VAN: In Tempest's Wake by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[RonG]

Not to take anything away from Dayton, as he's a favorite, but the very existence of ITW as a post-finale VAN story still irks me.

I know this sounds a bit naive, but the story has been told to completion - why must TPTB (Marketing) exploit it and the VAN readership? Wasn't this supposed to be TOS originally?

 

[ATimson]

I know this sounds a bit naive, but the story has been told to completion - why must TPTB (Marketing) exploit it and the VAN readership? Wasn't this supposed to be TOS originally?

Yes, it was. There's an argument for both labels, really.

Spoiler: Just in case...

Yes, it's focused on Kirk and Nogura, flashing back to Kirk and the Enterprise. But at the same time, it is about Vanguard, giving context for how some of their actions tied into events seen in the rest of the series.

I think that a Vanguard fan expecting something focused on those characters will be disappointed, and a TOS fan expecting an action-adventure story will be disappointed.

Disappointment for all!

 

[Judith Sisko]

I know this sounds a bit naive, but the story has been told to completion - why must TPTB (Marketing) exploit it and the VAN readership? Wasn't this supposed to be TOS originally?

Yes, it was. There's an argument for both labels, really.

Spoiler: Just in case...

Yes, it's focused on Kirk and Nogura, flashing back to Kirk and the Enterprise. But at the same time, it is about Vanguard, giving context for how some of their actions tied into events seen in the rest of the series.

I think that a Vanguard fan expecting something focused on those characters will be disappointed, and a TOS fan expecting an action-adventure story will be disappointed.

Disappointment for all!

Exactly!

 

[beamMe]

I know this sounds a bit naive, but the story has been told to completion - why must TPTB (Marketing) exploit it and the VAN readership? Wasn't this supposed to be TOS originally?

Yes, it was. There's an argument for both labels, really.

Spoiler: Just in case...

Yes, it's focused on Kirk and Nogura, flashing back to Kirk and the Enterprise. But at the same time, it is about Vanguard, giving context for how some of their actions tied into events seen in the rest of the series.

I think that a Vanguard fan expecting something focused on those characters will be disappointed, and a TOS fan expecting an action-adventure story will be disappointed.

Disappointment for all!

Exactly!

Oh, come on. The scenes between Kirk and Nogura alone are worth the read.

 

[RonG]

The comments by ATimson and Judith Sisko make me wonder what was the point of this story. Was it really to make *one* more "trip to the well" , as it were?

I'd much rather read another "full" Dayton Ward novel (with or without Kevin Dilmore), and leave a concluded story, well... concluded.

 

[Sho]

Dunno, I think another way to look at it is that the events in the Vanguard finale are of such in-universe historic importance that yes, looking at them from another angle may strike one as redundant, but on the other hand it's exactly the kind of thing that you want multiple angles of in the big picture. Just like important real world historic events are best understood via an intersection of multiple voices ... or if you don't want to go that deep, well, it's pretty optional. I just feel that it underscores the importance of the saga to give that option.

 

[RonG]

that's a valid point, of course, but IMHO the very existence of this e-book just underscores the involvement of Marketing in the creative process.

I've seen the VAN series called "lightning in a bottle" for many reasons, among them the fact that it had a defined beginning, middle and end - Mack, Ward, Dilmore and Palmieri developed the series, told their story/ies to the fullest and left on the highest note possible.

I don't recall any real dangling threads left by the finale, and having a look "from another angle" at events we've seen told / explored already plus labeling as part of the already-completed series, seems to me like a disservice to readers.

As I already posted, I would much rather have a new TOS novel by Ward, which would incorporate the events of ITW..

 

[beamMe]

that's a valid point, of course, but IMHO the very existence of this e-book just underscores the involvement of Marketing in the creative process.

I've seen the VAN series called "lightning in a bottle" for many reasons, among them the fact that it had a defined beginning, middle and end - Mack, Ward, Dilmore and Palmieri developed the series, told their story/ies to the fullest and left on the highest note possible.

