Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[Takeru]

But this to me sums it up perfectly, there is no reason why these 2 shots should be in any way dissimilar.

Spoiler: Season One

Spoiler: Season Two

Wow, the second shot looks horrible, the people who did that are hacks, period. There is absolutely no excuse for it looking so much worse, it's literally the same shot. What were they thinking?

 

[MickJo1701]

Actually, it's Angel One:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/observations/thearsenaloffreedom.htm

They used the same planet in both episodes, just like they where in SD. But Angel One did come first

 

[raffie]

The exterior shots are notably worst in quality from the CBS-D shots.

Whereas the CBS-D team took 'remain true to the original look and feel' as recreate the shots and make them look amazing while remaining true to the look of the original shot, HTV seems to have sadly understood that as 'scan in the film, done'.

 

[Dac]

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/160435

I quickly pasted in the original shot (or as close as I could get from TrekCore's SD screencaps. It's a few seconds off) literally upscaled (resized) to match the HD version as closely as possible.

Sure, the original has some VHS fuzz on it, but is it me or is there sharper edges/more "realistic" contrast and overall detail (minus the fuzz of course) than the new HD version?

Most of the other shots can be explained away via preference for matching the original, but why it looks this bad is just incomprehensible to me. :S

 

[raffie]

Kind of looks like a first test, showing the scan without any image processing, rather than the final product to me.

 

[TheSeeker]

Well I'm going to the Season 2 event on Thursday so I guess I'll see how it looks in motion. I'm hopeful that the stills are somewhat misleading.

 

[MickJo1701]

Anyone have an opinion on this shot? It gets pointed out in the TrekCore review but as CGI replacement shots for missing model elements go its the best we've seen produced so far. I think its a good attempt, the ship looks sharp, the bussard collector and warp grilles look much better than anything HTV did with the actual model.

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images_s2review/wheresilence_probe.jpg

 

[Tosk]

I don't hate it, but it stands out very clearly as CGI...if only for the fact that a lot of the other Enterprise shots seems to be sub-par. No consistency. That planet shot a few posts above is a shocker.

 

[FrontierTrek]

Anyone have an opinion on this shot? It gets pointed out in the TrekCore review but as CGI replacement shots for missing model elements go its the best we've seen produced so far. I think its a good attempt, the ship looks sharp, the bussard collector and warp grilles look much better than anything HTV did with the actual model.

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images_s2review/wheresilence_probe.jpg

It is indeed a CGI replacement - the original matte was lost, but when you see the shot in motion the compositing seemed a bit rushed: No grain, no real shadow detail or texture. Thankfully, as far as CG replacements go, it was an isolated incident in Season 2

 

[gaghyogi49]

Actually, it's Angel One:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/observations/thearsenaloffreedom.htm

They used the same planet in both episodes, just like they where in SD. But Angel One did come first

Nope, check the article, there are differences between the two planets. Just compare the two HD screenshots seen in the article.

 

[MickJo1701]

Actually, it's Angel One:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/observations/thearsenaloffreedom.htm

They used the same planet in both episodes, just like they where in SD. But Angel One did come first

Nope, check the article, there are differences between the two planets. Just compare the two HD screenshots seen in the article.

Ahhh Gotcha! sharper eye than me Updated the original post too.

 

[Jefferies]

Spoiler: Season Two

I cannot believe this is a screengrab from the actual finished product? Tell me you messed with this shot in photoshop or something like that? How dare these hacks butcher this show like this? These people had a million dollar budget and this is the result??? Is this some kind of sick joke? CBS was conned out of their money if this screenshot is for real. God how could this happen after the masterful work we saw in season 1??? They actually managed to downgrade the show from what we had on the DVDs. HTV Illuminate = Epic Fail!

I'm not sure I will be able to watch Season 2 remastered in blu ray if this is the kind of things we get to see. It will be too jarring. The DVDs might be blurry but at least they are consistant and don't rip you out of the experience by lighting up the Enterprise like a Christmas tree ornament.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

It is indeed a CGI replacement - the original matte was lost, but when you see the shot in motion the compositing seemed a bit rushed: No grain, no real shadow detail or texture. Thankfully, as far as CG replacements go, it was an isolated incident in Season 2

So this is the only one you spotted? That's good.

Now we need you to go through each episode and check the 7.1 audio to make sure each channel is discrete. Feel up to it?

 

[davejames]

Yeah I don't have a problem with the ship being more brightly lit in these shots (I really loved that look in TSFS, as seen here: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0054.jpg) but I AM a bit perplexed at the lack of detail and sharpness in some of them.

Going back to the original source material, you'd think they'd all be as clear and sharp as can be.

 

[Shazam!]

