What If It All Went Nu?

[Temis the Vorta]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Abrams' master plan is to do three movies on the assumption that his universe re-merges with the original by the time he's done and well before the 24th C, with no one the wiser that the past was "wrong." Except for Uhura and the Spocks of course, and everyone they tell.

^ The Mirror Universe is different. It's not an alternate timeline created by time travel; it always existed. It's a completely separate universe. The same people's births and lives are simultaneously no more, and no less, likely to happen in the MU than they are in any other.

The Abrams U could be analogous to the MU, a parallel universe that always existed. If there are two, then why stop there? why not three? Why not three quadrillion? it's easier to envision the Abrams U as being one of many parallel universes that naturally exist than start worrying about butterfly effects.

But dramatic logic overrides everything, which is why I think the two universes really are being treated as different from the MU, and that they will merge together before Abrams is done.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Based solely on the known events of the first film I don't see why the TNG crew as individuals would necessarily be that different, though of course whether they all end up together and what their ship would look like have probably been altered. That said, it's certainly possible that differences could exist, especially if any of them had ancestors on any of the ships shown in the first film.

The existence of a human being depends on a very specific set of circumstances. Change any one of these things and you will greatly alter history, such that it is extremely unlikely that this same person will exist in the same way. Remember: butterfly effect.

Let's take Picard, for example. The reason he is who he is, is because his parents met at a very specific time, married, produced him and Robert, etc. Now it is true that the divergence of timelines took place long before either of these men were born. Their parents could have been alive at the time, but let's assume they weren't. Who's to say that any of the Picard grandparents even met in the Abramsverse? Nero's attack on Earth could have delayed Grandpa's shuttle flight, so that he never meets Grandma, etc. Now do you see what can happen?

And even if the Picard ancestors all meet and produce the children they originally did, who's to say they'll be the same? Perhaps in the new timeline, some of these couples decide to have children earlier (i.e. nuChekov) or later. Perhaps they have daughters instead of sons. Etc. etc.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

^ The Mirror Universe is different. It's not an alternate timeline created by time travel; it always existed. It's a completely separate universe. The same people's births and lives are simultaneously no more, and no less, likely to happen in the MU than they are in any other.

But, seriously, the odds that a completely different universe would bring an Enterprise with the same crew members, at the same ranks, to the same planet to negotiate with the same alien leader during the same cosmic storm doesn't kind of blow the idea that different circumstances lead to different outcomes out of the water?

I'm just saying there's room to fudge here . . . .

The Many Worlds hypothesis makes the most sense since it explains any combination of qualities, no matter how unlikely, as being mandatory for at least one universe. And if the cameras happen to be pointed at a conveniently arranged universe instead of the one where everything is underwater or dinosaurs are intelligent or it rains donuts, then that's hardly the writers' fault.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Come to think of it, the MU could Be an offshoot universe too. Edith Keeler's at fault there.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It could be, but I doubt it. Weren't the opening credits of 'In a Mirror, Darkly' implying that the divergence occurred during, or roughly equivalent to, World War I?

Besides, if the altered reality in "City..." was the Mirror timeline, then wouldn't Kirk and crew have detected the ISS Enterprise in orbit? There was NOTHING up there when they came back through the Guardian.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Someone new should make NewNuTrek, and in it, Enterprise - D should be 179,000,472 m long. Since it's all make believe, it doesn't matter. And btw, it should be able to destroy an entire solar system with one shot and travel between galaxies in mere minutes.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

What if, Gods forbid, they decided to redo the entire Prime Universe with the Alternate One created by Nu-Trek? How do you think each series would differ?

What would Nu-Picard be like commanding the 1613m Enterprise-D (going by the stupidly upgraded scaling of the Nu-Enterprise)? Who would still be on his crew? Who would be different?

Or on DS9? Or Voyager?

ENT is exempt as the timeline changes occured well after 2155.

Who cares, I wouldn't give my money to it

 

[Dukhat]

Who cares, I wouldn't give my money to it

If it were a television show, then you wouldn't have to give your money to it because it would be free. Whether you choose to watch it or not is a different story.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Someone new should make NewNuTrek

If it stars Robin Williams it could be NaNuNaNu Trek.

 

[Count Zero]

What if, Gods forbid, they decided to redo the entire Prime Universe with the Alternate One created by Nu-Trek? How do you think each series would differ?

What would Nu-Picard be like commanding the 1613m Enterprise-D (going by the stupidly upgraded scaling of the Nu-Enterprise)? Who would still be on his crew? Who would be different?

Or on DS9? Or Voyager?

ENT is exempt as the timeline changes occured well after 2155.

Who cares, I wouldn't give my money to it

Then why did you respond in the thread? Seriously, on page two I asked people to get back on topic because it was turning into a discussion of the last movie instead of discussing the premise of the OP and things relating to that, and two pages later you come in with two passive-agressive posts in a row. If you aren't interested in the Abramsverse then ignore topics that relate to it. There aren't that many threads in this section that deal with it. Let's keep this a place where people can feel comfortable discussing all aspects of Trek and a place that is fun. Thanks in advance.