I don't recall any real dangling threads left by the finale, and having a look "from another angle" at events we've seen told / explored already plus labeling as part of the already-completed series, seems to me like a disservice to readers.

As I already posted, I would much rather have a new TOS novel by Ward, which would incorporate the events of ITW..

A "disservice"?

Granted, In Tempest's Wake doesn't add much to the Vanguard story, but it certainly doesn't take anything away from it.
That it is very well written and integrates Vanguard even more into the old continuity and actually opens up the story for a future re-visitation makes it everything but a "disservice".

 

[RonG]

that's a valid point, of course, but IMHO the very existence of this e-book just underscores the involvement of Marketing in the creative process.

I've seen the VAN series called "lightning in a bottle" for many reasons, among them the fact that it had a defined beginning, middle and end - Mack, Ward, Dilmore and Palmieri developed the series, told their story/ies to the fullest and left on the highest note possible.

I don't recall any real dangling threads left by the finale, and having a look "from another angle" at events we've seen told / explored already plus labeling as part of the already-completed series, seems to me like a disservice to readers.

As I already posted, I would much rather have a new TOS novel by Ward, which would incorporate the events of ITW..

A "disservice"?

Granted, In Tempest's Wake doesn't add much to the Vanguard story, but it certainly doesn't take anything away from it.
That it is very well written and integrates Vanguard even more into the old continuity and actually opens up the story for a future re-visitation makes it everything but a "disservice".

Perhaps "disservice" is too strong a word. I'm not taking anything away from the story or from Ward, and would probably feel different about it if it would have been labeled as TOS as planned originally.

However, having a VAN story flat out starring Kirk is not how I would have liked the series "last entry" to be. To me, VAN ended the way it should have with Storming Heaven.

 

[beamMe]

that's a valid point, of course, but IMHO the very existence of this e-book just underscores the involvement of Marketing in the creative process.

I've seen the VAN series called "lightning in a bottle" for many reasons, among them the fact that it had a defined beginning, middle and end - Mack, Ward, Dilmore and Palmieri developed the series, told their story/ies to the fullest and left on the highest note possible.

I don't recall any real dangling threads left by the finale, and having a look "from another angle" at events we've seen told / explored already plus labeling as part of the already-completed series, seems to me like a disservice to readers.

As I already posted, I would much rather have a new TOS novel by Ward, which would incorporate the events of ITW..

A "disservice"?

Granted, In Tempest's Wake doesn't add much to the Vanguard story, but it certainly doesn't take anything away from it.
That it is very well written and integrates Vanguard even more into the old continuity and actually opens up the story for a future re-visitation makes it everything but a "disservice".

Perhaps "disservice" is too strong a word. I'm not taking anything away from the story or from Ward, and would probably feel different about it if it would have been labeled as TOS as planned originally.

However, having a VAN story flat out starring Kirk is not how I would have liked the series "last entry" to be. To me, VAN ended the way it should have with Storming Heaven.

The ending still stands. Most of In Tempest's Wake's framing story plays before the framing story of What Judgments Come and Storming Heaven. And the last chapter features one of Vanguards main characters with Kirk "only" tagging along because he's needed.

 

[RonG]

A "disservice"?

Granted, In Tempest's Wake doesn't add much to the Vanguard story, but it certainly doesn't take anything away from it.
That it is very well written and integrates Vanguard even more into the old continuity and actually opens up the story for a future re-visitation makes it everything but a "disservice".

Perhaps "disservice" is too strong a word. I'm not taking anything away from the story or from Ward, and would probably feel different about it if it would have been labeled as TOS as planned originally.

However, having a VAN story flat out starring Kirk is not how I would have liked the series "last entry" to be. To me, VAN ended the way it should have with Storming Heaven.

The ending still stands. Most of In Tempest's Wake's framing story plays before the framing story of What Judgments Come and Storming Heaven. And the last chapter features one of Vanguards main characters with Kirk "only" tagging along because he's needed.

As mentioned before, my gripe isn't with the story but with its labeling and "artificially" extending the VAN series with a post-finale entry...

