which really makes you consider that Vulcans during Archers time were just having halfsex if they didn't have a telepathic component attached to their coitus.
Can Vulcans telepathically erase sections of their own memory to hide affairs from their spouse?
I wonder if he ever bothered to tell the wife to get checked for the Space syphilis he discovered he was riddled with in Flashback.
Hmm?
The last moments of Lon Suders life?
Did his syphilis flare up?
That would be a fantastic four second clip to add to a special edition of Basics Part II.
Lon trying to save the girl falling off a cliff.
He's been married to the same woman for decades, and isn't going to see her for decades still, boffing a creature with a 9 year life expectancy would be like a self cleaning affair, if they didn't mind meld during sex and share souls while they share bodies... Which really makes you consider that Vulcans during Archers time were just having halfsex if they didn't have a telepathic component attached to their coitus.
Can Vulcans telepathically erase sections of their own memory to hide affairs from their spouse?
I wonder if he ever bothered to tell the wife to get checked for the Space syphilis he discovered he was riddled with in Flashback.
Hmm?
The last moments of Lon Suders life?
Did his syphilis flare up?
That would be a fantastic four second clip to add to a special edition of Basics Part II.
Lon trying to save the girl falling off a cliff.
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Warlord Kes was great!
Now what if they had dressed her like this through the whole series.. she might have given Wang more of a throw down when it came to the axe.
If I'd been Lien I'd be asking for a bit of Warlord to have stuck in the Kes character, give her some edge.
Less Tinkerbelle, more Captain Hook!
Now what if they had dressed her like this through the whole series.. she might have given Wang more of a throw down when it came to the axe.
If I'd been Lien I'd be asking for a bit of Warlord to have stuck in the Kes character, give her some edge.
Less Tinkerbelle, more Captain Hook!
Okay Guy, you finally made me laugh out loud more than you made me cringe. Hat is off to you ...
Otherwise, I like Warlord for the fact that Kes finally gives Neelix the boot. 'Twas a long time comin', babe...
Tuvok going for Kes is even stupider than Tom going for her considering how old Tuvok must be.. and a lot wiser than Tom.
Whatever sublimated feelings he may have had, Tuvok might have been a bit wary after Cold Fire. A spurned Kes would be a terrible thing to behold
He had a spurned Neelix inside him once, I don't think that sort of unfettered rejection she dolled out repeatedly ever gets out of ones craw, unless a lad can Cinderella his way into her gusset to prove her first impressions wrong.
A truly enlightened person knows that being right when she is wrong is way more important than an orgasm.
AKA: The selfcockblock.
The Q and the Grey
Q shows up in Janeway’s room in a cheesy red robe with red satin-heart-shaped-bed! Love it that he called her Kathy, and changed her clothes into a satin night-gown. Q has chosen Janeway to be the mother of his child? What a great opening teaser! Several great lines!
Q takes Janeway’s denial of his lust as her playing hard ball. When Janeway reports Q’s presence on the ship to Chakotay he almost looked jealous, especially when she told him about the “personal request”. Q bugs Paris and Kim for help on pursuing Janeway. (I love it that there was a guy in a “banana hammock” in the background when Q went into the holodeck program to get love advice on Kathy)! [/SIZE]
Janeway has a new puppy! (My first thought, please don’t send the puppy away)! Why couldn’t she have kept the little guy, and spurned Q at the same time? The she-Q comes aboard and accuses Q of infidelity, or something like that. Lady Q accuses Mr. Q of being a 2-timing toad! Love it!
Q takes Janeway off the bridge into a “Civil War-ish-era” in full costume and setting! So awesome! What Q really wants is to end the Civil War by mating with Janeway. He thinks that mating will bring a new breed of Q, and an infusion of new blood/humanity. While I find this episode absolutely hysterical the premise is a bit off. Couldn’t Q just take Janeway’s DNA and make them a baby without Janeway really having to “do” anything? Also, wouldn’t Janeway want to take him up on his offer it was going to end the Q’s Civil War.? All she needs to agree to; is to be an egg donor. She could send her whole ship home; all for a little DNA. Her whole ships benefit or her pride? Why not at least bargain with him to see if another female on the ship would be willing to donate her DNA?
On a side note, I like the actor that plays “Q”, but I don’t think Q should have grey hair, and since he is this omnipotent shouldn’t he be better looking?
I have to say, I had high hopes for this episode. I really enjoy Q! I was not let down! There were some great one-liners and the dialogue between Q and Janeway was fantastic! However, the whole premise is a bit off. Q didn’t need to mate with Janeway. If he really thought a new line of Q’s would solve the conflict all he had to do was get someone to be a DNA donor. Couldn’t he just snap his fingers and make the baby? I feel like a line about just needing human DNA would have solved the plot holes.