 

[Takeru]

And even if the Picard ancestors all meet and produce the children they originally did, who's to say they'll be the same? Perhaps in the new timeline, some of these couples decide to have children earlier (i.e. nuChekov) or later. Perhaps they have daughters instead of sons. Etc. etc.

NuTNG would recast the characters anyway, thereby altering the appearance, voice, mannerisms etc., does it really make a difference at that point if they're genetically the same characters of if another sperm won the make Jean-Luc race or if he's 5 years older or younger?

 

[Lord Garth]

We don't have too much to work with, hopefully Star Trek Into Darkness will help change that, but I'll give it a try.

TNG: Some version of TNG probably happens. The Enterprise might look different and might even be more advanced but most of it should still be the same. The parts that could be different are the stories that involve the Klingons and the Romulans (depending on what the new films do with them) and the Borg, if they happen to appear earlier. In the new timeline there might not have been a battle at Nerendra III, depending upon how different the political situation is, and the "C" might've stayed in service right up until the "D" was commissioned.

DS9: The Prophets live in the past, present, and future. They're immune to changes in the timeline because they exist in all points everywhen. If linear reality changes around them, they'd still become instantly aware of what will happen because they're already there and they'll immediately have a new plan. Sisko would still exist or, if not, someone else from Earth -- or anywhere not of Bajor -- would still be created with the help of the Prophets. Said person will still go through a set of circumstances leading them to Bajor. Whether or not Wolf 359 would be what leads to it would be hard to say.

VOY: Would be the least affected. The Delta Quadrant is away from everything else that has happened, is happening, or will happen in the rest of Star Trek. At least until Starfleet is advanced enough to reach that quadrant on its own. For the sake of argument, let's say it wouldn't happen until a century after the series is set, as Q said in "Deathwish". I doubt New Trek will touch the Cardassians, so the Maquis situation wouldn't change.

 

[DonIago]

Maybe there are no Prophets in the alternate timeline.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

^ It could be, but I doubt it. Weren't the opening credits of 'In a Mirror, Darkly' implying that the divergence occurred during, or roughly equivalent to, World War I?

The credits were fun but since they contradicted my personal canon, I wrote them off almost immediately. However, it did imply a timeline divergence (well before WWI since there were sailing ships and even some kind of primitive raft) so it supports the overall idea of branching realities.

Besides, if the altered reality in "City..." was the Mirror timeline, then wouldn't Kirk and crew have detected the ISS Enterprise in orbit? There was NOTHING up there when they came back through the Guardian.

The ISS Enterprise was in another part of the galaxy at the time, oppressing some innocent alien world for fun and profit.

Mirror Universe credits - if I wanted to be picky, I could point out that the Terran Empire logo doesn't show up till the WWII footage.

[yt]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbsZRbwbJ4[/yt]

 

[F. King Daniel]

In the alternate reality, Guinan is in an insane asylum, jabbering about things being "all wrong" and "not the way it's supposed to be."

Ten Forward on the Enterprise is run by Picard's second choice for the post, temporally displaced former WWE wrestler Stone Cold Steve Austin.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

So, leaving aside the side issue of the MU, my hunch on how to best carry forward the idea of an alternate timeline in a TV series is to continue the idea that the characters are preteraturally aware that their timeline has diverged from what it should be and are working to somehow set it right.

Which isn't my first choice or my hundreth choice for a premise for a new TV series. It's best to just leave it to Abrams to re-merge the timelines and if he fails to do so, the TV series shold ignore the issue entirely.

Otherwise it's just a big boring reset button. TOS was recast in the movies for its PR value but none of the other series have that awareness and the characters are not as iconic, so let's just have a new cast of characters.

 

[grabthars hammer]

I suspect the NuFederation wouldn't have the Prime Federation's staying power with the premature death of Robau, resulting in an incalculable loss of decades of ass-kicking influence.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Let's see, Romulus is gone, Vulcans are emotional and fall in love easy, Uhura and Spock are lovers, cadets get promoted to captains and commanders.

They still drove cars in the 23rd century, humans are rude to each other...

Nothing's changed, why not?

Though I agree, they do have to find a new way to present Trek in order for the series to survive on TV.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I suspect the NuFederation wouldn't have the Prime Federation's staying power with the premature death of Robau, resulting in an incalculable loss of decades of ass-kicking influence.

Word up, yo.

Then again...the Romulans struck down Robau, who will now become more powerful than they could possibly imagine.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Let's see, Romulus is gone, Vulcans are emotional and fall in love easy, Uhura and Spock are lovers, cadets get promoted to captains and commanders.

They still drove cars in the 23rd century, humans are rude to each other...

Nothing's changed, why not?

Though I agree, they do have to find a new way to present Trek in order for the series to survive on TV.

Romulus is still there. It's Vulcan that's gone. Vulcans have always been emotional. (Spock especially), there was a spark between Spock and Uhura back in TOS, I'll give you the last one. Though McCoy is the only person who seems to go from cadet to (Lt) Commander. But being a doctor its not unusual.

Why wouldn't people drive cars in the 23rd Century and why would they stop being rude? Rude wasn't unknown in TOS. One might find examples in almost every episode.