I still don't like / support the change from the TOS label to VAN (not that I have anything to do about it - it's just my personal opinion)

 

[beamMe]

Perhaps "disservice" is too strong a word. I'm not taking anything away from the story or from Ward, and would probably feel different about it if it would have been labeled as TOS as planned originally.

However, having a VAN story flat out starring Kirk is not how I would have liked the series "last entry" to be. To me, VAN ended the way it should have with Storming Heaven.

The ending still stands. Most of In Tempest's Wake's framing story plays before the framing story of What Judgments Come and Storming Heaven. And the last chapter features one of Vanguards main characters with Kirk "only" tagging along because he's needed.

As mentioned before, my gripe isn't with the story but with its labeling and "artificially" extending the VAN series with a post-finale entry...

I still don't like / support the change from the TOS label to VAN (not that I have anything to do about it - it's just my personal opinion)

Sure it's your opinion, no need to point that out.

I don't care how it's labelled.
The important thing is that it's well written and that I was entertained by reading it.
It is, and I was.

 

[RonG]

The ending still stands. Most of In Tempest's Wake's framing story plays before the framing story of What Judgments Come and Storming Heaven. And the last chapter features one of Vanguards main characters with Kirk "only" tagging along because he's needed.

As mentioned before, my gripe isn't with the story but with its labeling and "artificially" extending the VAN series with a post-finale entry...

I still don't like / support the change from the TOS label to VAN (not that I have anything to do about it - it's just my personal opinion)

Sure it's your opinion, no need to point that out.

I don't care how it's labelled.
The important thing is that it's well written and that I was entertained by reading it.
It is, and I was.

To each his own, of course.

 

[Ronald Held]

Started and finished it today. Even though the novella was not strictly needed, I thought that it was above average. The candid conversations with Nogura were interesting and make me wonder if Kirk's discussion with him had a bearing in Kirk's promotion to COO. The Aldrin city section ties in nicely with certain events in the late 24th century.

 

[RonG]

Started and finished it today. Even though the novella was not strictly needed, I thought that it was above average. The candid conversations with Nogura were interesting and make me wonder if Kirk's discussion with him had a bearing in Kirk's promotion to COO. The Aldrin city section ties in nicely with certain events in the late 24th century.

If the novella "was not needed", why publish it, other than to make further use of the VAN brand?

I'm still on the fence about getting this, but it seems to me it could have been seamlessly incorporated into another TOS novel by Dayton.

 

[ronny]

I'm the harshest voter so far. I just didn't get into it.

I think someone farther up asked the question were they engaged with the story and the answer for them was yes. Unfortunately for me, I was not engaged. I loved Vanguard and think Dayton is a great writer but this just didn't work for me. I just felt there was no there there. For the most part the flash backs told scenes from a different perspective than we've seen before which is sometimes interesting but doesn't really add up to a story for me and the Kirk/Nagura scenes spent a lot of time just telling us the whole thing was a secret. Maybe it would have been different if I hadn't finished Storming Heaven the day before but that shouldn't make a difference.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

I wasn't engaged by this one either. It was like one of those end of season finales when a tv show is out of budget so they show a bunch of scenes from earlier episodes. I was hoping more of a telling of the legacy of Vanguard or maybe fill some open cracks but it was pretty much just expanding upon scenes in the series which the Enterprise was in, scenes that really didn't need to be expanded upon. The only REALLY interesting part to me was when Kirk and Nogura are in the Vanguard Vault in the moon and when Spock notes how quickly Starfleet buried information on Vanguard.

I think an aftermath story could have been told much better than this. That said, I'm glad Ward wrote it and glad I read it because of the few gems which were in it.

 

[CaptainDonovin]

I liked this one a lot. This was the tying up of loose ends that will end up bitting them in the end (in the Typhon Pact stories). I thought it was a well written story explaining how Starfleet tried to cover their butts. Very enjoyable.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

^But that explaination was already given in Paths of Disharmony.

 

[RonG]

I was also wondering about any loose ends from the VAN series (as I didn't think there were any..)

Could anyone spoil me?