Favorite part: Q: “Is it the tattoo? Cause mine is bigger!!” All the 1-liners were excellent; I laughed so hard!
Least favorite part: Why didn’t Janeway go for it, or at least bargain and ask if any other female on the ship would donate her DNA to send the whole ship home. Also, if the Q powers were not working how did the crew and female Q change into costume?
Q shows up in Janeway’s room in a cheesy red robe with red satin-heart-shaped-bed! Love it that he called her Kathy, and changed her clothes into a satin night-gown. Q has chosen Janeway to be the mother of his child? What a great opening teaser! Several great lines!
Q takes Janeway’s denial of his lust as her playing hard ball. When Janeway reports Q’s presence on the ship to Chakotay he almost looked jealous, especially when she told him about the “personal request”. Q bugs Paris and Kim for help on pursuing Janeway. (I love it that there was a guy in a “banana hammock” in the background when Q went into the holodeck program to get love advice on Kathy)! [/SIZE]
Janeway has a new puppy! (My first thought, please don’t send the puppy away)! Why couldn’t she have kept the little guy, and spurned Q at the same time? The she-Q comes aboard and accuses Q of infidelity, or something like that. Lady Q accuses Mr. Q of being a 2-timing toad! Love it!
Q takes Janeway off the bridge into a “Civil War-ish-era” in full costume and setting! So awesome! What Q really wants is to end the Civil War by mating with Janeway. He thinks that mating will bring a new breed of Q, and an infusion of new blood/humanity. While I find this episode absolutely hysterical the premise is a bit off. Couldn’t Q just take Janeway’s DNA and make them a baby without Janeway really having to “do” anything? Also, wouldn’t Janeway want to take him up on his offer it was going to end the Q’s Civil War.? All she needs to agree to; is to be an egg donor. She could send her whole ship home; all for a little DNA. Her whole ships benefit or her pride? Why not at least bargain with him to see if another female on the ship would be willing to donate her DNA?
On a side note, I like the actor that plays “Q”, but I don’t think Q should have grey hair, and since he is this omnipotent shouldn’t he be better looking?
I have to say, I had high hopes for this episode. I really enjoy Q! I was not let down! There were some great one-liners and the dialogue between Q and Janeway was fantastic! However, the whole premise is a bit off. Q didn’t need to mate with Janeway. If he really thought a new line of Q’s would solve the conflict all he had to do was get someone to be a DNA donor. Couldn’t he just snap his fingers and make the baby? I feel like a line about just needing human DNA would have solved the plot holes.
Favorite part: Q: “Is it the tattoo? Cause mine is bigger!!” All the 1-liners were excellent; I laughed so hard!
Least favorite part: Why didn’t Janeway go for it, or at least bargain and ask if any other female on the ship would donate her DNA to send the whole ship home. Also, if the Q powers were not working how did the crew and female Q change into costume?
Personally I consider the Q and the Grey to be one of the worst Q episodes out there. Sure John de Lancie is brilliantly entertaining as always, and definitely brings the best out of the material that's there, but it really was fundamentally lacking.
Really the concept of Q trying to force himself on Janeway... is just dumb and doesn't make sense at all. They're in a civil war, apparently because Q took up Quinn's pro-suicide banner and... the Q want to kill him now.. okay. That's dubious enough on it's own, especially when there is precedent to just exile people for this kind of crap.
So Q one ups blatantly trying to seduce Janeway as chauvinistically as possible, by kidnapping her and bringing her to Qland in the classic damsel in distress role. Then Susie Q flies them into a super nova because that... whatever... they get civil war guns, but they're really Q guns and kill everyone. Susie Q and Q have a baby and that makes everyone happy...
..what?
Really the Q have been reduced at this point to a cheesy dysfunctional sitcom family now and it gets even worse in their next episode.
Really the concept of Q trying to force himself on Janeway... is just dumb and doesn't make sense at all. They're in a civil war, apparently because Q took up Quinn's pro-suicide banner and... the Q want to kill him now.. okay. That's dubious enough on it's own, especially when there is precedent to just exile people for this kind of crap.
So Q one ups blatantly trying to seduce Janeway as chauvinistically as possible, by kidnapping her and bringing her to Qland in the classic damsel in distress role. Then Susie Q flies them into a super nova because that... whatever... they get civil war guns, but they're really Q guns and kill everyone. Susie Q and Q have a baby and that makes everyone happy...
..what?
Really the Q have been reduced at this point to a cheesy dysfunctional sitcom family now and it gets even worse in their next episode.
The worst part to me was the Civil War motif, very embarrassing to watch.
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