Spoiler: Season Two

LOLOLOL

 

[Jaro Stun]

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/160435

I quickly pasted in the original shot (or as close as I could get from TrekCore's SD screencaps. It's a few seconds off) literally upscaled (resized) to match the HD version as closely as possible.

Sure, the original has some VHS fuzz on it, but is it me or is there sharper edges/more "realistic" contrast and overall detail (minus the fuzz of course) than the new HD version?

Most of the other shots can be explained away via preference for matching the original, but why it looks this bad is just incomprehensible to me. :S

I do not know wtf they thought when they made this shot! I'm sorry to say that but the Enterprise from DVD version looks BETTER.

Was this due to them not caring, not having time, saving sh..load of money pr WHAT? This is inexcusable...

As we get more and more screenshots, I really don't understand. For this shot, not even the story of them keeping true to original style (Legato/Curry) holds up. In light of this shot (and quite a lot of others) it looks like a story made up on last minute to calm down the crowd.

Given that they made some good VFX as well it looks to me like either:
- rushed job to meet deadlines
- significant cost savings

It is so disappointing. This project started so well. But as they say - if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I'm loosing faith in this project with every new VFX cap and it pains me to even think of that the worst season (S1) may be in the end the best looking of all 7.

The issue is, everybody will buy it anyway, so why not to save some bucks on VFX here and there...right CBS / HTV? Right?

 

[throwback]

A problem I am picking up on, and that doesn't seem confined to that ship, is that the Season 2 team weren't able to faithfully render the color of the ships. The Repulse has an odd color, and the Enterprise has an odd color.

As for that CGI shot, I feel instinctual that the lettering on the hull is off. There is, I feel, something wrong with the first E and the placement of letters. I am sorry I am not clearer.

 

[Beatnik]

It seems that there's pretty firm agreement now that the exterior shots by HTV in Season 2 don't match up to the quality that CBS-D put out in Season 1 (and I agree). I think it's in their best interest to address this (somehow) in seasons 4 and 6.

That said, episodes are more than exterior shots; they're - what - 10% of an episode, if that?

Everything else about season 2 seems gravy. All of the interior shots look fantastic, as far as I can tell. Color and resolution looks as good as we can ask for. Let's assume no major audio issues. Plus we get the extended Measure of a Man, gag reel, the cast roundtable, etc, etc.

It sucks that the exterior stuff doesn't match up - it really does. But it's still friggin TNG, a show many of us grew up with, in HD!! The stories, dialogue, characters are all still here, which is why we keep watching it, right??

 

[Jefferies]

I do not know wtf they thought when they made this shot! I'm sorry to say that but the Enterprise from DVD version looks BETTER.

Was this due to them not caring, not having time, saving sh..load of money pr WHAT? This is inexcusable...

As we get more and more screenshots, I really don't understand. For this shot, not even the story of them keeping true to original style (Legato/Curry) holds up. In light of this shot (and quite a lot of others) it looks like a story made up on last minute to calm down the crowd.

Given that they made some good VFX as well it looks to me like either:
- rushed job to meet deadlines
- significant cost savings

It is so disappointing. This project started so well. But as they say - if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I'm loosing faith in this project with every new VFX cap and it pains me to even think of that the worst season (S1) may be in the end the best looking of all 7.

The issue is, everybody will buy it anyway, so why not to save some bucks on VFX here and there...right CBS / HTV? Right?

I agree, it's starting to look like something dodgy is going on here. At first I was not that phased but with the building evidence the current rationalisations are looking less and less credible. Given your suggestion, how likely would it be in this kind of industry that a company would significantly cut the budget of a product that had worked out really well and was returning a good profit (this is what we have been led to believe about TNG Remastered so far)? Why pour 9 million dollars into Season 1, which seemed like a real gamble, only to slash the budget once you have confirmed that the investment is sound?

 

[Dac]

I think your jumping the gun a bit there Jaro. Yes, we have seen quite a few shots of a particularly poor quality, but there are quite a few shots which also look just fine, albeit not spectacular. Plus, there are far far more shots we haven't seen from this release than have.

Add to the fact that Season 3 is being made by another entity entirely, the same folks who did Season 1 which you seem to love I don't think its fair to say the entire project is going to be sub par.

Yes, it means waiting/spending a lot of money but we can wait and see what Season 3 will look like. If it does/doesn't look any better then we can call judgement on any timing/money issues that may be at play. Then we can see what HTV/someone else does with Season 4 to see if they've learnt from their mistakes/had more time to work on it.

When we see multiple examples of work by the two companies, then I think we can call judgement on the overall remastering project. As it currently stands, we can only say that season 2 has a significant portion of visual effects shots that are of a sub standard quality in comparison with the first season. Casting a shadow over the whole project is, at this point, unfair.